Sealable Package [Item Idea]

  • Sealable Package [Item Idea]

    Item: Sealable Package
    Item Type: Bag
    Crafting: Toolmaker, Tier 2 - 8, possible materials are cloth, hide and/or wood

    Concept: Even in antiquity, packages or containers allowed goods from one place to move to another place more easily. Under the current system, a transporter would need to take up to 4 trades to receive and 4 trades to deliver. I wish to propose a method that would be 1 trade to receive and 1 trade to deliver, while also giving the client the potential for privacy.

    A package can be accessed from inventory slots or from the bag location (this would be similar to the Chest UI). Per Tier, it would have 3 available slots, so a Tier 2 would have 6 inventory slots and a Tier 8 would have 24 inventory slots. As you fill each slot, the quantity counter on the package icon will increase by 1 and you will lose 1 inventory slot on your character (or if the package is in a chest, the chest loses 1 slot for each item in the package). If there are no available inventory slots to reserve, you can't load additional goods into a package. As you remove items from a package, the inventory slot reservations are released and the quantity counter lowers. The package itself may be in the bag equipment slot or in the inventory, but takes up 1 inventory slot itself.

    At any point a package may be sealed (package icon changes to sealed picture).. A sealed package will have 2 additional values in the item information: (1) The name of the player who sealed it and (2) The silver value of the sealed contents. A sealed package may be unsealed at any time by any player, but the 2 pieces of information are lost. The seal proves that the goods were transported without tampering and gives an incentive to the transporter to keep the package sealed. At the same time, the transporter can see the value of the goods inside, and can base their fees accordingly.

    Suggested death mechanics: If the package is sealed, I would suggest (1) a decent chance that the seal will break and (2) if the seal doesn't break, a large durability hit to the package. If a package was/becomes unsealed or was sealed but reached 0 durability, the contents would each take the normal death mechanics.

    Larger objective: By promoting transportation and commerce, I hope to also promote protective services and bandits.

    Other thoughts:
    • The weight of the package contents counts against a player's encumbrance
    • While I have nothing in theory against imposing scaling weight restrictions on packages by Tier, the player already has an encumbrance limit, even with an Ox.
    Let me know your thoughts! :)
  • I don't understand what exactly this is good for.

    Here's as I see it:
    Say I'd order someone to deliver 200 Ore from A to B.
    Now as long as I receive 200 Ore at B I don't care if it's the same 200 Ore or some other.
    Because all I wanted was 200 Ore in place B, and that's what I got.

    Say I'd order someone to deliver 10 Tier x Swords of Quality y.
    If I get back 10 Tier x Swords of Quality y at the destiny then I'm happy, no matter how the swords got there.

    Same goes for everything else.


    If on the other hand I'd be the one who transports those goods, and I want to steal the goods I'm carrying, there still is nothing that'd stop me.
    Yeah, I can't see what exactly it is, but I can tell that something weighting 200kg has more value than some other thing weighting 1kg.
    Also I can tell that 200kg on 20 slots is more likely to be some weapons than 200kg on a single slot.

    And once I placed all the stuff on my bank I'd tell the other guy that "I'm terribly sorry for getting killed and robbed in PvP...
    But I'd be happy to deliver another package." Which if it was light would actually get safely to it's destination - because I want to build up a good reputation after all.
    Next heavy package? - "Damned corpse camping gankers!"

    "You wonder why I only get killed with heavy packages? That's because I'm so slow with them."


    If I'm missing something, please go ahead and enlighten me. :)
  • @Wolfsspinne ,

    The benefits are:

    1. Reduced interaction for large transports. current trade system only allows for 6 items at a time. If transporting 24 items, it would take 4 trades to receive and 4 trades to deliver.

    2. Allows Player A to keep certain information discreet. So the transporter knows Player A trades with Player B, but if they don't know what is being traded, it allows for a space for possible trade secrets to exist. It is that space, for information to potentially remain private that allows for the existence of more complex trade relationships between players, guilds, and alliances.

