HCE ruin the game!

  • so you see people wasting 20% of fame over and over again :thinking:


    I only enjoy "roaming mobs"/camps, fuck dungeons and pve in this game, at least I hate it and the only reason I do fame in dungeons is because i want that competitive pvp feeling. Never done any HCE, I respect the fact that people actually enjoy pve content.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by tabooshka ().

  • tabooshka wrote:

    so you see people wasting 20% of fame over and over again :thinking:
    The fact, my friend, is that, considering the insane fame amount given by HCEs if compared even to black zone dungeons (also considering the zero-risk of losing time because of gankers/divers), losing the 20% fame for respec seems (I repeat, I know people doing this who says that) totally worth it.
    And I personally totally dislike this concept. It seems like “In AO you are what you wear after you cap your HCE gear”.

    Btw, I totally don’t care about drops in HCE, if you spend 60+kk for getting the gear imho you deserve an excellent money payback. My perplexity arises just from the fame amount given by HCEs.
  • Isio wrote:

    tabooshka wrote:

    so you see people wasting 20% of fame over and over again :thinking:
    The fact, my friend, is that, considering the insane fame amount given by HCEs if compared even to black zone dungeons (also considering the zero-risk of losing time because of gankers/divers), losing the 20% fame for respec seems (I repeat, I know people doing this who says that) totally worth it.And I personally totally dislike this concept. It seems like “In AO you are what you wear after you cap your HCE gear”.

    Btw, I totally don’t care about drops in HCE, if you spend 60+kk for getting the gear imho you deserve an excellent money payback. My perplexity arises just from the fame amount given by HCEs.
    the problem is not in HCE, problem is in shitty fame&silver reward in OW, dont you find that?

    HCEs the only way to progression for many people who can login for only hour or two few times a day
  • HCE? Still never tried one. Have heard good things for fame and silver but instanced doesn't interest me... I wish they would have never added anything instanced in the game outside of GvG's and HG's. But someone somewhere likes the instanced HCE's and such, so if it makes them happy, so be it. I think HCE should be nerfed a small bit and open world buffed a small bit, but I'm just a peon in this game...
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  • letwolf wrote:

    Isio wrote:

    tabooshka wrote:

    so you see people wasting 20% of fame over and over again :thinking:
    The fact, my friend, is that, considering the insane fame amount given by HCEs if compared even to black zone dungeons (also considering the zero-risk of losing time because of gankers/divers), losing the 20% fame for respec seems (I repeat, I know people doing this who says that) totally worth it.And I personally totally dislike this concept. It seems like “In AO you are what you wear after you cap your HCE gear”.
    Btw, I totally don’t care about drops in HCE, if you spend 60+kk for getting the gear imho you deserve an excellent money payback. My perplexity arises just from the fame amount given by HCEs.
    the problem is not in HCE, problem is in shitty fame&silver reward in OW, dont you find that?
    HCEs the only way to progression for many people who can login for only hour or two few times a day
    I agree just in part. It would be a solution (better than actual situation, ofc), but there’s no need to make the game easier imho.
  • This thread going still I see. Real simple solution, Buff OW. There is nothing EZ about about doing runs that earn 500k-1M/hr those are the upper limits of HCE not the average run. Its a time and cost investment to get there. The few people who are getting there now are predominately rich gatherers, GvGers, crafters and Guild officers.


    The standard player is doing 8-10runs for the most part and they are earning less than what OW averages can make.

    Again people want fame in the most time and cost efficient manner possible, it's just that simple. It's human nature and if all you do is nerf HCE to force OW people will zerg up till the cows come home to ensure that whatever dungeons they want to fame without interruption will be under complete and total lockdown. It will further perpetuate the already existing snowball that exits in this game.


    But please use the edge cases and outlier examples of HCE grinding to justify why it should be nerfed instead of looking at the issues of why people simply don't want to be in OW.
  • Isio wrote:

    True, but do you agree that in an oper world full loot pvp game a totally no risk (and, please, dont try to say that 150k per death for the repair is a real issue for somebody who can afford a 8.3 masterpiece set) instanced activity can’t be the most rewarding?
    Yes, absolutely this is a fair point. My issue isn't with the fundamental premise of the problem its the solution being sought for it. Nerfing or reducing the HCE rewards aren't the answer.

    Buffing OW is. The developers recognized this when they introduced tomes and made them an OW exclusive drop and the addition of roaming mobs. This is a good start and what I imagine will be a trend.

    If anything HCE activity should provide the developers a good dataset from which to extrapolate what players are doing on average in terms of fame and silver/hr and then simply look to replicate that in OW at a rate that is sufficiently higher than HCE and accounts for both theoritical maximum (uniterrupted) and actual likilhoods (pvp engagement/ x unit of time).


