Is this open world meta acceptable?

    • Mandala schrieb:

      we're discussing balance... not nerfs...
      You obviously haven't been reading the thread.

      There has been lots of whining, and emphasis, on nerfing the game to revolve around the carebears and victims.


      I'm not "whining". I'm anti-whining. I'm countering the whiners because I don't want Albion to happen like UO (trammel) or WOW (flying mounts), both which killed the open-world pvp of those games over time. Because of WHINERS.
    • TBH care bears and whining haven't driven the development any more than pvp. A lot of the reactions to the prevalence of pvp are to be expected. For years the devs have been working to lower the bar for entry to pvp. Also options have shifted to push ppl more and more this direction. So now care bear and deathcore pvpers are all mixed in one very closely connected map with little room to work around each other.

      What do expect? I think the direction is more or less fine as now red zones are more suitable to small group and solo (thank you rep and factions). Non pvpers can use more risky zones and have info (thank you red count) to help avoid what they dont want. At the same time pvpers can mix in these zones and everyone is forced to share the game. Just one example.

      So now that we are all in the same boat how are we to balance these interests that have been forced together not by any player but by the evolving vision of the devs in relationship to ganking and opening up possibilities for interplay that is more or less fair.


      In all fairness I think flagging red in the RC makes a player a lot more vulnerable than those who are not into this playstyle understand. Flagging red is risky pending gear investment. Wolves are def a higher investment for me at least as are moa birds or swift claws.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Raithe ()

    • Theat schrieb:

      Raithe schrieb:

      TBH care bears and whining haven't driven the development any more than pvp.
      That's not true.
      There have been a few key nerfs to ganking and world-pvp since beta.
      I guess my question is which nerfs do you mean as key (gallup, off screen name tags, rep, etc), and why would you say they are nerfs to ganking for the purpose of reducing ganking vs for the purpose of encouraging/forcing more ppl into a pvp playstyle as victims or predator? Accessibility to pvp for all. That may express my point better.
    • @Theat,

      Most of this discussion comes from different in-game experiences leading to different perspectives about open-world PvP, ganking and so on... I don't want any nerfs to open-world... what I wish is that open-world is alive, varied and provides a good experience for the people that decide to live that life...

      In case you haven't noticed the game has become softer... with things like HCE, Tomes, Fame credit system, HG caps, more help/quests for new players... I strongly disagree with some of these (HCE's, Tomes, Fame credits) but I make an effort to understand why they are there, and have to respect the team might have a different vision from mine... I don't think there was any whining driving these decisions...but it's a fact the game has gone softer.

      One of the last changes the Devs made that had a major impact on open-world was adding the roaming mobs... making it more viable to fame in the open-world as a solo player or group of 2-3. Since then the amount of people faming these mobs has increased and I would say apart from guild plots most of the BZ is occupied by people faming, gatherers and the roaming gankers (not talking about dire squads)... These are the players that keep the open-world alive, making it feel real. In that regard I would say roaming mobs was a "buff" to the open-world experience.

      You were talking about carebears but we differ in our perspective there too... What do you mean carebear? I would argue that most of the gank squads around follow a carebear playstyle... I honestly have a bit of disdain for people that come with 10 or even more people to kill a single guy... this type of ganking is in concept a pretty coward/bully playstyle which shouldn't be so easy nor rewarding... Ganking as a playstyle it's way more complex and vast than just direwolf ganking, unfortunately this type of ganking became too prevalent and people became less creative as consequence too.

      My point is that these gank squads don't present an exciting nor challenging playstyle and their contribution to the open-world as they are is not great... might even be detrimental, pushing away new people that after wiping a few times just decide to sit in Caerleon doing HCE's... What me and some other are arguing is simply make things more challenging. There's already too much hand-holding in this game...

