Will we ever see Bow being used in 5v5 as often as Xbow / Frost ?

    • LuricWelter wrote:

      Captainrussia wrote:

      Aurin wrote:

      Its not just bow. There are a lot of weapons that just aren't very good for 5v5.
      but should every weapon be viable for 5v5 is the real question? And why?(might as well make all weapons do the same thing?)
      Every line of weapons should have at least 1 viable for 5v5.
      so we need to start complaining about daggers then?

      and with that logic - cant Badon be used for 5v5? (there is 5v5 HG and 5v5 GvG, both are 5v5 but are a little different)
    • After the recent patch there is no actual "meta" anymore.
      If you look at the recent week GvG board, we will see:
      Holy, Nature, Hammer, Mace, Quarterstaff being used.
      Also Axe, Sword, Spear and Daggers.
      Beside them we see Frost, Fire, Curse, Arcane and Crossbow appear quite often.

      Only Bow has no appearance in those logs.

      There is no "Meta" anymore.

      There is 1 Weapon line that need to bee fixed - Bow.

      @Retroman @PrintsKaspian
      CocaDoo
    • TenBaRosh wrote:

      pedrikoso wrote:

      TenBaRosh wrote:

      pedrikoso wrote:

      `this is not 100% accurate, shortly after launch, Black Mamba (my old guild) had a really good top-tier team, used the regular bow and they used to beat the shit out of most teams
      So if this is not 100% accurate, Why don't you go to YouTube and verify it?You will find out one of their members channel with GvG videos, you can count how many times out of all GvGs they actually used a Bow.And if they used it for some sort of a time, what does it has to do with "Will we ever see Bow being used in 5v5 as often as Xbow / Frost ?" ?
      Theres no "going in youtube and verify"I was there, I played with them for about 2 months and almost all of it they used the bow every day in every gvg.You said since launch, and you also said HEAVY used.
      So yea, it may not be used nowadays as OFTEN, but they once were.
      Your info in incorrect.I went to Snowlz YouTube channel and watched hes last 5 videos.
      He used:
      1 Fight with Bow
      2 Fights with Clarent
      2 Fights with Heavy xbow.

      So your biggest argument of "Bows been used since launch HEAVILY" is 1 team reference, which used the Bow only once in recent 5 videos.
      So in those 5 videos, the Xbow for example were used 5 times.

      Get your facts straight.

      I really don't understand why would you bring such argument, if you not even willing to verify it.

      P.S - Look at the Date on this screenshot prntscr.com/l5lghc
      --

      Just to mention snowlz is Brazilian!

      His Core was the best of all time!
    • I started playing whispering bow in the last beta before the launch, it was the weapon that I liked the most.

      The people told me that in gvg that weapon was not worth and had no use.

      I think the problem lies in that mainly compared to other dps / weapons is far below, as dps you are very fragile before attacks from other players and as dps does not have a good damage or a burst damage, plus the damage you do is constant but easily avoidable.

      The sad thing is that after more than 1 year continue like this and the developers do nothing, instead there are other weapons that are completely broken and do a devastating and have a lot ridiculous damage.
    • I would love if we would have a thread where people discussed seriously about combat design... which weapons need rebalancing and/or redesigning. I keep seeing posts where people are like "Save Daggers", "Make bows viable for this or that", "Please balance swords, etc."... and it seems everyone are trying to pull the balance in the direction of the weapon they use. Some of these posts almost look like spam and that's a shame. We could have a more healthy/serious discussion about overall balance. There are weapons and skills in every weapon line that I think could do with some tuning or even a redesign.

      Regarding bows they are a beast at open-world, and very good for ZvZ (that's a fact). In your opinion what is it about GvG that makes them a last option for ranged DPS and how you would guys address this, which changes do you suggest? Thing is... it's a hard balance, because of the fact you can use each weapon for ZvZ, GvG, 2vs2, open-world, etc...

      I am curious how many 400/400 bow players have actually tried to GvG since last changes to bows.