    One of the biggest things they could do is remove the IP cap from Red/Black HG and raise the IP cap of yellow HG to the current red/black IP cap. Then buff the rewards of both. They already are starting on this trend with YHG reworks on loot table.


    TL;DR

    There is no need to nerf HCE, if anything HCE represents a baseline standard from which to extrapolate rewards based on risk for the rest of OW activity.
  • You can argue that tomes of insight effect open world presence in dungeons just as much as HCE does. HCE does give a high amount of silver which most people spend on repairs, food, potions, maps, and gear upgrades that probably ends up in the hands of someone who does open world faming and pvp. I think open world has better loot than HCE and offers tomes too. If you kill HCEs I think this will hurt the game population because dungeon fame farm is boring and repetitive and HCEs offer a more engaged game play when fame farming that honestly can make players communicate better and in turn create more GvGers. HCEs are also an end game way to fame farm in my opinion because you got to be at least T8 and 80+ spec non-artifact and have the silver to buy decent gear. Also people are looking at the top percentage of HCE players and not the majority who probably don't even see fame better than what you can get open world. Even if you nerf the fame or silver for HCE they will still be the best simply for the fact that it is uninterrupted fame with 5 people. Lastly you will take away from players who don't have a solid guild or enough time to play the game; These players probably log on to do 1 or 2 HCE and then log off.
  • Isio wrote:

    I see people doing a respec of their builds for switching to hce builds just to famefarm their original builds. HCincEption.

    I think this is a huge snowball destroying the open world soul of the game, devs should seriously take into consideration these facts.
    No. This is not something that destroys open world.
    The fact the only purpose of open world pve is to make people target for pvp is destroying the open world.

    PvE is designed to be fun for PvP gropus.
    Thats why it is not fun for PvE groups.

    They even made all of the same tier dungeons have EXACTLY the same layout to make it easier for pvp groups to find someone inside.
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  • Targun wrote:

    ...
    PvE is designed to be fun for PvP gropus.
    Thats why it is not fun for PvE groups.

    They even made all of the same tier dungeons have EXACTLY the same layout to make it easier for pvp groups to find someone inside.

    I am not saying that this is something that I find desirable by any means. But I do think you are absolutely correct that this is how it has been orchestrated.
  • PudimAzul wrote:

    The problem is because It's profitable. If people want a better option for FF it's ok but you must pay for it.

    Ohhh but I paid 80m for it, ok but you will never lose it.

    This will make people do something else for profit and they leave the city to do it or buy gold.
    I generally agree with this.

    Fame should be relatively easy to get across the board. Obviously faming in the open world should be more rewarding than faming in the safety of Caerleon.

    Silver is the real endgame. Silver and crafting materials is what we should compete for.
    https://forum.albiononline.com/index.php/Thread/82954-Guide-What-order-to-level-items-in-to-get-the-most-specialization-for-your-time/
  • PudimAzul wrote:

    The problem is because It's profitable. If people want a better option for FF it's ok but you must pay for it.

    Ohhh but I paid 80m for it, ok but you will never lose it.

    This will make people do something else for profit and they leave the city to do it or buy gold.
    correct.

    I lose 150-200k in OW (sometimes once every 2 hrs, actually probably on AVG every 2-3 hrs) when I get ganked OW farming per my 6.1 set... (obviously in the BZs)

    If you give risk-free Instanced noPVP farm like HCE - then the silver costs have to be adjusted to be very expensive - to counter balance for the "no risk".

    Raithe wrote:

    I am not saying that this is something that I find desirable by any means. But I do think you are absolutely correct that this is how it has been orchestrated.
    You may not find it desirable, but thats the design of the game. Albion is "orchestrated" to have PVP (and gear trashing) as the main driving point of (PVE) economy. (keywords: PVP, PVE and driving point or synergy)

    So PVP drives PVE, and vice versa. If you separate both and break "the bond" - the game will get ruined as there will be no synergy, its same argument (which has been brought up on the forums) if you gave out combat fame in PVP (PVP people would never run PVE content) and if you gave risk-Free fame for PVE instanced activities - PVE people would never do PVP.

    Both groups would get separated and eventually die out...

    The intricacy of holding this fragile relationships between the PVE and the PVP folks - is what makes a great MMO. You can't force too much PVP, but you have to force a little. You can't create absolutely 100% risk free activities for the PVE people either. Being able to pull it off from a Developer side - I'd call that an art, really.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Captainrussia ().

  • I should have clarified. I was not talking about his first two statements at all. Pvp like pve, gathe3ring, or crafting is just one element of this game. Its a big one. But is no bigger than gathering for instance.

    I was referreing to this statement:
    "They even made all of the same tier dungeons have EXACTLY the same layout to make it easier for pvp groups to find someone inside."