Is this open world meta acceptable?

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    • Can we call the Counter-Strike balanced game in terms of one vs group?
      Definitely yes.
      If one skilled enough, he can rip 5-6 pple in a fraction of second with several well-placed headshots.
      Is it possible for skilled player in Albion? Even if we assume he wearing 8.0 and they wearing 4.0 claws?
      In most cases, not.
      Numbers value too much here, thus the groups and zerging exist.
    • Eternalhaze schrieb:

      It's not just direwolf or any fast mount that's the problem.

      The root of the issue is how difficult it is to force an engagement, thus requiring groups to kill solo players which in turn makes bloodletter the king at catching. If other weapons could catch as well or even close to bloodletter, it would make the meta less stale. As a frequent solo player, it's near impossible to force a 1v1 without a bloodletter or other extremely high mobility build, because even if you do get to fight your opponent, he can just run away and you won't catch him again.

      Since most successful ganks require a group, 1v1s are extremely rare which just makes this game a pile of garbage for solo players. Add on top of that, a lot of gank groups are 15+ which isn't nearly as profitable, but almost entirely ensures a victory by just having more numbers. And now we are at a state of the game where SAVE and POE are massive alliances at close to 3000 players each, and their presence doesn't allow smaller guilds to survive outside of picking one alliance to align with.
      How is forcing and engagement the problem? What do you want, the moment you see a person on a mount they are forced to be dismounted and die? If people don't want to fight then that is fine, there are still many ways to "force" them to fight such as being dismounted setting a trap, using 1 player as bait, using stealth with a scout calling targets out. These are all ways i'm able to secure 50-100 kills a day solo/small gang, this idea you need to be on a mount to catch people is fucking stupid and it's obviously not how the game is designed. Mounts are strong yes but they require the person using it to pay attention at all times. Lose focus for 2 seconds and guess what? You're on my killboard because you walked right over me. The problem with direwolfs and bloodletters is that they ignore any strategy or knowledge of dismounting people, they simply spot a player, run on top of them to dismount and double dash poison and gallop is gone. This isn't balanced gameplay if all the other weapons in the game can't do the same and it isn't fair for those who are mounted and paying attention.

      For these 2 things still being in the game the way they are is the reason i ignore blackzones, nothing fun about being leapfrogged by 10 of the worst players you will ever see in the game. When you do see them in red zones without there direwolfs and bloodletters they are clueless and honestly they are free loot at this point.
    • deviljim schrieb:

      Theat schrieb:

      If people want to nerf the entire game so that one player can survive versus 10 or more, then this is no longer a 'sandbox' game.

      And, in reality, 1 player cannot stand against 10 anyway.

      That's why there are zerg-circles on maps.
      Please stop posting here, you're obviously trolling and add nothing to the discussion.
      So you're implying that 1 player should stand against 10???

      Who's the one "not adding to the discussions"?

      You're the troll.
    • Synced schrieb:

      The truth here in my opinion is that this game due to its mechanics has accumulated lots of people interested in salt, too many, enjoying making people upset, not challenging themselves in a healthy way (well healthy is also relative I guess), that's what pvp means to some vocal ones. And as the game has a subpar pve experience at its core and the dev manpower is limited (not really their fault as a whole), there are choices to make. They are simply struggling to keep the original audience on the pedestal enough while keeping more "balanced" userbase who like the real challenges and less punishing environment engaged, and as there is a striking difference between them at personal level, there is hardly any balance possible. People who likes salt will hardly going to compromise any advantage they have got to bully, as this is one of the best most populated games that hasn't died out due to the fact it's catering to an unfortunate niche of personalities across the whole mmo userbase.

      Likely like this thread shows, there are also people who have good objective thinking on what and what not works and are interested in interesting challenges. This is unfortunately or fortunately, depend where you sit, a game that has the potential to bring the worst in people. Question is, is it right for the developers to cater those who want to world to burn, those who just can't help but degrade human positive evolution? Does it even makes business sense? Where is the middle point here?

