Is this open world meta acceptable?

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    • Is this open world meta acceptable?

      So lets see what a large percentage of my open world fights are these days, bloodletters, claws, direwolfs. You don't see casters, you don't see solo players who are doing unique builds, no..... What you do see is a bunch of players running blood letters and claws with direwolfs cleansing zone by zone with no effort at all. But why is this you may ask? Well lets look at what makes this shit so strong the game becomes unplayable, the dagger line and more specifically the blood letter and claws have 2 very strong e's 1 can lock a mount or player down for a good chunk of time while dishing out good damage, can be countered yes but still does its job of keeping a target still for his friends to show up. The other E is not only a good gap closer but can execute people from 40% to 0. Now this isn't why they are chosen, there are plenty of other good lock down abilities and high burst/execute specs..... The problem is the fact that both of these weapons get the ability to dash a large distance on a short cool down with no mana cost. There is no decision making when using it, If a player is running away spam dash off cd, if you want to get away spam it off cd until you can mount. The playstyle requires no decision making and has no risk to it. NOW!!!!!! Lets add direwolfs to this equation, very fast mount can scout a zone very quickly and allows the person to "Leap frog" people on slower mounts. So what you get is a group of players scouting a zone in less than 5 minutes being able to secure any kill once a player is spotted.

      This isn't skillful or hard decision making gameplay. It's a bunch of bad players turning there brains off and running to the dot that is called. How anyone can enjoy/think this meta is good is either part of the problem or simply don't play the game.

      Now before any of you idiots comment something about "It has counters!! Bring a group!!!"

      No this doesn't work, the problem again is that once the group feels they won't win they simply leave because of there insane mobility and try else where. It doesn't matter if they already started a fight and used some cd's, they can scatter before you can lock any of them down.

      Imagine a meta where casters and bows could actually go out and do stuff without auto losing to this cancer meta. That would be a good day for albion indeed.
    • So i need to run 1 type of weapon and also never leave town without a healer. Nice response, but i guess you forgot about the part where if they feel they can't win they just leave with no risk. But seeing as you only leave town with a zerg judging by your killboard, you have no idea what you're talking about and shouldn't post here.
    • first) Is relative easy run or safe vs 2 players , you need a correct build and gg , claw e is so easy countereable , normally that skills is for dismount , bloodletter mechanic is difficult to escape ,but bringing corrects skills, that guys need atleast 10-30 seconds for kill you, and that time is so risky for them, because they are just 2 guys and need kill so fast, ... so for that reasons, this current mechanic is not abussive the reward is equivalent to the risk

      second)Dire gankers groups is the most cancer in this game , just fagg0t coward and abbusive mechanic , low risk vs super reward , Anti zerg shield on runners players ( dont offensive skills) must be best than current anti zerg shield
    • deviljim schrieb:

      So lets see what a large percentage of my open world fights are these days, bloodletters, claws, direwolfs. You don't see casters, you don't see solo players who are doing unique builds, no..... What you do see is a bunch of players running blood letters and claws with direwolfs cleansing zone by zone with no effort at all. But why is this you may ask? Well lets look at what makes this shit so strong the game becomes unplayable, the dagger line and more specifically the blood letter and claws have 2 very strong e's 1 can lock a mount or player down for a good chunk of time while dishing out good damage, can be countered yes but still does its job of keeping a target still for his friends to show up. The other E is not only a good gap closer but can execute people from 40% to 0. Now this isn't why they are chosen, there are plenty of other good lock down abilities and high burst/execute specs..... The problem is the fact that both of these weapons get the ability to dash a large distance on a short cool down with no mana cost. There is no decision making when using it, If a player is running away spam dash off cd, if you want to get away spam it off cd until you can mount. The playstyle requires no decision making and has no risk to it. NOW!!!!!! Lets add direwolfs to this equation, very fast mount can scout a zone very quickly and allows the person to "Leap frog" people on slower mounts. So what you get is a group of players scouting a zone in less than 5 minutes being able to secure any kill once a player is spotted.

      This isn't skillful or hard decision making gameplay. It's a bunch of bad players turning there brains off and running to the dot that is called. How anyone can enjoy/think this meta is good is either part of the problem or simply don't play the game.

