Some faction war feedback

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  • Some faction war feedback

    First of all, after looking into it i am really excited about the gameplay this promotes, and it seems to me that the incentive driven activities you are creating will foster a open world pvp scene that i so wish would be in outlands as well.
    Still tricky to grasp how it will play out, but i am very positively surprised and i think its going to be awesome.

    Faction declaration:
    Works, simple and intuitive. once you are flagged the button of joining faction still is active - just a detail.

    Faction shop:
    There is a price and a requirement. not super intuitive with the requirement part, maybe a tooltip when hovering over the requirement stating "needed faction points to buy this item".

    Points:
    4500 for capturing point and 1000 for killing boss in a 3 man group. fine baseline
    kill a t6 mob and get18 rep
    harvest a t6 node and get 70 rep.

    Seems to me that gathering is incredibly overpowered compared to mob killing and outpost capturing in terms of rep gains. getting rep by gathering is probably 5-8 times faster than even with successfully capturing outposts

    Boss fights:
    I hate Pve in Albion, but these fights were fun and challenging. Each boss alone would be the best pve encounter in the game to date, and now there is 5 - incredible.
    Really happy to see you improving this, and i cant wait to see pvp fights play out on top of those bosses as well.
    Fantastic job on the boss encounters - all of them.

    question on patchnotes
    in patchnotes it states: "Once claimed, these bases will offer valuable resources to your faction" what does this mean ? is it a running income while under faction control, or does it simply mean that i get some points for killing it ?.

    No faction minus points:
    I find it to be a major mistake not to give minus points. I can have max faction in Fort Sterling, then flag to bridgewatch and go and kill Fort sterling outposts and players and i will get positive rep for bridgewatch but not a single minus for Fort Sterling.
    That does not make sense in any way. your actions must matter, otherwise you quickly get everyone to max rep for all factions, and then there is no development.
    If you kill the players and guards and outposts of a faction, you probably wouldnt be their hero with top rep either.

    Topscorers?
    Will the reputation factors be seen on the highscore lists?.

    On overcharging:
    Small detail, but when you overcharge the icon doesnt grey out even though its no cooldown. it should have a active icon or be greyed out until the 30 minutes have passed.

    maybe a bug:
    Not sure why, but after the first 5 minutes i could no longer click on my faction info on my avatar and i couldnt press shift-f, in fact no shift shortcots worked. relogged, and changed chars but didnt help. might also be something on my end, but first time i experience it.
    update: i logged in after serverdown, for 5 minutes i could access my faction info and then it disappeared again.

    Defending incentives:
    There is no bonus for defending a outpost from attackers, which i think would be cool - but i dont have any solution that couldnt be exploited either, so maybe best that way.

    On Caerlon interaction:
    I dont see a reason why you cant enter Caerlon belonging to a faction?. That should be doable so you dont have to run all the way to the royal lands city every time you want to do faction wars. What is the design reason for not being allowed to enter caerlon?

    possibly a bug:
    When server went down i overcharged to see what would happen during downtime. now the servers are back up, overcharing gone and i lost no items. ofc i might be lucky and i cant try again for obivous reasons. but may be a thing.

    lastly, i think the faction wars are going to be awesome, and i cant wait to see it play out and particiate in it - especially because everyone will need the rewards. I think it will be a massive success, and that you can already start looking at how to transfer that incentive model for gameplay to the outlands.

    Outstanding work.

    ps. im worried about the gathering rep gain

    /Frank

    The post was edited 7 times, last by Sinatra.SUN ().

  • I agree with needing some sorta rep minus I know they made it so u can freely change whenever u want but maybe put a time cap on it if it u change within said period of time u lose 1000 rep or something once u get to max on each not much it will become stale


    the markers on the map with the sword crosses appear when 1 of the lesser guards are killed and the guards don't seem to respawn AT all so if u kill 1 guard that marker saying the area is under attack will be perm on the map maybe make a red X when the boss is being fought and white for guards or just make the X for when boss is engaged for defending purposes


    do the bosses zerg? I never got a chance to get more than 7 on 1 boss I did notice it was a lot more spam happy with its skills but hp stayed the same if they do have the zerg/rage buff I think it should be removed how do u stop a large group of faction players from hitting said boss they all will want points


    no points from pvping? I know people are thinking it can be abused by having guild members or friends in other factions but if u don't get points for pvp what is the point in defending only attacking is worth it on a rep/point scale

  • Sinatra.SUN wrote:

    you dont get points from pvp kills, which would have been nice from a gameplay perspective but waayy to easy to exploit the shit out of.

    you could get 1 point pr 50 average ip of your opponent and it wouldnt be overpowered, but its just so dangerous to start doing.
    I know the exploit and abuse is there but I mean to get NOTHING for defending or attacking for pvp kills is kinda lame


    maybe we can have some sort of unique kill system that lasts for few hours before reseting that u can get points off say u kill thekiller12345 u get points but u kill him again within 30mins u don't get any points

  • it simply doesnt work, and never worked in any game.

    the games that tried the unique kills had giant alliances meeting up killing each other once pr day, or you would just have a ton of alts you could kill yourself.

    its the same reason why pvp fame cant give destiny board fame. it would be fantastic in terms of immersion, and totally destructive in terms of how it would play out.

    another example is darkfall, where you skilled up with what you used also in pvp, which means that you had so called "meat walls" where people were simply placing alts to be attacked and healed and it made noone skill up in open world because you were just hitting alts in safe environments.

  • Sinatra.SUN wrote:



    Points:
    4500 for capturing point and 1000 for killing boss in a 3 man group. fine baseline
    kill a t6 mob and get18 rep
    harvest a t6 node and get 70 rep.