      I cannot fault indie developers to go this way either from a business standpoint, pve focused landscape is filled with high production value title that are simply impossible to reach with small teams due to expectations through the roof, even high production titles can barely make the fortune spent back, the logic choice for small developers is mostly low production value pvp, it's affordable to produce at a level needed for the bully crowd to enjoy their time, way less saturated with high end products, all in all, feasible. Just like that little 8 bit like game is feasible to get it right for a solo mobile developer.
      you really put yourself up on this moral pedestal and you have no right to do so because this is a full loot pvp game that is about territory control and economic control. Everyone knows what they signed up for from the first page of the website.

      "Albion Online is a sandbox MMORPG set in an open medieval fantasy world. It has a fully player-driven economy; all equipment items are player-crafted. You can freely combine armor pieces and weapons in our unique classless system – you are what you wear. Explore the world and tackle challenging PvE content. Engage other adventurers in small- or large-scale PvP, and conquer territories. Gather. Craft. Trade. Conquer. Leave your mark on the world.










      Feature 1


      Fight for your life

      PvP Action

      Challenge yourself with intense, exhilarating PvP fighting with the greatest warriors in the open world of Albion. Gear up and use teamwork to send the enemy fleeing from the battlefield! Only the most skilful fighters will leave the field victorious!"

      I am completely satisfied with my Albion adventures ,the days I die the days I don't I always enjoy it because the challenge and the journey of the game creates an experience you can't get many other places and I commend the devs for staying true to that vision.

      "Conan what is best in life?"
      "Crush your enemies, see them driven before and hear the lamentations of their women"

      "I think we made the merchant angry"
      "Are you suprised?"
      "But we didnt steal everything yet"
      "We didn't have time"

      I feel like Conan every time I play.
    • I hope to read something like "poison pots doesnt remove hallop anymore" from NDA playtests. Also, I already wrote, "The Adrenaline System", that makes the horse run faster based on number of enemies chasing it (starting with 3). Thats the way of balancing 1vGroup. One still be caught if group make it clever, but that "stupid chase with 10 wolf" will be obsolete and ineffective.
      Another way is to increase % of trashed items when one killed in 1vGroup.
    • I mean........I see lots of mass shooting happening in RL where one takes out many. Opportunity, skill, and psychosis make much possible. A well trained fighter can take out groups if they are trained 1 against multiple. Pending circumstance. So even though AO is not RL if that is a justification it's not super accurate.
    • Theat schrieb:

      I'm disappointed everytime I read this thread and players suggest that 1 player ought to survive against 3 or 5 or more than 10.

      In real life, imagine for a second, you're on a horse and running from 3 or 5 other horses. You would get caught, and die. It's semi-realistic in this sense.
      Theat that's not what we're discussing... at least most of us. There's people doing 1vsmany everywhere in Albion... skill, certain builds and the circumstances of the fight will dictate the outcome.

      What some of us disagree is with certain builds/mechanics being abused ATM and that seem unbalanced, with a big effect in the small-scale open world PvP. In my opinion fast mount ganking is unbalanced and the dagger's W dash requiring no mana too. I explained before why this is unbalanced and others have shared their view in the subject too.

      Things have been tweaked last patch and will keep being tweaked that impact the open-world meta (next big thing will be poison changes + t8 resources I expect) hopefully trying to reach a better balance and improve gameplay. By the end of the day depends also on feedback from the community, from the round table and the devs experience/view of the game.

      Apart from @PrintsKaspian post with some media content from solo players not a lot of attention has been given to this style of play since the addition of the roaming mobs... The direction of the game seems to be catering more towards GvG and guild/alliance based activities, and that's ok... it seems the solo community though rich in media (youtubers + streamers) it's not that large or doesn't have such a loud voice to impact game developing.

      Roaming through Mercia you realize that the idea of people living in the map has vanished and that makes me a bit sad. The other day at EU primetime I scouted all T7 dungeons in Mercia to find only a group of 4 guys. That's like 1 group in 12 rotations possible. Not a good sign.