      Cheers
    • Mandala wrote:

      I would love if we would have a thread where people discussed seriously about combat design... which weapons need rebalancing and/or redesigning. I keep seeing posts where people are like "Save Daggers", "Make bows viable for this or that", "Please balance swords, etc."... and it seems everyone are trying to pull the balance in the direction of the weapon they use. Some of these posts almost look like spam and that's a shame. We could have a more healthy/serious discussion about overall balance. There are weapons and skills in every weapon line that I think could do with some tuning or even a redesign.

      Regarding bows they are a beast at open-world, and very good for ZvZ (that's a fact). In your opinion what is it about GvG that makes them a last option for ranged DPS and how you would guys address this, which changes do you suggest? Thing is... it's a hard balance, because of the fact you can use each weapon for ZvZ, GvG, 2vs2, open-world, etc...

      I am curious how many 400/400 bow players have actually tried to GvG since last changes to bows.

      Cheers
      "There are weapons and skills in every weapon line that I think could do with some tuning or even a redesign." - Read the thread, we spoke about what being used and what not. By the statistics found on the GvG Board.
      Regarding the changes - again, you did not read the thread, we mention where the ideas were shared.
      "I am curious how many 400/400 bow players have actually tried to GvG since last changes to bows." - You under estimate the community, and seems like you dont GvG / HG / Scrim in Albion.
      CocaDoo
    • I was not referring only to GvG... but about balance and design of weapons/armor overall for different purposes. Would be cool to have a thread that gets updated like monthly or even possibly with a poll where people discuss their view on combat balance/design, that's all.

      I did ready the thread and checked the ideas you guys shared and linked here... but you didn't answer my first question which was: What is the specification of the GvG format that makes it so hard for bows to work there? I am trying to contribute to the discussion, not looking for an argument... I did read the thread.

      And... You're assuming a lot. I don't underestimate the community, I simply don't know actually any team practicing with a 400/400 bow in their team and trying to make it work, if there is then you can elucidate me. I am actually curious how well they're doing and potentially watch them if they stream or post videos.
    • This thread reminds me of some old threads about bow where the Op was a bow player with a lot of specs who was complaining because he couldn't go in any GvG team.

      Bow aren't bad at 5v5, especially now.
      You have a lot of example of players using bows in GvGs overtime (Lolfandar playing whispering bow since beta 2, Shiro who was playing normal bow) and a lot of changes happened on bow so it can be viable at any scale.
      Bow isn't a common DPS, it's not the classic spam q weapon, it has a lot of potential but it requires a setup around it and a good teamplay, thats a reason why people do not play bow in GvG.

      Bow is, as the arcanes, a particular weapon with different assets, now arcane is played as a classic q spammer but if you really look at it there is 10 different ways to play it.
      Same goes for bow, we saw already whispering, normal bow, longbow in GvG and all had a different utility and a different gameplay.
      If you really think you can't make bow work after 15 scrims.... well i'm sorry for you my dude :D

      Bow isn't like fire or frost: it's not viable as long as you can spamm q, it has some different assets, and sufficient assets to be working in gvg (if you set it up)
      what you can note with bow: possible range root, possible high range pierce, possible range glasscanon, possible range high AoE damages, possible high range burst, possible range interrupt + damages zone, possible dash+slow, ...
    • Gugusteh wrote:

      This thread reminds me of some old threads about bow where the Op was a bow player with a lot of specs who was complaining because he couldn't go in any GvG team.

      Bow aren't bad at 5v5, especially now.
      You have a lot of example of players using bows in GvGs overtime (Lolfandar playing whispering bow since beta 2, Shiro who was playing normal bow) and a lot of changes happened on bow so it can be viable at any scale.
      Bow isn't a common DPS, it's not the classic spam q weapon, it has a lot of potential but it requires a setup around it and a good teamplay, thats a reason why people do not play bow in GvG.

      Bow is, as the arcanes, a particular weapon with different assets, now arcane is played as a classic q spammer but if you really look at it there is 10 different ways to play it.
      Same goes for bow, we saw already whispering, normal bow, longbow in GvG and all had a different utility and a different gameplay.
      If you really think you can't make bow work after 15 scrims.... well i'm sorry for you my dude :D

      Bow isn't like fire or frost: it's not viable as long as you can spamm q, it has some different assets, and sufficient assets to be working in gvg (if you set it up)
      what you can note with bow: possible range root, possible high range pierce, possible range glasscanon, possible range high AoE damages, possible high range burst, possible range interrupt + damages zone, possible dash+slow, ...