    Seems to me that gathering is incredibly overpowered compared to mob killing and outpost capturing in terms of rep gains. getting rep by gathering is probably 5-8 times faster than even with successfully capturing outposts

    Hi Frank,
    Thank you for all your feedback. Regarding factions points: our current numbers suggest that you need to gather T6 at least 23 min to get to the same income point wise as outposts give one player of a 3-man group.


    Can you give us some details on your numbers and explain your calculations further? How many outposts do you think you could capture on average per hour and what group size would you pick?

  • Jolder wrote:

    Sinatra.SUN wrote:

    Points:
    4500 for capturing point and 1000 for killing boss in a 3 man group. fine baseline
    kill a t6 mob and get18 rep
    harvest a t6 node and get 70 rep.

    Seems to me that gathering is incredibly overpowered compared to mob killing and outpost capturing in terms of rep gains. getting rep by gathering is probably 5-8 times faster than even with successfully capturing outposts
    Hi Frank,
    Thank you for all your feedback. Regarding factions points: our current numbers suggest that you need to gather T6 at least 23 min to get to the same income point wise as outposts give one player of a 3-man group.


    Can you give us some details on your numbers and explain your calculations further? How many outposts do you think you could capture on average per hour and what group size would you pick?
    I did few bosses with 3 people id say each area takes a good 10 to 15mins that's with 3 people to clear guards then boss if anyone was to intrupt us on the boss tho the time would be gone and if u add more people the points are a lot less

  • Jolder wrote:

    Sinatra.SUN wrote:

    Points:
    4500 for capturing point and 1000 for killing boss in a 3 man group. fine baseline
    kill a t6 mob and get18 rep
    harvest a t6 node and get 70 rep.

    Seems to me that gathering is incredibly overpowered compared to mob killing and outpost capturing in terms of rep gains. getting rep by gathering is probably 5-8 times faster than even with successfully capturing outposts
    Hi Frank,
    Thank you for all your feedback. Regarding factions points: our current numbers suggest that you need to gather T6 at least 23 min to get to the same income point wise as outposts give one player of a 3-man group.


    Can you give us some details on your numbers and explain your calculations further? How many outposts do you think you could capture on average per hour and what group size would you pick?
    I think you might be right on the gathering estimate but that you mught vastly underestimate the outpost capture situation.

    These outposts will be big “come here” signs for open world pvp’ers. It will be pvp hotspots and winning these boss fights will depend a ton on the time of day, but in Us and eu primetime you will go with 6+ and you wont get a lot of those you attack and you will likely die quite a bit.

    Just try to take a outpost while having a single fourth try and interrupt you. One enemy will make it a ton harder, and thats best case

    There is no balance between risk and reward in the balancing, and especially in primetime it will be pvp hotspots and larger groups will be there for sure.

    Another thing, how will the defensive bonus for high standard rep apply?. Seems to me that you will get this bonus in faction pvp?

  • "Another thing, how will the defensive bonus for high standard rep apply?. Seems to me that you will get this bonus in faction pvp?"

    We're still working on changing this to NOT apply the defensive bonus as long as players are flagged for faction warfare. We don't want players with high rep. to have an advantage against players with low rep. while participating in this activity.

    "I think you might be right on the gathering estimate but that you mught vastly underestimate the outpost capture situation."

    This is a difficult one for sure so your input here is very appreciated. Without going through all the numbers indetails right now: We want Outposts to be a rewarding activity and if a successful capture turns out to be a rare thing we will adjust the rewards accordingly.
    The first staging version does in deed take higher capture rates of 3 and more per hour into account.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Jolder ().

  • I think the trade quests are not worth it right now.

    For example you invest 3 faction resource to go alot of maps away and then back for only 2 resource profit.
    Or invest 15 to win 12.

    Even you are successful 50% of the time you end up negative.

    Also for the same time invested just gathering or fame farming or outpost farming you will get more than 3k faction credits while risking only T4 gear.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by AcOrP ().

  • the resource runs are not worth it at all but need to be done for these mounts and capes so u just take the cheapest one and run it on a direwolf like 3 times and then ignore them its more a pain in the ass than anything or maybe they will be cheap enough on the AH the fragments are only count as 1 unrefined resource for crafting so thats not worth the cost either

  • I havent tested in detail but just looking at it i disagree with the “its not worth it” sentiment.

    The lowest level traderoute has a 4500 reward which is the same as a outpost kill. Im pretty sure a run is less risky and also faster than taking a outpost.

    Will test it later today but id think that its very worthwhile compared to the other activities

  • The resource runs will prob receive some number tweaking before the final update.

    We see this in a similar way as the outposts: Your income will of course vary with the amount of pvp / gankers so we're careful not to have this as the single most efficient way to get points.

    That said, these trade runs need to offer a good reward, especially in the case a player picked a smart resource flip, since this is also a form of transmutation where you can exchanging a cheaper resource against a more valuable type. Last but not least, the size of our trade pack will also influence this income.


    And of course your feedback regarding these resource runs is also very appreciated!

  • Sinatra.SUN wrote:

    Im pretty sure a run is less risky and also faster than taking a outpost.
    I believe it is not so safe as they appear to be, because although you have two destinations (two delivery points) for each of the routes they are easily cut by PKs such as the outposts. The only difference is that one is an activity, lets say, more "solo" and another is a group play.


    I did not like the fact that I was doing the mission for one city and receiving the resources of the other, we should be able to choose the final resource that we want to receive between the two cities of the mission or a combination of the two.