[Updated] Overcharge Feature

    • [Updated] Overcharge Feature

      UPDATED 11/7/2018: Some new information regarding this mechanic was released to the round table. To ensure no unfairness in terms of the market situation, we're releasing the same information here:

      • Activating the overcharge mechanic will consume a small amount (currently 1) of Siphoned Energy, completely independently of what gear is overcharged
      • This acts as a price floor to ensure overcharging lower end gear has an associated cost higher than just the base cost of the item, allowing us to somewhat control and balance effectiveness overcharge on low end gear
      • This MAY have an influence on market prices of energy, although we don't anticipate significant impact at the expected amount of overcharges per day at the currently planned cost with the current energy yield from territories



      Hey everyone,

      I'd like to share some more details about the Overcharge feature we mentioned in this anouncement: Next Content Update: Merlyn


      What is Overcharging
      Overcharging is a new mechanic that allows players to temporarily increase an item's Item Power. BUT this comes with the risk of this item breaking after the boost duration.

      Example
      Overcharging your weapon, would give this weapon falt 100 IP bonus for 30 minutes. But after these 30 minutes have passed, the item will have a 15% chance to trash. (final values might be different, but just to give you a general idea of the direction)


      Details
      • You can overcharge all your equipment items at any time. There is no cast time or anything. It is pretty much instant and enemies can't prevent it. UI details are not decided yet, but it will likely be a new button in the UI and a short cut that is not easy to accidently hit. (something like CTRL+O)
      • Once an item is overcharged it gets an additional flat boost of 100 IP, independent from masteries or gear level
      • The overcharged status lasts for 30 minutes or until the player dies.
      • After the overcharge time is over the item will return to it's normal state and the game rolls the virtual dice to determine if this item is trashed. Trash chance is 15%
      • Upon death all overcharged items in the inventory will go back to their normal state. The overcharged status is also immediately ended without the additional destruction chance on top. Because dying already has a trash chance, there is no need for an additional roll. This means you will get the same amount of loot from killed players, regardless if they overcharged or not.
      • Overcharging has no extra economic cost. You only pay with the trash chance and a durability loss AFTER the overcharge finished.
      • All items from T4 and above can be overcharged for the following slots: mainhand, offhand, head, chest and shoes. (including Gatherer Gear)
      • Item Power gained by overcharge is also scaled down normally by cluster IP caps.



      Our Goal with Overcharging

      Current Situation
      PvP has an economic cost in Albion, the lost gear on death. Right now this economic burden is entirely put on any losing team / player in the game. Which leads to heavy snowballing, which is particularly stong in controlled PvP scenarios like GvGs or Hell Gates, but also affects the open world meta gear level.

      Let's say there is a very skilled team, let's call it Team A. They keep winning with no deaths on their side and they will have basically no economic costs. They only cash in the loot of their defeated enemies and accumulate more and more wealth over time. The richer team A then gets, the higher becomes the gear level they can afford to use. Thus dictating the gear level playing field for all other challengers. Which leads to an unhealthy cycle, where it becomes harder and harder for new players to catch up economically.


      What Overcharge changes
      Now there is Team B, they are similiarly skilled, but they are newer in the game and can only afford gear that is a tier lower. When they fight against Team A they can now choose to Overcharge their gear and fight them on equal levels. Allowing Team B to catch up. Of course Team A can now react by either not overcharging their gear and play on the same level or overcharge their more expensive gear, keeping their Item Power lead, but paying a price for the trashed gear even when they win.

      The additional overcharge costs really only matter for the survivng side in a fight. As an example: On live a losing hell gate team loses 100% of their gear. And the winner takes it all. Now if both sides overcharge, the losing team still loses 100% of their gear. But now the winner also has to pay the additional cost of their overcharged gear. Because of this additional cost for winners, it is likely that they decide to bring lower gear on average.

      If you assume both sides overcharge in clutch situations. The overcharging would be an additional economic cost, which only the winner has to pay. Therefore it is very likely that the meta gear level drops, because even with flawless victories it will become less sustainable to bring expensive gear in general in all situations.


      Economic Benefit
      The additional destruction of items increases the demand for items throughout all tiers, which is very healthy for the economy.