    3. Sealed containers have been in use since since antiquity, so this is not a new thought. If you would send a package to another person, chances are it is in a box that prohibits the parcel delivery service from seeing inside. There is a limited expectation of privacy. I don't need to know that you are transporting normal or legendary swords.

    4. If you have ever worked with loading or unloading tractor trailers, or semi-trucks, you may be familiar with truck seals (serialized). So let us say that truck driver A has $100,000 of merchandise. The seal on the truck is broken by the receiver at the first point of delivery and the necessary goods are removed. If it is a multi-stop load on the truck, the receiver at the first stop will verify receipt, and will reseal the remaining goods to transport, sending the transporter on their way. The information about both the receipt and the new seal are transmitted to the next point of receipt. This is a safe-guard system, both for each receiver, and for each transporter. this sort of multi-step delivery should then be possible.

    5. This may be the simplest answer, but it reinforces the reputation of professional transporters in Albion. It provides a provable basis for that, and allows another means to build trust. If the transporter is incapable of making the delivery, or is incapable of respecting the integrity of the seal, then they will only hurt their own reputation.
  • Zetecua wrote:

    @Wolfsspinne ,

    The benefits are:

    1. Reduced interaction for large transports. current trade system only allows for 6 items at a time. If transporting 24 items, it would take 4 trades to receive and 4 trades to deliver.

    2. Allows Player A to keep certain information discreet. So the transporter knows Player A trades with Player B, but if they don't know what is being traded, it allows for a space for possible trade secrets to exist. It is that space, for information to potentially remain private that allows for the existence of more complex trade relationships between players, guilds, and alliances.

    3. Sealed containers have been in use since since antiquity, so this is not a new thought. If you would send a package to another person, chances are it is in a box that prohibits the parcel delivery service from seeing inside. There is a limited expectation of privacy. I don't need to know that you are transporting normal or legendary swords.

    4. If you have ever worked with loading or unloading tractor trailers, or semi-trucks, you may be familiar with truck seals (serialized). So let us say that truck driver A has $100,000 of merchandise. The seal on the truck is broken by the receiver at the first point of delivery and the necessary goods are removed. If it is a multi-stop load on the truck, the receiver at the first stop will verify receipt, and will reseal the remaining goods to transport, sending the transporter on their way. The information about both the receipt and the new seal are transmitted to the next point of receipt. This is a safe-guard system, both for each receiver, and for each transporter. this sort of multi-step delivery should then be possible.

    5. This may be the simplest answer, but it reinforces the reputation of professional transporters in Albion. It provides a provable basis for that, and allows another means to build trust. If the transporter is incapable of making the delivery, or is incapable of respecting the integrity of the seal, then they will only hurt their own reputation.


    I understand the idea of discreet delivery, but currently I don't see a need for it in Albion under the current features available. Anything of "Value" is going to be caravan's by a sizeable group, If there is a need for more trade slots then SI should just add more trade slots, Successful games are those that are made user friendly. Now if it causes a balancing issue then the user friendly feature should be forfeited.

    I would much rather see Lock Boxes, Lock Picking and Keys added to Albion over packages, Imagine an Ox hauling a "locked chest/box" full of resources and weapons. Escorted by a caravan, they get ambushed and defeated. On the body of a fallen foe, they find this locked box, to heavy to move with just a horse(their ox broke), they must leave it on the body and have someone go get or bring an ox back so the spoils can be carried to a safe location. While this is happening they must defend it from the defeated if they return or a passing group. OH wait, They have a skilled lock picker in there group, so he picks the lock and they divide the loot and take off. Maybe there would be different types of locks so there would need to be different types of lock pickers? who knows but it seems more dynamic then a package and it can be used in the same way as the package in terms of the trade slot issue. Also, the person carrying this locked box, wouldn't be the one carrying the key so that if he dies it wont just get opened, maybe a scout or someone on horseback would ride the key more safely to its destination. Don't forget the lock picker would need his "tools" lock picks. Just my thoughts.
  • To use a metaphor or two here, education is something you don't necessarily know you need until you have it or necessity is the mother of invention. The culmination of our ideas may represent hopes or visions about Albion Online's future, and this idea is simply a vision of a possible solution for a potential future necessity, as acknowledged by @gurgo above ("but nothing we are going to need anytime soon").