      Now before any of you idiots comment something about "It has counters!! Bring a group!!!"

      No this doesn't work, the problem again is that once the group feels they won't win they simply leave because of there insane mobility and try else where. It doesn't matter if they already started a fight and used some cd's, they can scatter before you can lock any of them down.

      Imagine a meta where casters and bows could actually go out and do stuff without auto losing to this cancer meta. That would be a good day for albion indeed.
      An equally broken equivalent from Eve Online (to remind: a game from where 90% of AO's gameplay ideas and balancing has been "borrowed") would be the ability to fly an "Interceptor" (a ship that deals barely any damage, but is the fastest in the game) and ability to fit battleship sized guns on it. = broken. But thank God Eve doesn't work this way!

      In EVE - you either chose to fly a battleship (one of the slowest ships, but with biggest damage), or an interceptor (fastest, but lowest damage). That is called balance and that leads to decision making and good meta.
      DarthMagus - T8 Stone;
      Solo Bloodletter PVP
    • BriarMoss schrieb:

      I offered you an easy combination that is incredibly simple to play because you are too dumb to think of a combination to counter easily counterable weapons. If that is too difficult for you still, I wish you the best of luck in this game young loot pinata.
      What???!?!?!?!??! what you offered was to simply drop every other weapon in the game and only leave town with a healer. This isn't a solution to the problem but rather you straw manning something. Again i looked at your k/b, you don't leave town without a zerg so you should not be posting here with 0 knowledge on the subject.

      Also it's not about countering blood letter in a fight which is what i think you're getting at. It's the fact there is no decision making or risk in what they do. Unlike most weapons blood letter can simply engage and leave whenever they want with a 0 mana cost ability mind you, where as 95% of the game either has the choice to engage or flee not both.

      If you fail to see what this post is about then please just stop posting here.

      Captainrussia schrieb:

      deviljim schrieb:

      So lets see what a large percentage of my open world fights are these days, bloodletters, claws, direwolfs. You don't see casters, you don't see solo players who are doing unique builds, no..... What you do see is a bunch of players running blood letters and claws with direwolfs cleansing zone by zone with no effort at all. But why is this you may ask? Well lets look at what makes this shit so strong the game becomes unplayable, the dagger line and more specifically the blood letter and claws have 2 very strong e's 1 can lock a mount or player down for a good chunk of time while dishing out good damage, can be countered yes but still does its job of keeping a target still for his friends to show up. The other E is not only a good gap closer but can execute people from 40% to 0. Now this isn't why they are chosen, there are plenty of other good lock down abilities and high burst/execute specs..... The problem is the fact that both of these weapons get the ability to dash a large distance on a short cool down with no mana cost. There is no decision making when using it, If a player is running away spam dash off cd, if you want to get away spam it off cd until you can mount. The playstyle requires no decision making and has no risk to it. NOW!!!!!! Lets add direwolfs to this equation, very fast mount can scout a zone very quickly and allows the person to "Leap frog" people on slower mounts. So what you get is a group of players scouting a zone in less than 5 minutes being able to secure any kill once a player is spotted.

      This isn't skillful or hard decision making gameplay. It's a bunch of bad players turning there brains off and running to the dot that is called. How anyone can enjoy/think this meta is good is either part of the problem or simply don't play the game.

      Now before any of you idiots comment something about "It has counters!! Bring a group!!!"

      No this doesn't work, the problem again is that once the group feels they won't win they simply leave because of there insane mobility and try else where. It doesn't matter if they already started a fight and used some cd's, they can scatter before you can lock any of them down.