      I liked your idea of the pirate city, I would make it an underground city only accessible to the people with negative reputation and with specific bonuses/mechanics... I rarely go to the Royal continent but I would say that the rep system might be a bit too punishing.
    • Mandala schrieb:



      I understand some of these changes might undermine the way some people make money on this game or have fun... I would take your own advice @Theat of adjusting and git gud (is that how you spell it?)... but trolling the post and be arrogant enough that you think you speak for all Albion community is completely inadequate/false. If you look at people posting in this thread you will realize there's more people thinking that needs balancing than the ones that think all is fine...



      i agree with you on everything you said but this.
      because when SBI balance nerf things, the adaptation is not about getting "good" or "better" in the game.
      its about spending endless hours in a boring dungeon, making boring pve, to be able to get back to where you once were, not to get better.
      this not to talk about crafters, who specialize in a weapon then the weapon gets nerfed and no one buys it anymore.
      SBI has zero competence for nerfing things. Nerfs are often too harsh and stuff is taken out of the game, not only from meta.
      this being said, im still completely against SBI nerf way of thinking and i really believe we should just quit thinking about nerfs and start thinking about buffs only. at least untill SBI figures how to make proper balance without ruining people's gameplay.
      Artificial intelligence will never beat natural stupidiy.
    • Silks schrieb:

      i really believe we should just quit thinking about nerfs and start thinking about buffs only
      Remember scaling Item Power in WOW? Meatcup remembers. It was a shitshow to balance. It accelerated out of control, literally - it was an exponential curve and they had to flatten it.

      Nerfs are a necessary evil in my opinion, as it keeps the 'stage of meta' in scale. Rolls of buffs are exciting, but I think they have a tendency to change the landscape beyond what the initial scope required.

      I fail to see how someone can be so emotionally invested in a specific build (which is re-specc'able) that gameplay is 'ruined'. It's not like there's a 'class of the month" like other MMOs since you have no excuse to not begin playing said class. T5 is 30 mastery.
    • MEATCUP schrieb:

      Silks schrieb:

      i really believe we should just quit thinking about nerfs and start thinking about buffs only
      Remember scaling Item Power in WOW? Meatcup remembers. It was a shitshow to balance. It accelerated out of control, literally - it was an exponential curve and they had to flatten it.
      Nerfs are a necessary evil in my opinion, as it keeps the 'stage of meta' in scale. Rolls of buffs are exciting, but I think they have a tendency to change the landscape beyond what the initial scope required.

      I fail to see how someone can be so emotionally invested in a specific build (which is re-specc'able) that gameplay is 'ruined'. It's not like there's a 'class of the month" like other MMOs since you have no excuse to not begin playing said class. T5 is 30 mastery.
      Yes i do agree that buffs can have nearly the same problem as nerfs, but imo SBI already proved they dont know how to nerf things without ruining gameplay experience for some.
      Ill give you an example and if its not enough for you, just ask me and ill give other examples.
      When the game released, one-handed frosts were in meta.
      I chose to craft it for profit and put a lot of LP, effort, gathering and invested time into mastering one handed frost craft.
      A few months after, frost was nerfed to the ground by SBI and the weapon wasnt even viable anymore in a competitive environment.
      Not only the GVG players that were frost needed to spend tons of things, from silver to time, to be able to GVG again, like the one handed frost crafters lost their income and needed to start crafting other stuff or even stop crafting(my case)
      So yeah, basically buffs can hurt the game as much as nerfs sometimes, but they definitely wont make anyone quit doing what they were doing because their stuff got nerfed to the ground.
      Nerfs are much more sensitive than buffs.
      Artificial intelligence will never beat natural stupidiy.
    • Silks schrieb:

      Mandala schrieb:

      I understand some of these changes might undermine the way some people make money on this game or have fun... I would take your own advice @Theat of adjusting and git gud (is that how you spell it?)... but trolling the post and be arrogant enough that you think you speak for all Albion community is completely inadequate/false. If you look at people posting in this thread you will realize there's more people thinking that needs balancing than the ones that think all is fine...
      i agree with you on everything you said but this.
      because when SBI balance nerf things, the adaptation is not about getting "good" or "better" in the game.
      its about spending endless hours in a boring dungeon, making boring pve, to be able to get back to where you once were, not to get better.
      this not to talk about crafters, who specialize in a weapon then the weapon gets nerfed and no one buys it anymore.
      SBI has zero competence for nerfing things. Nerfs are often too harsh and stuff is taken out of the game, not only from meta.
      this being said, im still completely against SBI nerf way of thinking and i really believe we should just quit thinking about nerfs and start thinking about buffs only. at least untill SBI figures how to make proper balance without ruining people's gameplay.
      I used a bit of irony in there... to try and make Theat see that the logic "adjust and getting good" is not a solution for in-game balancing when you're thinking about game development. I would say though... that if you want to be successful in this game adjusting is key to make it more enjoyable.

