[Updated] Overcharge Feature

    • owensssss schrieb:

      Parties max 20 players and zvzs consist of multiple parties fighting multiple parties.

      so no, Party size vs assist system won’t work.
      I’d always end up with more assists on my death than my party size

      Can’t go by players in cluster as obviously there no way to tell who was in the fight or just running thru the zone.

      trash rates based like bladibigouds seem pretty fun.
      i agree that multiple parties fighting multiple parties would be the biggest problem for this kind of mechanic but when i said "cluster" i tought you misunderstood what i wanted to say. AO devs call maps Clusters. But actually a cluster can be any spot in the world.
      The space occupied by a blob can be a cluster inside another cluster(the whole map).
      By understanding this division, good math and good coding could be used in order to make the calculation for gear trash scaling be as near to optimum as it could.
      Even with one or another flaw, here and there, i still think its worth a shot. Or at least much more than the fucked up overcharge idea,if trash rates is all its about.
      Artificial intelligence will never beat natural stupidiy.
    • Question: How the problem with winning fights and losing gear will be adressed to?

      Because having spare gear in every warcamp in the world doesnt look like something that would be very attractive to anyone.
      Knowing that if you dont put sets of gear in every warcamp will make you have disadvantage against someone who did horse simulator for 24hours straight and did so, would be even worse.
      Should we now make queues instead of fighting for HGs?

      LOL.
      Artificial intelligence will never beat natural stupidiy.
    • Gugusteh schrieb:

      Seraphimos schrieb:

      You can always tweek these numbers first of all, i chosed random nubers. It always can be that 100+ assists = 90% trash etc. And you should consider you rarely have more than 30 assists even i huge zvzs.And in huge zvzs main reward is not loot from the enemies (its either worldboss,warcamp,claim etc), thats why it makes sense. Yeah you will get less loot from huge zvzs, but it will be new gearsink without mechanics that potentially can break game balance.
      Lol you don't ZvZ apparently my dude...Try to let that kind of stuff to ppl who actually know ZvZ.
      Just so you know: i have 70 assists on average on my zvz deaths. And i do a lot of small scale too reducing that average.
      Im pretty sure, that im at least have decent knowlege about zvz and still more than you.



      The reason i going to zvz is not loot, so i dont care if there will be 100% trash.
      That mechanic will stimulate craft alot and its good. Right now its cheaper to buy gear, than craft it even with focus, couse people sell loot from zvz for half price. And higher chance of trashing in huge zvz will help this situation.
      Also small scale pvp will be still ok, so smaller guilds and gangers which go for loot mostly will be still fine.
      If you consider enemy gear as reward for zvz, i feel sorry for you.
      Time rolls on. Wipe these eyes. Yesterday laughs. Tomorrow cries.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Seraphimos ()

    • Seraphimos schrieb:

      Im pretty sure, that im at least have decent knowlege about zvz and still more than you.


      The reason i going to zvz is not loot, so i dont care if there will be 100% trash.
      That mechanic will stimulate craft alot and its good. Right now its cheaper to buy gear, than craft it even with focus, couse people sell loot from zvz for half price. And higher chance of trashing in huge zvz will help this situation.
      Also small scale pvp will be still ok, so smaller guilds and gangers which go for loot mostly will be still fine.
      If you consider enemy gear as reward for zvz, i feel sorry for you.
      Sorry to disappoint, that's not more than me ;)

      I'm not going to ZvZ for loot but for the fight, i don't care about the objectives themselves, and loot is only a reward for the winner, if you remove loot from ZvZ, it would be more interesting to go to inis moon.
      Just because you don't loot, just because you don't fight for loot, just because some randoms sell loot for nothing, doesn't mean loot has not importance.
      Especially in a full loot PvP game
    • Indeed the prices are low because of labourées + focus + masterpiece (the crafters are selling the bad quality lower) check the ZaZii guide to know more about.
      The prices are already low and the guys who are looting just put it a little bit lower to make sure they sell it quick .
      [img]https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/376587121433247744/419555473512071189/unknown.png?width=743&height=418[/img][url='https://goo.gl/NTwgpR']My OP STUFF and OP silver[/url]
    • Neu

      higher cost and higher trash rate for overcharged low tier equipment seems fair enough but maybe it could be problematic because we could probably see overcharged T8s all around, butchering the low tier people and thats exactly the opposite of what SBI expects from the overcharge feature, that is making lower tier people able to compete with high tier people and increasing the trash rate of the items.
      this overcharge idea is so shitty that even good ideas to make it less bad end up making it even worse.
      Artificial intelligence will never beat natural stupidiy.
    • Neu

      Silks schrieb:

      higher cost and higher trash rate for overcharged low tier equipment seems fair enough but maybe it could be problematic because we could probably see overcharged T8s all around, butchering the low tier people and thats exactly the opposite of what SBI expects from the overcharge feature, that is making lower tier people able to compete with high tier people and increasing the trash rate of the items.
      this overcharge idea is so shitty that even good ideas to make it less bad end up making it even worse.
      i agree on many levels, but it could be balanced by adding anti-ganking nerfs during a weapon's overcharge as in decreasing run/attack speed, and also shortening the duration of stun abilities coinciding w/ the weapon. like i said, it stops ganking to and from both sides. Higher the tier, the less chance of breaking, but the less of a buff. this also goes along with what brick said. there are good ideas here, less banter and more done :)

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Windoen ()

    • Neu

      High trash rate would be great for zvz. ZvZ and loot distribution has been a headache in many alliance since forever. Some alliances name a select few to be able to loot everything, others ban looters, some don't enforce but are still frustrated by it.