      Due to the build-in trash chance overcharging high end gear would be extremely expensive and probably only be used in very important battles. But even if one guild becomes so wealthy to be able to afford constantly overcharging 8.3 items, this guild would at least have a significant economic cost every time they do this, even if none of their players ever die. We think the chances are high that overcharging would become the norm in GvGs and Hell Gates. Which would really help reducing the economic snowballing currently happening in the game. And since even the winning teams have a constant economic upkeep it would likely also lead to a reduction in meta gear level across the board. Which would make it easier for new players to become competitve and Which is something we see as something very important to keep Albion Online in a healthy state longterm.


      I hope this clarifies most of the details and the intentions of this feature. :)


      Cheers,
      Retro

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Eltharyon ()

    • I generally support the gist of this idea but I'm not sure this is the best way to implement an anti-snowball mechanic.

      I certainly think this should either be limited to GvGs, or GvGs and HGs. OR you should bump the tier requirement up to at least T5 or T6.

      As it stands now in the OW, there's plenty of players running in 4.0 or 4.1 gear risking very little to gank other players. While I take part in this type of play style myself occasionally, I don't see any reason for buffing it. 4.1 gear is already cheap and disposable, why give it an essentially free 30 minute boost to IP?

      Really limiting the snowball effect should just be limited to GvGs more than any other type of PvP.
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    • Thank you for sharing this detailed reasoning, hopefully it will improve discussion around the issue.

      You mentioned durability loss, will this also be a loss mechanic, in addition to the trash chance? It would definitely make users think even more before activating it, and would be a more consistent cost to overcharging regularly (every time you use it you know there will be at least SOME cost in the form of repair fees).

      Overall I do like it as an anti-snowball mechanic, my main concern would be how it also increases costs for low tier players. But I suppose that will be balanced out by increased income from the low-tier resource market?
    • Retroman schrieb:

      Details


      You can overcharge all your equipment items at any time. There is no cast time or anything. It is pretty much instant and enemies can't prevent it. UI details are not decided yet, but it will likely be a new button in the UI and a short cut that is not easy to accidently hit. (something like CTRL+O)
      Is an option for Overcharge ALL items, or you can chose the items you want to Overcharge?
    • @Grimhawke

      They specifically say that they want to make lower tier gear more valuable. And as a result, it will also increase the cost of t4/4.1, which will make it less disposable (though probably not by much).

      So in essence, t4 will always be useful, and higher tiers will be luxuries for the rich that don't destroy t4's viability. It's kind of brilliant actually.

      Together with the fact that it further fuels Albion's equipment crafting economy, it feels like it will be a very positive change for Albion's long-term health.
    • Tilden schrieb:

      You mentioned durability loss, will this also be a loss mechanic, in addition to the trash chance? It would definitely make users think even more before activating it, and would be a more consistent cost to overcharging regularly (every time you use it you know there will be at least SOME cost in the form of repair fees).
      Yes, there will be a guaranteed durability loss after the activation. So it always comes at a cost. The final value for the durability loss has to be decided yet, but we are currently thinking something around 30%

      LordSilva schrieb:


      Is an option for Overcharge ALL items, or you can chose the items you want to Overcharge?
      The default setting is, once you press CTRL+O you overcharge all equipped gear, that can be overcharged. However you can also disable specific slots in the option menu, so you can for instance set it to overcharge but your weapon.
    • I hope the implementation of this Overcharge feature has a 15% chance of trashing.... or much much higher.

      The most troubling aspects:
      -the boost to gankers (who already risk nothing in their 4.1 ~$20k gear set. I occasionally partake in this and there is no reason to give out an extra advantage)
      -Fame Farm open world pvp (I see groups auto popping this feature whenever getting contact. Even the winning side will have to go back to town 30 minutes after a skirmish because of their own gear trashing.... down time / travel time is already obnoxious in this game)
      -the fact that the feature is FREE... make it cost silver, a decent amount of silver per item and then it helps the economy with BOTH commodities (does dev know that there are TWO commodities in this game... silver AND gathering resources.... gear trashing only removes resources. Then, silver just changes hands when people re-gear through the auction house. Where are the silver sinks? Repair bills... psh).

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 5 mal editiert, zuletzt von Draggle ()

    • I understand the reasoning behind having an economic cost associated for winning teams, but this is kind of a band-aid solution to a much larger problem and I don't think it's going to work for what you're intending it to do.

      If this is truly for an economic anti-snowball mechanism, you need to make it only apply to gvgs. Leave open world alone and don't ruin hellgates anymore than you already have with the IP cap.