      A good sign though is that the devs are working on some things (T8 resources, Resource bosses, random dungeons) which might attract more people to the open-world... let's hope so and let's hope that brings extra content for Solo play too.

      Anyway... 30 pages of thread and no word from a Dev, I would be curious to know what's their view on some of the questions we debated here.

      Cheers
    • Theat schrieb:

      In real life, imagine for a second, you're on a horse and running from 3 or 5 other horses
      Would you put yourself in such situation IRL? Me for sure not. But this is not IRL, it's not even trying to look realistic. And that's great. You can experience unexperiencable. Point here is, we should have a balance of sort, and fairness, of sort. If one guy works hard and trains his skills in 1vX to the point he get good at it, he should have a chance to prove it. Not to die 98% of cases to BL vegetables who have only one quality - their playstyle let's them earn a lot of money 'pvping' with minimal risk to put on themselves every piece of gear that increases their unfair advantage.

      That's my personal opinion, don't consider it a personal attack please, I live too long to enjoy those.
    • Theat schrieb:





      In real life, imagine for a second, you're on a horse and running from 3 or 5 other horses. You would get caught, and die. It's semi-realistic in this sense.
      Theat not sure which world you live in... But in real life no one jumps off a horse galloping and it's ready to start fighting :P I would say 99% of the people will straight out of the gate break their legs or hurt themselves in some way.

      I guess 3 or 5 horse could catch up to a slower horse, but no one would get caught and die unless:
      1. The horse escaping stops and others keep moving, eventually catching up, dismounting at slow speed or stationary;
      2. The people chasing have some type of ranged weapon to hit the escaping horse or the rider.
      I watched plenty Westerns so I know what I am talking about :P

      Current mounting mechanics resemble nothing of real life... Horses don't eat, can be summoned out of thin air and you can dismount and start attacking after 1 or 3s depending on the situation.
    • Raithe schrieb:

      I mean........I see lots of mass shooting happening in RL where one takes out many. Opportunity, skill, and psychosis make much possible. A well trained fighter can take out groups if they are trained 1 against multiple. Pending circumstance. So even though AO is not RL if that is a justification it's not super accurate.
      The problem with that is that 1). Everyone believes they are the "one" that's good even to 1v10, but if you do the math, its just not possible for everyone to be that "one." 2). The equivalent in Albion to a mass shooting is killing naked people which happens frequently enough in Albion. IRL most of the mass shootings are armed guy vs unarmed, unarmored people. So trying to equate someone's ability to kill numerous unarmed people IRL is not comparable to one guy killing a bunch of people with arms/armor in game.
    • Theat schrieb:

      deviljim schrieb:

      Theat schrieb:

      If people want to nerf the entire game so that one player can survive versus 10 or more, then this is no longer a 'sandbox' game.

      And, in reality, 1 player cannot stand against 10 anyway.

      That's why there are zerg-circles on maps.
      Please stop posting here, you're obviously trolling and add nothing to the discussion.
      So you're implying that 1 player should stand against 10???
      Who's the one "not adding to the discussions"?

      You're the troll.
      It's not a matter of 1 player standing against 10 it's a matter of 1 player on a mount getting spotted by 1 player in a group of 10 and having a next to no chance of escaping, if you could actually read you would know i'm fine with people getting killed by 10 people "IF" they were baited, trapped, outplayed. Direwolf bloodletter ganking is none of these things and that is the problem. What you fail to understand is there needs to be a balance between the gankers and the ganked. In redzones we rarely have this problem and it's a healthy mix, players who pay attention on there mount live, those who don't die. Where as in blackzones those who pay attention on there mounts still die and those who don't die even faster. You ignoring these facts is why i call you a troll so please stop posting until you get this through your thick head.
    • Eternalhaze schrieb:

      @Captainrussia

      Yes, I'd rather the game give more ways for players to fight 1v5 to at least have a chance. Like I said the game encourages group play when it comes to most things in albion, and ganking is no different. The problem lies in the fact that 1 person vs even as little as two, has very little chance to fight back - which is why everyone runs from ganks, because even fighting will get you killed all the same.