      Imagine a meta where casters and bows could actually go out and do stuff without auto losing to this cancer meta. That would be a good day for albion indeed.
      An equally broken equivalent from Eve Online (to remind: a game from where 90% of AO's gameplay ideas and balancing has been "borrowed") would be the ability to fly an "Interceptor" (a ship that deals barely any damage, but is the fastest in the game) and ability to fit battleship sized guns on it. = broken. But thank God Eve doesn't work this way!
      In EVE - you either chose to fly a battleship (one of the slowest ships, but with biggest damage), or an interceptor (fastest, but lowest damage). That is called balance and that leads to decision making and good meta.
      Agreed, a class/weapon/ship should never be this uncatchable/unescapable and still dish out insane damage with a scary 40% execute.
    • @deviljim, If a player can round up a few buddies and make an operation and shut down a red or even a yellow for that matter....that is just great fun. that is exactly what the game is about. you see that is what teamwork looks like. If you are a carebear, stay in blue and just collect your tier 5 mats. I frankly dont care what they are riding or what equipment they are wearing...its just great fun.
      If you are solo, you take a great risk pilling around red/black...unless you be nice and make friends.
      loser solo carebears are just collectors of my loot.
      My Loot, Your tears.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von heftyflaps ()

    • BriarMoss schrieb:

      They're strong but easily counterable weapons. Just run soulscythe + nature healer and direwolf gankers are no longer a problem.
      Okay...but your suggestion has no relevance to the issues OP brought up. Re-read it. He is talking about a bunch of players on direwolves...

      marg93 schrieb:

      first) Is relative easy run or safe vs 2 players ,
      nobody is talking about running/fighting 2 players... "diresquads" come in 5+ usually. They are no idiots, they want to minimise risk, they don't run 1-2 ppl, its 5+ to guarantee safety. They use stunlock builds too, with chain skill on the chest armor.

      marg93 schrieb:

      so for that reasons, this current mechanic is not abussive the reward is equivalent to the risk
      No, the current 5+ diresquad mechanics is pretty much GG for any solo gatherer. And to remind you - gathering in this game is a solo activity. (unlike Eve online for example, where its a group activity)

      marg93 schrieb:

      second)Dire gankers groups is the most cancer in this game ,
      That is correct. So you are kind of contradicting you previous points...

      BriarMoss schrieb:

      I offered you an easy combination that is incredibly simple to play because you are too dumb to think of a combination to counter easily counterable weapons.
      The issue is not just weapons. Its weapons + the type of mount these types of players are using. If they akin Eve Online - then there would be restriction to max t3 armor/weapons equippable when riding a direwolf. That would be equivalent of an interceptor in Eve - no dmg, all speed.

      deviljim schrieb:

      Agreed, a class/weapon/ship should never be this uncatchable/unescapable and still dish out insane damage with a scary 40% execute.
      Right, but the problem is not just the execute on the Bloodletter (blodletter as a stand-alone weapon is perfectly fine, IMO), its the combination of the fastest mount that makes it an "interceptor with a Doomsday" Eve-equivalent...

      heftyflaps schrieb:

      If a player can round up a few buddies and make an operation and shut down a red or even a yellow for that matter....that is just great fun.
      Ugh, okay it is fun, but has no relevance to this post. This is not what the OP is talking about.

      The problem is that diresquads are pretty uncounterable (un-catchable) and they can kill any solo within seconds...and gathering is done solo... you should be able to figure out the rest...

      1) Get 5+ buddies on direwolfs
      2) go to any "resource concentrated" area on the map in BZ (2 of each in Anglia, 1 of each in Cumbria and 2 of each in Mercia = Total 30 zones)
      3) get "free loot" in any of those 30 zones by killing solo gatherers who run t8 gear and are basically loot pinatas...
      4) Profit...
      DarthMagus - T8 Stone;
      Solo Bloodletter PVP
    • heftyflaps schrieb:

      @deviljim, If a player can round up a few buddies and make an operation and shut down a red or even a yellow for that matter....that is just great fun. that is exactly what the game is about. you see that is what teamwork looks like. If you are a carebear, stay in blue and just collect your tier 5 mats. I frankly dont care what they are riding or what equipment they are wearing...its just great fun.
      If you are solo, you take a great risk pilling around red/black...unless you be nice and make friends.
      loser solo carebears are just collectors of my loot.
      First off i'm the furthest thing from a carebear, I don't gather and don't fame farm. All i do is solo/small gang pvp and i run into this problem alot while playing.