      I do agree with you there. In the Roadmap thread I praised SBI for some of their ideas but told them they can definitely improve in their combat design and balancing. Now... 2 things I realize are: this is an hard game to balance considering all types of PvP encounters (ZvZ, GvG, solo, etc...) and secondly some work has been done to try and make more weapons relevant/balanced for PvP, I believe we are better now then we were few months ago... My opinion still is that we need better design/concept for certain weapons and balancing to others. I would love SBI to put extra resources into their combat design team.

      About nerfing or buffing I don't actually think there's much difference... both nerfs/buffs will influence what people are using for combat (GvG, ZvZ, HG's, Solo, etc.) with impact to the game economy. Yes, crafters will take a big hit because unlike combat you can't transfer fame between nodes. We have clear examples of things which were reworked/introduced which were not balanced at all (Battlemounts, Relics, Halberd, and I think I could easily find more examples). Staff of Balance for a long time made almost any other tank weapon obsolete for 5vs5.

      2 things disappointed me on the roadmap Q&A: The question/poll about the Holy W spell (it looked a bit amateurish to me) and their answer about the solo gameplay question... it seems this playstyle has been a bit disregarded and they seemed disconnected from their population that follows the solo life. As someone once said "Solo does not mean alone".

      This raises the question of representation too... One of the playstyles that has more media (youtube, twitch, etc) is the solo life. How many viewers do these youtubers, streamers have? What's their impact on the visibility of this game? How many players engage on solo activities or PvP? Maybe @Zalrenic could give us some data on this (at least the solo PvP encounters). And what's the representation of this community in the round table? Same applies to crafters, gatherers, etc... I believe GvG'ers are possibly one of the smallest communities in this game and one of the best represented in the round table. Would be cool to get some data/percentages on this.

      Some food for thought... oh... And why isn't this thread in the most active threads on the forum home page?
    • Mandala schrieb:

      i agree with you on everything you said but this.because when SBI balance nerf things, the adaptation is not about getting "good" or "better" in the game.
      its about spending endless hours in a boring dungeon, making boring pve, to be able to get back to where you once were, not to get better.
      this not to talk about crafters, who specialize in a weapon then the weapon gets nerfed and no one buys it anymore.
      SBI has zero competence for nerfing things. Nerfs are often too harsh and stuff is taken out of the game, not only from meta.
      this being said, im still completely against SBI nerf way of thinking and i really believe we should just quit thinking about nerfs and start thinking about buffs only. at least untill SBI figures how to make proper balance without ruining people's gameplay.

      I used a bit of irony in there... to try and make Theat see that the logic "adjust and getting good" is not a solution for in-game balancing when you're thinking about game development. I would say though... that if you want to be successful in this game adjusting is key to make it more enjoyable.
      I do agree with you there. In the Roadmap thread I praised SBI for some of their ideas but told them they can definitely improve in their combat design and balancing. Now... 2 things I realize are: this is an hard game to balance considering all types of PvP encounters (ZvZ, GvG, solo, etc...) and secondly some work has been done to try and make more weapons relevant/balanced for PvP, I believe we are better now then we were few months ago... My opinion still is that we need better design/concept for certain weapons and balancing to others. I would love SBI to put extra resources into their combat design team.

      About nerfing or buffing I don't actually think there's much difference... both nerfs/buffs will influence what people are using for combat (GvG, ZvZ, HG's, Solo, etc.) with impact to the game economy. Yes, crafters will take a big hit because unlike combat you can't transfer fame between nodes. We have clear examples of things which were reworked/introduced which were not balanced at all (Battlemounts, Relics, Halberd, and I think I could easily find more examples). Staff of Balance for a long time made almost any other tank weapon obsolete for 5vs5.