      I could be in 8.3 and still lose to two or three gankers, which to me means there's little skill involved when gear doesn't matter that much and it's more of a numbers game. We need to step away from making the game more beneficial to play with more numbers and give more individual skill caps to the players. Otherwise we will continue to see X alliance vs Y alliance for all of the blackzones.
      yes, so we're on the same page then. More ways to fight 1v5 or at least have a chance! <-- This is exactly the point. Nobody is asking for 100% ability to wipe out a 5-man 1v5 or to always escape. We're looking for at least a chance (a 20-30% rough estimate is what I would be happy with, but thats just me) to escape 1v2 1v3 1v4 and maximum 1v5.

      You statement "game encourages group play" is true, however there should be a very distinct line drawn between the term "encourages" and "forces". In terms of PVE - I can solo grind and be fine. Im not "forced" to group fame (even tho group fame can be and is better fame-per-hour, but as a trade off can take longer to find a group). Same should be with PVP. Solo PVP should be a definitive option to skill-less group ganking. Group ganking should still be "an option" but with a negative trade off. And "splitting the loot" apparently is not enough, as half the people don't even care bout loot (they are rich I guess?)
      .
      The encouragnemt for group PVP is to do ZvZ - and thats a whole different beast. ZvZ is made in order to capture "game objectives" (castle, warcamp, etc...) nobody should be joiuning ZvZ just to gank a solo guy. ZVZ for pure PVP vs another zerg - sure. Vs 1 player - should be discouraged.

      Theat schrieb:

      If you want to nerf the entire game around group versus solo then go play a "fair" game. You don't belong here.
      Can you please provide an example of a "fair" game? Obviously a PVP one, as saying Hello-Kitty Online won't count (besides the fact that its my favorite line to say, anyway).

      Theat schrieb:

      The best solution is to make 3-5 different specific weapons have more 'catching' abilities and 3-5 different specific weapons have more 'fleeing' abilities. This would allow more players more choices, along with the ability to escape for some classes.
      Okay - this shows you are not fully understanding the issue. So what happens when the gankers now use these same "escape" mobile weapons for offensive purpose. We're back to square one. Its the same as we have right now - people run BLs in a group to kill/catch another BL. If you introduce more mobility on other weapons, we will see more variety - but the result will be the same (which is the root of the propblem here): skill-less group ganking vs a solo player.

      Theat schrieb:

      If a player is using a build to escape from ganks then he should be hard to catch.
      Right, read above. This does not work when a ganker also uses an "escape" build to catch. They cancel each other out. And when doing that on a 4-5 man group with direwolves you are now removing risk from the bigger group and making it virtually risk free. (note the key word - virtually).

      Theat schrieb:

      And with some items, using invisibility, soldier boots, this is already the case. If you drink an invis potion with the majority boost of soldier boots, you're very likely to escape. I don't know why you noobs aren't mentioning this, or you just don't use it?
      I don't know if you're a noob and if you're actually tried this recently? Have you not seen the video I linked? "Death of a gatherer". yes drinking an invis pot when it first came out like at the game launch made gankers "derp" and not know what do to. This is also when most gankers used ZvZ builds for PVP/ganking in the OW and direwolves were not as common. Now most gankers can easily catch you anyway and Invis potion is mostly useless. Also the re-mount CD was a huge indirect nerf to the Invis potion - as you used to be able to remount in 30 sec, and now its 45 I believe.

      In my 1v10 Bloodletter video I was able to double dash + soldier boots + Invis and by that time the mount CD was up and I remounted. That was like 3-4 patches ago and is no longer possible. There have been nerfs to escaping over multiple patches in the past...

      Theat schrieb:

      If you want to get away from ganks then wear the right gear and abilities. Play smart.
      yeah okay... you have demonstarted 0 example of "play smart". Video of "BestStrke" suiciding into mobs in 1 of 6 OW dungeon maps, executing 2 gankers and then being executed himself is not a good example I hope you understand that.