      It's fine if a group of people are able to shut down a zone for awhile but with the current direwolf/bloodletter meta going around there is no counterplay to it, the players doing it don't need to make any decisions other than which dot on the map has found the player. Try shutting down a zone with a bunch of t3-5 horses and casters/non dagger melee, it's possible but you're going to need to put alot more effort in to secure kills. This is how the game should be, players using strategy with one another on how to kill people and react when the situation arises that they need to use there brain in order to kill or get out in time.
    • Captainrussia schrieb:

      BriarMoss schrieb:

      They're strong but easily counterable weapons. Just run soulscythe + nature healer and direwolf gankers are no longer a problem.
      Okay...but your suggestion has no relevance to the issues OP brought up. Re-read it. He is talking about a bunch of players on direwolves...

      marg93 schrieb:

      first) Is relative easy run or safe vs 2 players ,
      nobody is talking about running/fighting 2 players... "diresquads" come in 5+ usually. They are no idiots, they want to minimise risk, they don't run 1-2 ppl, its 5+ to guarantee safety. They use stunlock builds too, with chain skill on the chest armor.

      marg93 schrieb:

      so for that reasons, this current mechanic is not abussive the reward is equivalent to the risk
      No, the current 5+ diresquad mechanics is pretty much GG for any solo gatherer. And to remind you - gathering in this game is a solo activity. (unlike Eve online for example, where its a group activity)

      marg93 schrieb:

      second)Dire gankers groups is the most cancer in this game ,
      That is correct. So you are kind of contradicting you previous points... I havent any contradicting , just I say : Gankers groups 2 or 3 player is not abbusive , they have a equivalent rate risk/reward
      Diregankers 4 guys or more is a abusive mechanic , low-medium risk vs high-super high reward , anti zerg shield must be improved, for player players who do not use aggressive or offensive skills.

    • deviljim schrieb:

      BriarMoss schrieb:

      I offered you an easy combination that is incredibly simple to play because you are too dumb to think of a combination to counter easily counterable weapons. If that is too difficult for you still, I wish you the best of luck in this game young loot pinata.
      What???!?!?!?!??! what you offered was to simply drop every other weapon in the game and only leave town with a healer. This isn't a solution to the problem but rather you straw manning something. Again i looked at your k/b, you don't leave town without a zerg so you should not be posting here with 0 knowledge on the subject.
      Also it's not about countering blood letter in a fight which is what i think you're getting at. It's the fact there is no decision making or risk in what they do. Unlike most weapons blood letter can simply engage and leave whenever they want with a 0 mana cost ability mind you, where as 95% of the game either has the choice to engage or flee not both.
      Congratulations on analyzing one of my crafting alts that has a minimal amount of pve fame so I can play halberd in zvz. This thread is about you getting your ass whooped by easily counter-able weapons is it not?
    • BriarMoss schrieb:

      deviljim schrieb:

      BriarMoss schrieb:

      I offered you an easy combination that is incredibly simple to play because you are too dumb to think of a combination to counter easily counterable weapons. If that is too difficult for you still, I wish you the best of luck in this game young loot pinata.
      What???!?!?!?!??! what you offered was to simply drop every other weapon in the game and only leave town with a healer. This isn't a solution to the problem but rather you straw manning something. Again i looked at your k/b, you don't leave town without a zerg so you should not be posting here with 0 knowledge on the subject.Also it's not about countering blood letter in a fight which is what i think you're getting at. It's the fact there is no decision making or risk in what they do. Unlike most weapons blood letter can simply engage and leave whenever they want with a 0 mana cost ability mind you, where as 95% of the game either has the choice to engage or flee not both.
      Congratulations on analyzing one of my crafting alts that has a minimal amount of pve fame so I can play halberd in zvz. This thread is about you getting your ass whooped by easily counter-able weapons is it not?
      This thread is about the current open world meta with no counters, please stop trolling this post.
    • I'll preface my post by saying that I have over 4m gathering fame. Most of that (3m+) was solo and alliance-less in BZs.

      Most of the time when I die to direwolf gankgroups, it is while I am running to/from the portal.

      When I die heading out... I lose T6/T7 gathering gear, 3+ tools, 3-4 pork pies, a T4 bag, 3-5 journals, and a T4 stag.