    I will try to explain another way. This idea is not for the immediate term, but is a longer-term concept that may be necessary at some point. In this, both @Wolfsspinne can't be faulted for not understanding the immediate benefit and @Grimefest is correct that there is not necessarily a current need. So, when might this be needed? This represents a possible need of an Albion that has a stable or even vibrant basic transportation/trade profession. It also represents a time when more mature mechanics are needed that allow for increasingly complex transportation/trade relationships to develop and exist.

    As for the idea of Lock Boxes, Lock Picking, and Keys, my only question / issue is with keys. If they are physical inventory items, wouldn't they also need to be transported? Unless there is a way to make additional keys. The other possibility is for a non-physical key, a code of some sort. that can be communicated or in-game mailed to the intended receiver. The possible downside is that without lock-picking skills, the 15 minute loot life may mean that it would be a necessary bandit skill, possibly rendering the use of lockable boxes or chest moot for transportation.

    Oh, and also always, thanks for the feedback! :)
  • Zetecua wrote:

    To use a metaphor or two here, education is something you don't necessarily know you need until you have it or necessity is the mother of invention. The culmination of our ideas may represent hopes or visions about Albion Online's future, and this idea is simply a vision of a possible solution for a potential future necessity, as acknowledged by @gurgo above ("but nothing we are going to need anytime soon").

    I will try to explain another way. This idea is not for the immediate term, but is a longer-term concept that may be necessary at some point. In this, both @Wolfsspinne can't be faulted for not understanding the immediate benefit and @Grimefest is correct that there is not necessarily a current need. So, when might this be needed? This represents a possible need of an Albion that has a stable or even vibrant basic transportation/trade profession. It also represents a time when more mature mechanics are needed that allow for increasingly complex transportation/trade relationships to develop and exist.

    As for the idea of Lock Boxes, Lock Picking, and Keys, my only question / issue is with keys. If they are physical inventory items, wouldn't they also need to be transported? Unless there is a way to make additional keys. The other possibility is for a non-physical key, a code of some sort. that can be communicated or in-game mailed to the intended receiver. The possible downside is that without lock-picking skills, the 15 minute loot life may mean that it would be a necessary bandit skill, possibly rendering the use of lockable boxes or chest moot for transportation.

    Oh, and also always, thanks for the feedback! :)


    "Also, the person carrying this locked box, wouldn't be the one carrying the key so that if he dies it wont just get opened, maybe a scout or someone on horseback would ride the key more safely to its destination. Don't forget the lock picker would need his "tools" lock picks. Just my thoughts." - previous post.

    Yes if you are transporting something of value you would want to have someone else carry the key and most likely someone on the other end with the proper lock picking skills to open it IF the person carrying the key ends up losing it. Keep in mind a "lock box" doesn't have to be Locked, it can be unlocked too and then transported thus making it in a since a package, but with the lock box it gives it multi dimension and multi purpose, something SI seems to be interested in. Packages seem to be a situational use and lockboxes seem to add layer to the game, but also can serve the same purpose.

    http://www.buildingconservation.com/articles/locks/locks.htm

    Also just like everything else in Albion, maybe if a lock box is dropped in combat, it becomes damaged, rendering all keys useless and must be opened by a skilled lock picker of that lock type, thus adding a new sandboxy skill for players to achieve. lock pick tools would break quite quickly, with low durability, depending on your skill and mastery level. If you are a t2 lock picker and the lock box is t3, you are not getting in. Unless you have masterpiece T2 lock picks and some luck.
  • To play devil's advocate for a bit:

    I notice SI hasn't added lock-picking and/or locks, but have instead gone with a robust permissions system. I see this as an attempt to allow users to protect their possessions even when they are off-line. Moving towards locks and picking skills may be opening Pandora's Box, with Lock Boxes, keys, and picking tools being the tip of the iceberg.

