Some ideas of spells tweaks / revamp on the bow line

    • Some ideas of spells tweaks / revamp on the bow line

      Hello everybody. My name is Owlsane and i'm an Albion player since October 2017. Just before starting this thread i want you to know that i'm not perfect with my english so it might have some mistakes on it.

      So to describe myself, i'm a bow user since my debut with some small crossbow and frost mage usage. Your first though on myself after saying that is probably that i'm whinning because bow sucks and it need huge buffs everywhere. To be honnest it was at my debut (being a new player gives always that sensation). At it stands today, i think the bow is good in every aspect of the game. Solo to small group ganking, HG / GvG, ZvZ, PvE, HCE. Not overpowered, not underpowered. And now you may ask why i'm making a post and i'm gonna explain it and making as understandable as possible.

      As i said before the bow is good at the moment and doesn't need buffs or nerfs but we have an issue with some spells that is rarely used to never used due to have spells to good to be unseen or spells that doesn't fit in the bow identity / clunky usage / etc. Because of that the bow tree have that gameplay variety to much narrowed in my opinion and my goal is to propose some tweaks / revamp of thoses underused / identity lack spells and to have a civilized debate with people in this post and edit as the thread goes and goes. Some values here is as i call visual value because, depending of the tier of the bow damages and energy cost changes.

      Q - DEADLY SHOT (ALL BOWS)

      As it stands today, the recent revamp of Deadly Shot gave a tool that bows lacked so much in his debut. It's the sunder resistances. This spell alone made bows viable in the HG and GvG format. You don't have a Bloodletter or a Crossbow with sunder? No problem, bows can do this job too. At this moment you may ask yourself why Deadly Shot is listed on? Well, the thing is, something bothers me and some bow users. We don't understand why the cast time is still there. Maybe the name makes the idea that you need to focus on your shot to be deadly or maybe it's just SBI that wants to save the only features still alive on this spell. Anyway, in my opinion it alienates the whole concept of the bow which is to have insta cast on every spell (exeption of the Rain of Arrows from the Longbow), you know the hit and run kinda gameplay. Deadly shot can be interpreted as a shot that will make the others more deadly.

      My idea is to delete that cast time and give it a cooldown like the two others Q spell. It will need some number tweaks but nothing more :
      • Energy cost : 100% to 200%
      • Cooldown : 0s to 2s
      • Cast time : 1s to 0s
      • Damage on ennemy : 100% to 150%


      W - SPEED SHOT (ALL BOWS)

      Before the movement speed nerf and the buff of Ray of Light, Speed Shot was a must have spell for Warbow in open world pvp. As it stands for today, SBI added an attack speed steroïd probably aimed to bring more presence in the PvP scene of the auto-attack based bow such as normal and whispering bow, which is very nice. Sadly this spell is never used for 2 reasons. First of all,
      it's a spell that actually need to be cast on an ennemy and as we now when you use a cast spell you will get as i like to call the "auto-attack lag" making you lose at least 1 sec out of the 5 sec attack-speed buff and secondly, Explosive Arrows synergizes so well on Normal and Wispering bow (damn thoses juicy aoe AA) and Ray of Light bring more utility to the table.

      With that in mind and to maintain the idea of this spell being targeted for auto-attack bows, i propose thoses changes that in my opinion will make people think twice on the W slot :
      • Point and click to Self cast
      • Energy cost : 100% to 300%
      • Cooldown : 15s to 20s
      • Damage on ennemy : 100% to 0%
      • Movement speed bonus : 20% to 10%
      • Attack speed bonus : unchanged
      • Physical and magical damage bonus : 0% to 20%
      • Buff duration : 5s to 8s


      W - FROST SHOT (ALL BOWS)

      Spell mostly used as a disengage tool, very popular in ZvZ for his utility but now overshadowed by the buff of Explosive Arrows that makes Longbows and Wailing bows go wild in teamfight. Unless Explosive Arrow come back to the old version, Frost Shot will not come back to the ZvZ format (unless cheese strats) but i think he has potential in ganking and small scale teamfight. In fact, it can be used as a dash like in the dagger line but need more brain to use and more apm as the spell is a bit clunky to use (the need to aim on the opposite side of where do you want to go and also the need to immediately click foward otherwise you will be immobile for half a second due to the game's mechanic). It can bring an kitty kite version of gameplay that can rivalise Ray of Light in some aspect.