      Honestly I wouldnt mind if there was 100% trash rate for zvz if you want to stimulate the economy, it would reduce a lot of unnecessary noise from ZvZs and would make people focus more on the objective than on who gets the most loot out of a fight.


      The overcharge mechanic however, i'm not exactly sure why you are introducing it and I feel that you're not openly explaining your true reasoning.

      Overcharge benefits anyone who decides when engagement happens in openworld:
      1) Dungeon diving parties will always overcharge, making blackzone fame farming even less interesting to most players
      2) CV/BB etc. trolls will overcharge

      Side impact is that GvG costs will go up. for both sides.

      My prediction is that the overcharge will make Albion openworld even less interesting and people will gravitate even more towards HCEs.
    • Neu

      tabooshka schrieb:

      Karmac schrieb:

      Honestly I wouldnt mind if there was 100% trash rate
      might as well play non full loot game, try WoW.
      Where in WoW do you lose all of your items on death? What do you even know about ZvZs since arent you a SUN member?


      Now that we got the useless personal stabs out of the way, i can translate your response so we get the discussion forward:

      ----
      Tabooshka wanted to write:

      I disagree with 100% trash rate, i feel that getting loot is important part of the gameplay experience
      ----

      The 100% trash rate was just an extreme example. I feel that the ZvZ fights would just benefit from increased trashrate, people usually go for these fights for the fight/objective and not the loot.

      We could say that the trash rate could be 30% and the players could still get their loot.. however more stuff would trash in the process boosting the economy. Problem here ofcourse would be that it would skew the market towards ZvZ gear as the price would go up (more demand) and would only work together with the overcharge mechanic in GvG/HG (but now excluded from openworld) to increase trash rate on that side of the market.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 6 mal editiert, zuletzt von Karmac ()

    • Neu

      This needs self balancing to make it work dynamically and create potentially interesting economic content. The higher tier gear needs a lower trash rate to simulate that the higher gear is harder to destroy and at the same time push the meta higher fighting lower tier gear ganking practices. But fixing values for each tier is not really interesting as it's static and soon people will just figure out the most efficient way to balance it out, and done with it. I would suggest to make it dynamic based on meaningful parameters that adjust the thrash rate once every day, depending on those parameters. This could be the crafting amount of a certain tier that day in the whole world, the system internally does calculate all item generated, the tiers will higher quantity generate (because it's popular) the most popular tiers will increase the trash rate of 1% the next day (or whatever % makes sense), the less popular ones will decrease 1%. And as the economic fluctuate and strategic crafting and economy will manipulate the % trash rate for each tier. Obviously up to SBI the complexity, which could be more complex/deeper segmentation to make strategy harder to control and stagnate (for example different trash rates depending on which royal areas or black continents you are fighting.

      This will kind of self balance (or better say self-adjust on the global scenario for each day) but still offers strategic and economic elements that might make this feature something more interesting to play with. I think the broaded concept is similarly applied to the black market already
      Synced Onetyper

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    • Neu

      Synced schrieb:

      This needs self balancing to make it work dynamically and create potentially interesting economic content. The higher tier gear needs a lower trash rate to simulate that the higher gear is harder to destroy and at the same time push the meta higher fighting lower tier gear ganking practices. But fixing values for each tier is not really interesting as it's static and soon people will just figure out the most efficient way to balance it out, and done with it. I would suggest to make it dynamic based on meaningful parameters that adjust the thrash rate once every day, depending on those parameters. This could be the crafting amount of a certain tier that day in the whole world, the system internally does calculate all item generated, the tiers will higher quantity generate (because it's popular) the most popular tiers will increase the trash rate of 1% the next day (or whatever % makes sense), the less popular ones will decrease 1%. And as the economic fluctuate and strategic crafting and economy will manipulate the % trash rate for each tier. Obviously up to SBI the complexity, which could be more complex/deeper segmentation to make strategy harder to control and stagnate (for example different trash rates depending on which royal areas or black continents you are fighting.