      2 things disappointed me on the roadmap Q&A: The question/poll about the Holy W spell (it looked a bit amateurish to me) and their answer about the solo gameplay question... it seems this playstyle has been a bit disregarded and they seemed disconnected from their population that follows the solo life. As someone once said "Solo does not mean alone".

      This raises the question of representation too... One of the playstyles that has more media (youtube, twitch, etc) is the solo life. How many viewers do these youtubers, streamers have? What's their impact on the visibility of this game? How many players engage on solo activities or PvP? Maybe @Zalrenic could give us some data on this (at least the solo PvP encounters). And what's the representation of this community in the round table? Same applies to crafters, gatherers, etc... I believe GvG'ers are possibly one of the smallest communities in this game and one of the best represented in the round table. Would be cool to get some data/percentages on this.

      Some food for thought... oh... And why isn't this thread in the most active threads on the forum home page?

      i do agree that adapting is the key to enjoy Albion changes in the best possible way, but the thing to me is the adapting process which is boring and make people quit.
      respec is expensive and only viable for rich players or p2w players, just like tomes of insight.
      i believe that less than 30% of the player base is wealthy enough to spend money with respec and tomes.
      this being said, adapting is going back to the boring dungeons and making all the boring fame farm again which i doubt that even 10% of the playerbase likes to do.
      so yeah, maybe the problem isnt about buffin over nerfing, but creating way for us to adapt without making it seem we are going back in time and to a time where we DONT want to be.
      Artificial intelligence will never beat natural stupidiy.
    • Mandala schrieb:



      This raises the question of representation too... One of the playstyles that has more media (youtube, twitch, etc) is the solo life. How many viewers do these youtubers, streamers have? What's their impact on the visibility of this game? How many players engage on solo activities or PvP? Maybe @Zalrenic could give us some data on this (at least the solo PvP encounters). And what's the representation of this community in the round table? Same applies to crafters, gatherers, etc... I believe GvG'ers are possibly one of the smallest communities in this game and one of the best represented in the round table. Would be cool to get some data/percentages on this.
      Number of unique characters involved in PvP events last month: 12,947
      Number of unique characters involved in solo PvP events last month: 7,580

      58.546%

      Only 212 people had more than a million solo kFame last month though.

      Twitch and other streaming sites are kind of outside of my pervue... as a grumpy old man, I will never understand why people like to watch other people play video games.
    • Think of the Core

      The hunter and hunted, will have different points of views of the hunt to be had or endured.

      The core is that there is a hunt, and SBI has to "play God" as they created this platform and can control it to change, profits would come into play when making choices because after all that is how its success is determined in this world, how much players it has how much money it makes, period.

      This started full loot it must remain full loot.

      So in a twisted sort of way, SBI is ganking the solo player too, because he has too, because that is what Albion is i am coming to realize. So the REAL objective of SBI is to make this look good and fair, although knowing it cant be for certain people.

      Knowing this, there are still some people like me in the world that just cant "let it go" and will try endlessly to achieve even while the odds are against him/her. The game survives off of people like us, we are the goldfish that are supplied to the lake of piranhas so to speak. All they need to do is make sure they dont run out of "goldfish" that become pirahnna.

      So all in all, this game is as fair as it can be in this world of conditions that must be met.

      the choice is to play or not really, not have the cake and eat it too.....

      no more complaints from me
    • Neu

      After watching what seems to be impeding me from staying alive while being ganked it seems that actually not being able to zone out (because I had to use spells to get away once unhorsed - dgs and cave/passages primarily) and not being able to get up on my mount as the freaking cd is super long when I have to get off the heal my horse and get caught in that cd. I really don't like the horse cd or the not zoning cause of combat.Gimmicky rules. It seems like most of these mechanics are described as existing to help ppl stay alive but really they just limit options and take away from the total survival chance. Like off-screen name-tags.