    The suggestion of lockboxes or locked chests may seem like a cool dynamic, but then, "to whom the good" or Cui bono, as it appears in the original Latin. Will senders or receivers benefit from the necessity of hiring additional actors (players) to transport the same load? This represents an increased costs. The package idea might work because the same number of actors are required, simplifying the transaction.

    To your point about having an interesting series of events take place on death... perhaps to pickup any package (from loot) or to open a sealed package (at any time in any region) would take 60 seconds without taking damage. In this way, a similar level of risk exists without the need for the additional complexity.

    Lastly, if the key bearer and the chest bearer work together, they can ascertain the contents of the locked chest and re-lock it without the receiver knowing. The burden of proof that exists with a sealed package is lost. If the name of the person who locked it was shown, then I could agree that a similar burden of proof is possible.

    I will stop advocating at this point! :)
  • I get what Zetecua is going for and without a Mailing system in the game i could see it getting used to some degree.

    More so if more city markets are used and buy orders system isnt just for trolling with 1s buys. (Does that system display highest price to sellers first?)
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻) Riot!1!

    Mar 2nd 2015 - Hi @Pagodin ,

    very good formatting. Makes it easy to quickly get what you are aiming for.
    Consider yourself as part of the pvp testing team (in case you want to)!

    Kr,
    Stefan
  • Zetecua wrote:

    @Wolfsspinne ,

    The benefits are:

    1. Reduced interaction for large transports. current trade system only allows for 6 items at a time. If transporting 24 items, it would take 4 trades to receive and 4 trades to deliver.

    2. Allows Player A to keep certain information discreet. So the transporter knows Player A trades with Player B, but if they don't know what is being traded, it allows for a space for possible trade secrets to exist. It is that space, for information to potentially remain private that allows for the existence of more complex trade relationships between players, guilds, and alliances.

    3. Sealed containers have been in use since since antiquity, so this is not a new thought. If you would send a package to another person, chances are it is in a box that prohibits the parcel delivery service from seeing inside. There is a limited expectation of privacy. I don't need to know that you are transporting normal or legendary swords.

    4. If you have ever worked with loading or unloading tractor trailers, or semi-trucks, you may be familiar with truck seals (serialized). So let us say that truck driver A has $100,000 of merchandise. The seal on the truck is broken by the receiver at the first point of delivery and the necessary goods are removed. If it is a multi-stop load on the truck, the receiver at the first stop will verify receipt, and will reseal the remaining goods to transport, sending the transporter on their way. The information about both the receipt and the new seal are transmitted to the next point of receipt. This is a safe-guard system, both for each receiver, and for each transporter. this sort of multi-step delivery should then be possible.

    5. This may be the simplest answer, but it reinforces the reputation of professional transporters in Albion. It provides a provable basis for that, and allows another means to build trust. If the transporter is incapable of making the delivery, or is incapable of respecting the integrity of the seal, then they will only hurt their own reputation.



    1. Fair point, I didn't know abut that.

    2. This is a game - 99% of the ppl give a damn about who and what you trade with, the other 1% is you and your trade partners.

    3. Yeah, they also did sports without any cloths, told the future by the way birds flew and enslaved Jews... Some things out date for a reason or because there is no reason to keep them up.

    4. That is very true. But real life items don't come with quality indicators or handy little numbers telling you how many items there are.

    5. So... you say that I'm not trustworthy if I don't touch your delivery good when there are no seals to be broken?
    It doesn't matter which way, there's only one way to tell that you can't trust some one - which is if they took or lost your stuff.
    While in both cases - even with all the mechanics there possibly ever could be - you can never tell that you can trust someone 100%.
    Never ever, not in a game and not in real life. That's why they call it trust not safety.


    I can perfectly understand why you or anyone else would want to have some more safety in games that allow for scamming and stealing.
    But with mechanics like this sealing stuff you only hoodwink yourselves.