      Retroman schrieb:

      The additional overcharge costs really only matter for the survivng side in a fight. As an example: On live a losing hell gate team loses 100% of their gear. And the winner takes it all. Now if both sides overcharge, the losing team still loses 100% of their gear. But now the winner also has to pay the additional cost of their overcharged gear. Because of this additional cost for winners, it is likely that they decide to bring lower gear on average.
      Last patch brought 6.1 hellgates for red/black. This is gonna do what now - 5.1 hellgates? Come the fuck on.
    • Fusionbomb schrieb:

      It's almost like they compiled a roster of well-known long-term players in an internal discussion board, who were willing to represent the rest of the playerbase, in an effort to improve the game as a whole.


      Amazeballs.
      Except they could have had the same discussion on a public board, but they don't. They can select who to listen to in either case. Making it internal just hides it from the rest of us. Internal opinion panels are bad enough, secret ones are vomit inducing.

      How would anyone know this had anything to do with that anyhow? We can't know. I mean we could, but we aren't allowed to. I bet they don't even talk about the game much at all. They probably just critique each others Witcher fan fiction.
    • It's easier to gather the people that give good feedback on a regular basis in one place, while accepting feedback from everyone else through the regular feedback form. You still have a voice, but they don't have to dig through the trolls and garbage posts on these forums. <X

      I bet they talk about the game more than you're willing to believe or accept. ^^
      Fusionbomb - GM of Morbidly_Obese

      My DAoC characters
    • Piddle schrieb:

      Fusionbomb schrieb:

      It's almost like they compiled a roster of well-known long-term players in an internal discussion board, who were willing to represent the rest of the playerbase, in an effort to improve the game as a whole.


      Amazeballs.
      Except they could have had the same discussion on a public board, but they don't. They can select who to listen to in either case. Making it internal just hides it from the rest of us. Internal opinion panels are bad enough, secret ones are vomit inducing.
      How would anyone know this had anything to do with that anyhow? We can't know. I mean we could, but we aren't allowed to. I bet they don't even talk about the game much at all. They probably just critique each others Witcher fan fiction.
      Plus to be honest, most people 70% or more dont really know the end game, might never get there or doesnt care about it :3...
    • So.. just to get this straight, for zero additional upfront cost and only the 15% trash chance you can overcharge an 8.1 set to 8.3 equivalent.

      Now not only does the opposing team have to fight what is essentially 8.3, they will only get 8.1 gear as a reward, and likely even less than the normal amount of 8.1 gear if you scale the trash chance up (which you will have to do).

      So if you beat a team running overcharged gear, you have to fight a much harder fight for even less reward.

      This... this seems balanced to you?


      This also completely ignores the fact that richer guilds can now run 8.2 overcharged to be what is essentially 8.3 MP at the average cost of 1 piece of gear and absolutely roll over newer teams trying out GvGs in 8.1. And even if the newer team outplayed the hell out of them being 2-3 tiers down, they get the same basic loot, instead of loot at the gear level they had to fight. The effort/reward ratio for PvP is completely ruined by this.
    • Kantos, you are mistaken.

      Kantos schrieb:

      they will only get 8.1 gear as a reward, and likely even less than the normal amount of 8.1 gear if you scale the trash chance up (which you will have to do).
      Did you not read the post? The losing teams gear won't trash any extra amount if it's overcharged. It only hurts your reward if you, yourself, overcharged your weapons. And you win (of course).

      Your second point also makes no sense. If the newer team overcharges, they close the power gap without losing anything unless they win. If they DO win, they still get a lot of good loot, even if they pay with some of their own gear. So this helps newer teams compete in terms of IP.

      If the older team also overcharges, the power gap remains the same, but if this older team continues to win with their advantage, they at least pay to do so. They can't confidently roll out in full 8.3 because they have little thread of actually losing any gear.