      When I die coming back... I most likely banked any purples (or things I didn't want to lose) in a warcamp before I started my trek home. So I lose only 30-50% of what I gathered.

      Later, when I have 1 or 2 guildies on that will scout for me (or I feel like gambling with small amounts solo... potentially on an armored horse with T7 bag), I will head out there to attempt retrieving my stash. I always stay far enough behind them (decoy) so I can't see their nametag, and obviously let them zone through first to check for zone campers on the other side. If they call Inc/Contact I turn around and go stash everything back.

      Perhaps I'll make a tutorial video on gathering, if it's really that bad of an experience for most people.
      Fusionbomb - GM of Morbidly_Obese

      T8 Axe/Sickle/Pickaxe/Skinning Knife
      T6 Stone Hammer

      100/60/60/30 Holy Specs
    • IMO, the problem is direwolves more than the dagger mobility. There's a decent amount of ways to be mobile to escape dagger users (IE long sprints, weapons with mobility like greataxe, hammers, etc). But unless you're running a direwolf yourself, those squads will catch and kill you within one zone, with no risk.

      Just the other day I got spotted by a group of direwolves while soloing in CV with a bloodletter/mistcaller and T5 armored. I made it about 30-40s before I got tagged, leap frogged then CC'd. I actually managed to escape the zone due to mobility from the bloodletter, but they just mounted up and caught me as soon as my bubble dropped in the next zone. Granted, there were 10+ of them but it is just annoying that the only counterplay is to also run a direwolf. As a solo player I'm already risking a lot more with my gear alone.

      My first reaction is to think direwolves just need their speed reduced by 5-10% but that would mean you'd have to nerf other fast mounts like the moabird and swiftclaw to keep everything scaling correctly. I don't think the HP nerf really mattered much as these guys still run with 5+ and essentially no risk, just running any time they encounter a challenge.

      @Retroman Has the dev team been considering anything like this?
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    • slizzard schrieb:

      No risk? They're running around with 6-7m worth of gear in wolves alone, buddy. Check your facts.
      -First, a single ganker needs a balance of escape, damage and cc in its gear to be successful, plus a pair of hands.

      -On the contrary a group of gankers needs to focus only on the cc and the pursuit, if they see an enemy group 80% of the time they will run, for that reason the level of survival is high as well as the reward, they can calmly kill 1 player each 5min or less, this means that in 1 hour can kill 12 player being extremely profitable, very contrary to what the developers say, where they think that as a group and is distributed the loot is not attractive and results unprofitable ... or more this modality does not require hands or skill, only abuse of numbers and cowardice

      *This is probably very easy to solve, the current antizerg shield should be increased, the increase over the current shield should be in the order of 3-5% for each player, this would be possible under these 2 simple conditions:

      1st) If the user assaulted does not have companions of his group on the map or did not have any group
      2nd) If the aggrieved user does not use offensive skills (damage, cc) vs aggressors and also does not use support skills or cures on other allies or players other than self

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 4 mal editiert, zuletzt von marg93 ()

    • Fusionbomb schrieb:

      I'll preface my post by saying that I have over 4m gathering fame. Most of that (3m+) was solo and alliance-less in BZs.

      Most of the time when I die to direwolf gankgroups, it is while I am running to/from the portal.

      When I die heading out... I lose T6/T7 gathering gear, 3+ tools, 3-4 pork pies, a T4 bag, 3-5 journals, and a T4 stag.

      When I die coming back... I most likely banked any purples (or things I didn't want to lose) in a warcamp before I started my trek home. So I lose only 30-50% of what I gathered.

      Later, when I have 1 or 2 guildies on that will scout for me (or I feel like gambling with small amounts solo... potentially on an armored horse with T7 bag), I will head out there to attempt retrieving my stash. I always stay far enough behind them (decoy) so I can't see their nametag, and obviously let them zone through first to check for zone campers on the other side. If they call Inc/Contact I turn around and go stash everything back.

      Perhaps I'll make a tutorial video on gathering, if it's really that bad of an experience for most people.Good show
      Good show +1
      My Loot, Your tears.
    • slizzard schrieb:

      No risk? They're running around with 6-7m worth of gear in wolves alone, buddy. Check your facts.
      Buddy, I've been an advocate of risk vs. reward in online MMORPGs since UO before trammel. It needs to be balanced appropriately for the long term health of a game.