    With the trade limit and drag-drop as only option to move stuff I can see at least some use for the transport boxes.
  • Wolfsspinne wrote:

    3. Yeah, they also did sports without any cloths, told the future by the way birds flew and enslaved Jews... Some things out date for a reason or because there is no reason to keep them up.

    he brought it up cause it is still used today, quite alot actually
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻) Riot!1!

    Mar 2nd 2015 - Hi @Pagodin ,

    very good formatting. Makes it easy to quickly get what you are aiming for.
    Consider yourself as part of the pvp testing team (in case you want to)!

    Kr,
    Stefan
  • Pagodin wrote:

    Wolfsspinne wrote:

    3. Yeah, they also did sports without any cloths, told the future by the way birds flew and enslaved Jews... Some things out date for a reason or because there is no reason to keep them up.

    he brought it up cause it is still used today, quite alot actually


    And that is where number 4 applies:
    If in real life "the game" would tell me that the thing I just got delivered is exactly the thing I ordered, made by the guy I was told it was made by and in the exact quality and quantity, then what would be my gain in a sealed package that is made to ensure what I don't have to believe anymore since I'm able to know?


    Unfortunately there is no such thing as "the game" in real life.
    So if I'd say we shouldn't have sealed packages in real life, because we don't need them in games (which from my point of view is 100% true) you'd call this point invalid, for a very good reason because it is in fact very much invalid.
    Now how could a point be valid if you put it the other way round?

    Of course in some sort of simulation game it would be valid, but as far as I know AO is not even close to being a simulation game.
    And than again in a simulation game this feature would have it's use since we wouldn't be able to simply tell quantity and quality of a big load of items.
  • i think the sealed package part was more for the middle man transporting the goods. the sender should know whats in there and the receiver. but the delivery guy... to him its just a box of stuff
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻) Riot!1!

    Mar 2nd 2015 - Hi @Pagodin ,

    very good formatting. Makes it easy to quickly get what you are aiming for.
    Consider yourself as part of the pvp testing team (in case you want to)!

    Kr,
    Stefan
  • Zetecua wrote:

    To play devil's advocate for a bit:

    I notice SI hasn't added lock-picking and/or locks, but have instead gone with a robust permissions system. I see this as an attempt to allow users to protect their possessions even when they are off-line. Moving towards locks and picking skills may be opening Pandora's Box, with Lock Boxes, keys, and picking tools being the tip of the iceberg.

    The suggestion of lockboxes or locked chests may seem like a cool dynamic, but then, "to whom the good" or Cui bono, as it appears in the original Latin. Will senders or receivers benefit from the necessity of hiring additional actors (players) to transport the same load? This represents an increased costs. The package idea might work because the same number of actors are required, simplifying the transaction.

    To your point about having an interesting series of events take place on death... perhaps to pickup any package (from loot) or to open a sealed package (at any time in any region) would take 60 seconds without taking damage. In this way, a similar level of risk exists without the need for the additional complexity.

    Lastly, if the key bearer and the chest bearer work together, they can ascertain the contents of the locked chest and re-lock it without the receiver knowing. The burden of proof that exists with a sealed package is lost. If the name of the person who locked it was shown, then I could agree that a similar burden of proof is possible.

    I will stop advocating at this point! :)



    It would be hard to flesh out the details of how lock boxes or packages would work precisely, plus I am under paid at the moment :D. What I will say though is I wouldn't be changing the way ANYTHING works in terms of permissions, by adding lock picking that doesn't mean players should or need to be able to pick player chests or bank vaults, they would be a unique item that can be picked only. Also though this would allow for random chest spawns or lock box spawns around the world making a more dynamic world exploration. Anyway, I am sure they read both of our points and to be honest both would work in this game really, the lock boxes just seems to play the role of both package and/or lockable box.

    Also combination locks can solve the issue of the key, it could be one type of lock.. historicallocks.com/en/site/hl…cks-as-combination-locks/ 16th century combination locks. not sure what "time period" albion is trying to go after.