      In my opinion it will need a small tweak on the energy cost and a mechanic change in the spell. Here is my proposition :

      • Making the spell act as same as Frost Nova from the frost staff line. Explanation : You select the area you want to dash and the shot will be directed behind you in melee range.
      • Energy cost : 100% to 33,3%
      • Slow : unchanged
      • Duration of the slow : unchanged


      E - UNDEAD ARROWS (WHISPERING BOW)

      The Wispering bow makes place with the Normal bow as the two only auto-attack based bow of their category. On one side you have an agressive type of bow that will hit harder and faster every auto-attack (Enchanted Quiver from Normal Bow) and the other side you have that long range and constant dps (Undead Arrows from Whispering Bow). Even with thoses differentiations the normal bow brings more utility on the table with the high sunder resistances after 6 stacks and even more with Deadly Shot revamp. With that said, i don't think Undead Arrows need more damage but a feature that will bring the whispering bow a niche type of gameplay.

      What i propose is transforming thoses auto-attacks on piercing aoe auto-attacks (As an example, if people knows League of Legend, i'm talking about Twitch's R. Here is a youtube link to show the feature for people who don't know League of Legend)

      https://d28xe8vt774jo5.cloudfront.net/champion-abilities/0029/ability_0029_R1.webm

      With that said. I propose also to add an unpurgeable status on Undead Arrows. The reason for that is because there is a lot of ways to deny a Wispering bow by making him losing as much as possible the buff duration. A purge (example with the Fiend Cowl) is way to easy by deleting all the damage output with one key press :
      • Simple auto-attack to a piercing auto-attack (speed missile goes as fast as Multishot speed missile)
      • Energy cost : unchanged
      • Cooldown : unchanged
      • Bonus range : unchanged
      • Damage on ennemy : 100% to 90%
      • Buff duration : unchanged
      • The self buff can't be purged


      E - ENCHANTED QUIVER (NORMAL BOW)
      In my opinion, there is nothing much to change but with what i said with the whispering bow, i propose to add an unpurgeable status on Enchanted Quiver self buff. Purging the stacks is gucci :
      • The self buff can't be purged but stacks can still be purged
      There we go all my ideas. I whould like to get your thoughts with argumentation about it. If you have some ideas, don't hesitate. The goal is to have a civilised debate that can advance on some cool features for the bow line in the future and not an whining thread who everybody shitalk to each others.

      Have a nice game everybody and a good day.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 3 mal editiert, zuletzt von Owlsane ()

    • I like your ideas.
      Too bad @Retroman busy buffing Crossbows which is being used in any aspect of the game since launch, but taking baby steps with the Bow line.
      Giving extra duration to the Bows E - like its gonna change anything...

      I swear Retroman has something against Bow Line, Doing everything he can to keep it away from 5v5.

      Why the Devs can over buff Spear, Axe, Fire - then nerfing it slowly finding the right Balance, but with the Bow line... im so pissed.
      Been waiting since launch for the Bows to be valid in 5v5 activity.
      Looks like the NDA patch notes coming to a closure and no hope for Bows again.

      God damn, WAKE UP, ITS BEEN ALMOST A YEAR.
      CocaDoo
    • Crossbow 2h has hardly been played or used in anything along with weeping repeater, they are up there with bedrock mace + black monk staff uselessness and killboard recorded kills, However currently bow has One of the most over used smallscale/ZVZ pvp weapon (Longbow, cheap powerful aoe) or wailing aoe one shotter, Plenty of kills per week happen with bow in killboard, (Warbow) , whispering is sort of used a small amount , However the Actual 2h Bow is lacking agreed. But overall bow line is one of the most heavily streamed pvp weapons, Take one of the many bow players like lolfandar for example:

      TenBaRosh schrieb:

      I like your ideas.
      Too bad @Retroman busy buffing Crossbows which is being used in any aspect of the game since launch, but taking baby steps with the Bow line.
      Giving extra duration to the Bows E - like its gonna change anything...

      I swear Retroman has something against Bow Line, Doing everything he can to keep it away from 5v5.