      There's little to no risk ganking gatherer's and other solo type players in the open world with a group of 5+ direwolves. I've done it plenty, and have died zero times while making millions in loot. Being in savage, you should know that too. Your own guild member's stats prove my point:

      Top 5 guilds by Gank Rank (aka fame balance = kill fame - death fame):

      RANKGUILDFAME BALANCEKILL FAMEDEATH FAME
      1Blue Army407,086,0311,044,540,982637,454,951
      2Savage277,818,516514,299,115236,480,599
      3Gypsies113,441,231381,917,909268,476,678
      4Awful Company84,222,428450,621,974366,399,546
      5The Fleet78,335,871274,479,018196,143,147



      I don't know about Gypsies, but Blue Army, Savage and Awful Company are guilds that are known for running around on direwolf squads. Blue army also happens to be one of the top ZvZ guilds, regularly getting more kill fame than death fame at castles and warcamps (beating up OOPS) which is why they're #1 in this metric. Fleet is #5 mainly because Renzgar is a machine (+25M fame balance by himself, usually running a direwolf BTW).

      We're not talking about diving territories or dungeons, or looking for fights against even numbers. There's a reason when Savage is roaming, they rarely if ever go into dungeons - because that would involve actually taking an unneccsary risk of losing a direwolf in a situation where they can't use it to escape.

      The point of the OPs original post, as a player who prefers solo/small group PvP, there is no good counterplay to 5+ man direwolf squads with bloodletters, claws, graveguard chests and skinner caps. There's too little risk and no downsides for these groups that can pick off solo and small groups and run away from anything even remotely resembling a threat.
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      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 3 mal editiert, zuletzt von Grimhawke-EB ()

    • Fusionbomb schrieb:

      Perhaps I'll make a tutorial video on gathering, if it's really that bad of an experience for most people.
      Please do. Please make sure you're wearing t8 armor with at least t8 bag equivalent (7.1 works too), and you're deep in BZ. I'll grab popcorn meanwhile...

      A year ago (ok more like 10 months ago) - I used to run t8 armored horse, t8.1 bag and full t8 gathering gear, but because it hurts the wallet too much and you die the same, Im running t7 armored and a t7.1 bag now. Still full t8 gathering set with a t7 backpack (cuz u don't need t8 unless ure gathering t8 in the Watchtower terries).

      I was one of the OG gatherers who were freely roaming BZ with stacked gear, bloodletters and Buldozer and myself (plus a couple other guys) invented the Bloodletter gathering meta. Check some of my videos from 10 months ago...

      I always defended Dire-gangs, because seeing more then 3+ used to be a rarity...but now it seems everyone and their grandma has some...

      @Lewpac pretty much ganked me out of Souther Fell 10 months ago with their hordes or direwolves. Basically if you don't own the terr - you don't mine there, or you keep hopping guilds to whomever owns a given territory and have no loyalty to your guild. Thats what KwonBoa did all his life...

      Grimhawke-EB schrieb:

      My first reaction is to think direwolves just need their speed reduced by 5-10% but that would mean you'd have to nerf other fast mounts like the moabird and swiftclaw to keep everything scaling correctly. I don't think the HP nerf really mattered much as these guys still run with 5+ and essentially no risk, just running any time they encounter a challenge.

      @Retroman Has the dev team been considering anything like this?
      If we make a parallel to EVE - having a direwolf equipped, should reduce your IP by like 50-80%. That would make any character with t6-t7 gear riding it, feel like "an interceptor" in Eve - all speed and no damage. More on my proposal below. (see post #21 on next page, pg 2)

      slizzard schrieb:

      No risk? They're running around with 6-7m worth of gear in wolves alone, buddy. Check your facts.
      Yes, but that 7 mil is split between 7 people which is 0 risk when facing a single person, even a duo they can kill with virtually no risk... and any "danger" they can disengage from - very easily.
      DarthMagus - T8 Stone;
      Solo Bloodletter PVP

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Captainrussia ()