      Perhaps you should actually read the post?
    • Kantos schrieb:

      ...richer guilds can now run 8.2 overcharged to be what is essentially 8.3 MP at the average cost of 1 piece of gear and absolutely roll over newer teams trying out GvGs in 8.1. And even if the newer team outplayed the hell out of them being 2-3 tiers down, they get the same basic loot, instead of loot at the gear level they had to fight. The effort/reward ratio for PvP is completely ruined by this.
      Agreed. Although I can see the reasoning for this, it does little to stop the kind of snowballing people are complaining about. People are less bothered about the random teams doing HGs in higher gear (surely the IP caps stop this issue already?) And more about the super rich guilds who are uncompetitive due to their financial advantage. They have so much capital and income through their huge player bases that they will still be able to run their high tier gear except it will now be even more powerful. Anti-snowball mechanics that are based on micro-player changes will result in further instability. I'd suggest making macro changes like further soft caps, more accessibility through different content (scrims/arena maps etc) or even potentially limiting alliance numbers/capping max silver/high end silver sink (expensive pay to enter BZ OW dungeon with good fame, lethal mobs and a high gear req? This would be a silver and item sink, provide end game content, PvP and PVE, and help ensure T7+ gear is still valuable after boosting lower tiers with overcharge -you also couldn't overcharge your items in there as you'd need to take too many extra sets in case they trashed as the dung would take longer than 30 mins to farm) so people don't have a limitless supply.

      If the intention is to make GvG is to be truly more skill based, why not remove IP all together and just make all items T.X equivalent?

      The issue with ganking/powering low tiers is also important. I currently solo 2v2s in flat 4 and can often get kills. This will now be even easier with very little incentive not to overcharge.

      It removes some element of the progression which is not good for a game which is built around it.

      My suggestion would be that if this is going to happen, make it for at least T5, ideally T6 (which is pretty easy to obtain) and that overcharging as to be done at the repair station in a town but then perhaps lasts 15mins longer to balance this. This will stop people using it as much for ganking. A scalable silver cost would also be useful as a silver sink and to prevent T8 abuse. All of this will also help ensure the feature fulfils it purpose.

      @Retroman

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 3 mal editiert, zuletzt von Bastyon ()

    • I think that you could achieve the opposite of what you are intending with this feature, at least for activities outside GvGs and HGs.
      In open world scenarios this could easily make ppl with alot of silver even more superior than they are today compared to newer players or other players that dont have that much silver.
      I mean everyone who has the money will for sure overcharge in nearly every pvp encounter. Poorer/newer players might be far more reluctant to use the feature.
      Id suggest to think about restricting this feature to GvGs and maybe HGs, but no other open world encounters.
    • FriendlyFire schrieb:

      Kantos schrieb:

      they will only get 8.1 gear as a reward, and likely even less than the normal amount of 8.1 gear if you scale the trash chance up (which you will have to do).
      Did you not read the post? The losing teams gear won't trash any extra amount if it's overcharged. It only hurts your reward if you, yourself, overcharged your weapons. And you win (of course).
      Yes I read the post, you clearly didn't read mine while quoting it which is just impressive. I bolded it for you. "likely even less than the normal amount of 8.1 gear IF you scale the trash chance up". Which is a very reasonable hypothetical given in the post you apparently didn't read it says "(final values might be different, but just to give you a general idea of the direction)". Which means that they might indeed plan to scale the trash chance up.

      And how do you fail to see how this hurts your reward? Now because of overcharge, you can fight someone in 8.3 IP level of gear, when they are wearing 8.1 gear that is overcharged. This means you fight a much harder fight for less of a reward than you would have previously gotten. Instead of getting 8.3 gear for defeating someone fighting at an 8.3 level, you get 8.1 gear.


      FriendlyFire schrieb:

      Your second point also makes no sense. If the newer team overcharges, they close the power gap without losing anything unless they win. If they DO win, they still get a lot of good loot, even if they pay with some of their own gear. So this helps newer teams compete in terms of IP.


      If the older team also overcharges, the power gap remains the same, but if this older team continues to win with their advantage, they at least pay to do so. They can't confidently roll out in full 8.3 because they have little thread of actually losing any gear.
      Did you read my second point?

      I'm talking about if a richer established guild overcharges vs a newer guild that does not (notice I simply said a newer guild using 8.1, not mention of them overcharging it). This widens the gap even more unless you want to force newer teams to have to use this feature. And if they do somehow manage to win they only get 8.2 gear instead of the 8.3MP gear level they were fighting against, and which might have given them the sets needed to finally fight on an equal footing.

      In short this feature makes winning a fight much less rewarding than it should be as you get a much lower gear reward from fighting overcharged players than the level of gear level you are fighting against. Picture right now you fight someone who is in 8.3, and instead you get 8.1 from their corpses after a very hard fight. That is going to feel awful and will make it so newer guilds even if they do win vs overcharged established guilds get much worse loot than they should, which since they have less resources to work with could make the gap even worse.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Kantos ()