      Bottom line, we have statistics on the Albion website.
      Instead of throwing random names who dispensary from the game, speaking of which, LuckyLuke played in my team as a bow during the 2017 tournament and we got into semis if i remember correctly.
      Open the website, inspect every single GvG from the past Week, Two weeks, come back to this thread and reply back how many Bows you spotted there.

      I love it how all the "maestro" masterminds comes here with their vision.
      Don't feel sorry for me, at least i GvG unlike you.
      CocaDoo
    • No need to check the recent killboards: since months the number of GvG is super low and most composition possibilities have not been exploited.
      Saying that bow is bad since no player currently plays it is not accurate at all.
      I gave you names and they are known by a lot of players involved in GvGs at these times, they just tried a different thing and made it work.
      I personally don't invest time in GvG atm, it's the only reason why i'm not doing GvGs so don't try to say that you're better or w/e because you do GvGs, i don't even know who you are.
      With the crystal GvGs coming and the new bow q i'm pretty sure we will see a lot of bows in GvGs, since there will be way more GvGs and the meta will evolve for sure.
    • Gugusteh wrote:

      No need to check the recent killboards: since months the number of GvG is super low and most composition possibilities have not been exploited.
      Saying that bow is bad since no player currently plays it is not accurate at all.
      I gave you names and they are known by a lot of players involved in GvGs at these times, they just tried a different thing and made it work.
      I personally don't invest time in GvG atm, it's the only reason why i'm not doing GvGs so don't try to say that you're better or w/e because you do GvGs, i don't even know who you are.
      With the crystal GvGs coming and the new bow q i'm pretty sure we will see a lot of bows in GvGs, since there will be way more GvGs and the meta will evolve for sure.
      Wrong statement.
      Thats how balancing done, when devs spot gear that not being used -> they change it.

      I brought up the Bow topic long time ago, since then the Bow received 4 buffs which didn't do the trick.
      The number 5 buff is incoming with the Q change (again, ive spoke alot about the Q being Cast spell while all the passives are AA).
      So yes, MAYBE the 4 buffs + 1 more incoming buff will do the trick, time will tell.

      Nothing to do with "since there will be way more GvGs".

      Soldier Armor was not being used at all, it received a really nice buff -> everyone started using it.
      Halberd, same story.
      The only thing is, those items also received a nerf, yet still stayed viable.

      The Bow buffs are so minor, that it doesn't do the trick for a very long time, yet if you check NDA they received a buff almost every patch. i don't understand why cant they over-buff it and then slowly nerfing finding the sweet spot, same as they been doing with literally every single item.

      Speaking of activity, your dear guild had 5 fights of 20v20, open the logs and compare how many Bows appeared there compared to Crossbows.
      Oh yes, sorry, you don't need to check the logs, you know better. Never mind.
      CocaDoo
    • People use some weapons because they notice the buffs, it doesn't mean that unused weapons are bad. They just require you to actually think a bit on how to use them.
      There isn't many GvGs atm, and thus the meta is not evolving completly, people do not want to risk using a "non meta" weapon and prefer to stick to the current op and not do the theorycraft themself.
      You're talking about the 20vs20 GvGs but you don't seem to know shit about it. You can observe changes on compositions and gameplay every 20vs20 GvGs and BA actually had some bows in their comp. Also the weapons used in 20vs20 are not the same than the ones used in 5v5 for obvious reasons.
      Why is there changes every GvG ? because the "meta" isn't fixed since there isn't much GvGs.
      If the number of GvG goes up, you will actually discover a lot of new comps (as in scrims but for real) and since bow isn't underpowered as you think it will have a place in GvGs.
      Just stop being a meta slave and playing a soldier armor because someone told you it's OP, it was actually stronger before the original buff it had than it is now (but oh! surprising! people where not using it?)