      Theat schrieb:

      And, in reality, 1 player cannot stand against 10 anyway.
      Stop putting this shit into people's mouths. Nobody NOBODY in this thread mentioned 1v10 - EVER. Except you. You created a disillusioned straw man argument and now you are jumping all over it.

      We're talking 5 man, MAX. But on average we should have good chances escaping some of the time from 1v2, or 1v3 or 1v4 (maaaaybe 1v5). All these numbers are arbitrary and can be changed by SBI.

      Theat schrieb:

      So you're implying that 1 player should stand against 10???
      No - you're the only idiot who keeps implying that and putting these words into other people's mouths (posts). We're talking 1v5 MAX. 1v3 if we wanna keep that an AVG.

      Theat wrote:

      Theat schrieb:

      I'm disappointed everytime I read this thread and players suggest that 1 player ought to survive against 3 or 5 or more than 10.

      EaosAmur schrieb:

      Everyone wants to be the hero, I think modern culture has taken the grit out of people
      This is telling me that both of you never played a competitive skill based MMO.

      Eve Online, Rust, Asheron's Call (probably UO? I never played it), now Fallout 76, even Dota/LoL (and other MOBAs) that pit 5v5 have situtaions where 1 or 2 players get jumped by 2-3 and skillful plays happen of X vs Y (where X < Y).

      But apparently none of you have played a skill based game where 1 player can fight more then 2, but less then 5 players. And shop with the trolly straw man "1v10" bullshit. Nobody is expecting to survive/escape 1v10. I am expecting to escape/survive 1v4, as that is what I used to do on a regular basis as a gatherer before SBI nerfed things into the ground and made direwolfs very accessible (to gankers).

      This ganking meta is even worse then the Poision pot + Merc jacket ranged heal spam...
      DarthMagus - T8 Stone;
      Solo Bloodletter PVP

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 2 mal editiert, zuletzt von Captainrussia ()

    • It will be nice to test poison pots not breaking other defenses such as invis. Until we see how that shakes out it's hard to say how escape is feeling.

      I still thing heal pots should be a touch stronger and that would help a bit. T8 poison does more than 25% of my health in dmg and its fast. T6 heal pots can't quite make up for a lack of merc jacket. It would open up room to use more chest pieces for survival out there.

      Side note:
      On the chance of surviving 1 against many and not dying......anyone else here been jumped by multiple ppl, defended yourself, and escaped alive?
    • Raithe schrieb:

      I mean........I see lots of mass shooting happening in RL where one takes out many. Opportunity, skill, and psychosis make much possible. A well trained fighter can take out groups if they are trained 1 against multiple. Pending circumstance. So even though AO is not RL if that is a justification it's not super accurate.
      This happens in Albion.

      One player walks up to a group of knocked-out players in a dungeon. One slaughters many.
    • ixxxo schrieb:

      Theat schrieb:

      In real life, imagine for a second, you're on a horse and running from 3 or 5 other horses
      Would you put yourself in such situation IRL? Me for sure not. But this is not IRL, it's not even trying to look realistic. And that's great. You can experience unexperiencable. Point here is, we should have a balance of sort, and fairness, of sort. If one guy works hard and trains his skills in 1vX to the point he get good at it, he should have a chance to prove it. Not to die 98% of cases to BL vegetables who have only one quality - their playstyle let's them earn a lot of money 'pvping' with minimal risk to put on themselves every piece of gear that increases their unfair advantage.
      That's my personal opinion, don't consider it a personal attack please, I live too long to enjoy those.
      The game is already balanced though.

      The meta is fine.

      This point was already made a dozen times in this thread. Ride a dire wolf yourself and turn-around when you see a direwolf coming at you. You would never die.


      Most players die to incompetence, ignorance, bad information, over-confidence, a mix of all these. It doesn't mean the game's broken just because a player makes mistakes or refuses to L2P.