      Why the Devs can over buff Spear, Axe, Fire - then nerfing it slowly finding the right Balance, but with the Bow line... im so pissed.
      Been waiting since launch for the Bows to be valid in 5v5 activity.
      Looks like the NDA patch notes coming to a closure and no hope for Bows again.

      God damn, WAKE UP, ITS BEEN ALMOST A YEAR.
    • What exactly you trying to achieve with your false statement?
      You telling me Whispering Bow been used MORE OFTEN in GvGs and HGs then Heavy Crossbow?
      You telling me Normal Bow been used MORE OFTEN in GvGs and HGs then Heavy Crossbow?

      Here is a short list of kills done with Heavy Crossbow in top GvGs, used by familiar names, in real, important fights:
      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/21080137
      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/20934189

      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/20900675

      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/20934126

      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/20900038

      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/21171313

      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/20934195

      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/21080227


      PLEASE show me similar list from recent month regarding Whispering / Normal Bow in GvGs.

      Take your time, do a proper research before spiting some random words.


      Bow is the most over used in ZvZs?

      Really?


      Here is a kill list from the most important 20 v 20 that happened this week.

      I spotted over 5 Crossbows, did not spot a single Bow, if you find MORE Bows then Crossbows, your statement hold water.

      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/21754759

      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/21754916

      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/21789229

      albiononline.com/en/killboard/kill/21789092


      Check the Kills + Assists + Deaths on that links.



      So tell me, What exactly you trying to achieve with your false statement?


      Asaroth schrieb:

      Crossbow 2h has hardly been played or used in anything along with weeping repeater, they are up there with bedrock mace + black monk staff uselessness and killboard recorded kills, However currently bow has One of the most over used smallscale/ZVZ pvp weapon (Longbow, cheap powerful aoe) or wailing aoe one shotter, Plenty of kills per week happen with bow in killboard, (Warbow) , whispering is sort of used a small amount , However the Actual 2h Bow is lacking agreed. But overall bow line is one of the most heavily streamed pvp weapons, Take one of the many bow players like lolfandar for example:

      TenBaRosh schrieb:

      I like your ideas.
      Too bad @Retroman busy buffing Crossbows which is being used in any aspect of the game since launch, but taking baby steps with the Bow line.
      Giving extra duration to the Bows E - like its gonna change anything...

      I swear Retroman has something against Bow Line, Doing everything he can to keep it away from 5v5.

      Why the Devs can over buff Spear, Axe, Fire - then nerfing it slowly finding the right Balance, but with the Bow line... im so pissed.
      Been waiting since launch for the Bows to be valid in 5v5 activity.
      Looks like the NDA patch notes coming to a closure and no hope for Bows again.

      God damn, WAKE UP, ITS BEEN ALMOST A YEAR.

      CocaDoo
    • GamepadXY schrieb:

      i think he meant the snipe crossbow but dunno xD just passing by
      Yep no doubt crossbow line is viable , Was just saying the snipe crossbow and weeping repeater are very bad and unplayed atm, I havn't bothered to check the killboard but i find it hard to believe Longbow/Wailing bow arn't used for zvz or smallscale in high numbers, its aoe is deadly and longbow is non artifact, yet can one shot groups. You seem to have linked only a few battles :P: Check out buffs for next patch, i think badon will be viable
      • Deadly Shot (all Bows)
        • Standtime: 0.2s → 0s
      • Enchanted Quiver (normal Bow)
        • Cooldown: 30s → 20s
        • Time for Arrows to expire: 20s → 30s
        • Buff Duration per hit: 4s → 5s
      • Undead Arrows (Whispering Bow)
        • Duration: 8s → 10s
        Fixed an issue where many spells did not escalate in damage when multiple players were hit at the same time, even though this was intended. Affected Spells [FULL LIST ADDED 24 SEPTEMBER]:
        • Vendetta (Camlann Mace)
        • Raging Storm (Bow of Badon)[/b][/i]
        • Spectral Trident (Trinity Spear)
        • Vicious Barrage (Siegebow)
        • Razor Cut (Bear Paws)
        • Soulless Stream (Galatine Pair)
        • Ice Crystal (Permafrost Prism)
        • Flame Tornado (Blazing Staff)