      This will kind of self balance (or better say self-adjust on the global scenario for each day) but still offers strategic and economic elements that might make this feature something more interesting to play with. I think the broaded concept is similarly applied to the black market already

      If the most crafted items get more % chance to trash then people will have to create even more of those items to replace them ensuring it'll get crafted more than other items which means it'll get an even higher trash % as time goes on.
      Am I missing something or do you want specific items to trash literally every time?
    • Neu

      ViLEuo schrieb:

      Synced schrieb:

      This needs self balancing to make it work dynamically and create potentially interesting economic content. The higher tier gear needs a lower trash rate to simulate that the higher gear is harder to destroy and at the same time push the meta higher fighting lower tier gear ganking practices. But fixing values for each tier is not really interesting as it's static and soon people will just figure out the most efficient way to balance it out, and done with it. I would suggest to make it dynamic based on meaningful parameters that adjust the thrash rate once every day, depending on those parameters. This could be the crafting amount of a certain tier that day in the whole world, the system internally does calculate all item generated, the tiers will higher quantity generate (because it's popular) the most popular tiers will increase the trash rate of 1% the next day (or whatever % makes sense), the less popular ones will decrease 1%. And as the economic fluctuate and strategic crafting and economy will manipulate the % trash rate for each tier. Obviously up to SBI the complexity, which could be more complex/deeper segmentation to make strategy harder to control and stagnate (for example different trash rates depending on which royal areas or black continents you are fighting.

      This will kind of self balance (or better say self-adjust on the global scenario for each day) but still offers strategic and economic elements that might make this feature something more interesting to play with. I think the broaded concept is similarly applied to the black market already
      If the most crafted items get more % chance to trash then people will have to create even more of those items to replace them ensuring it'll get crafted more than other items which means it'll get an even higher trash % as time goes on.
      Am I missing something or do you want specific items to trash literally every time?
      If it gets crafted a lot not only it's going to worth less in the market as there are more items selling, so over supply but also will increase it's trash rate which it will make it less interesting to use and therefore push it price lower in the market, it will reach a point where is not going to be worth to craft or very low profit, and therefore better items at different tiers will emerge as they have reduce both their trash rate as under-used items, but also less produced in the market, so focus shift dynamically in the meta of alternating items sets and tiers. this can potentially create an interesting economic game for speculation, pushing things left and right all the time.

      It could be even better if segmented between areas of a region, like areas of cumbria/mercia, and areas belonging to each royal city, with a different thrash rate calculation for each, that will create additional variables to track for trading, and balance trash effectiveness of tiers in each region and therefore price/quantity availability, which could stimulate even more good trading and usage between difference areas.

      So no, not trashing everytime, every tier will adjust its value of all tiers in all regions with let's say a nightly server job (cronjob type of activity if you are familiar with the term), and today t4 items in carleon are 15%, and t5 items are 20%, t4 is currently more effective, used more, in a week time t4 is 25% trash rate, but t5 not being used much drop to a trash rate of 15%, becomes a great choice and a shift of focus for crafters, fighters, and traders, at some point t6 is being underused, and gain popularity, and maybe again t4 items are back into the game dominance. You just don't know what guilds and trader/crafers will do as a whole to manipulate all that. Making a lot more interesting to me.

      If SBI want to make this all trackable by users, they can create a little board in each city you can interact with, perhaps needs to pay some silver, and will tell you the trash rate in each region for each tier, or perhaps based on the adventurer tier of the character, so a character with adventurer tier 4, can see only up to T4 trash chances in the board, but t8 can see up to t8.
      Synced Onetyper

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    • Neu

      So here is an idea (based on others) about overcharge trashrate.
      base gear trash rate could be 18%,
      Reduce this trash rate accordingly with the item power without the specs factor.
      let's say every 100 ip = 1%
      so 700ip gear would have 18% - 7% = 11% trash rate
      while 1300 ip gear will have 20% -13% = 5% trash rate.
      But: every 5 minute, while overcharge is active a roll happens

      Making overcharge Toggleable could add an interesting management of this feature:
      - if toggled on: every 5 min a roll happens (with the reduced trashrate from above)
      - when toggleing off another roll happens
      why is it interesting?
      - in GvG: fights lasts more than 5 minutes atleast. If a team decides to overcharge at the beginning of the GvG they may have to pay the price of the overcharge before the end of the GvG (overcharge needs to be well thought, even if gear is nothing to you)
      - in OW: a 4.1 ganker will have to think when toggleing his overcharge, if he does it too early he will have his gear for only 5mins, and with the increased trashrate on low gear, the results will surely be a trashing.

      All number can be adapted for more ridk/ less risk...
      1. What do you think of that?
    • Neu

      Gugusteh schrieb:

      So here is an idea (based on others) about overcharge trashrate.
      base gear trash rate could be 18%,
      Reduce this trash rate accordingly with the item power without the specs factor.
      let's say every 100 ip = 1%
      so 700ip gear would have 18% - 7% = 11% trash rate
      while 1300 ip gear will have 20% -13% = 5% trash rate.
      But: every 5 minute, while overcharge is active a roll happens

      Making overcharge Toggleable could add an interesting management of this feature:
      - if toggled on: every 5 min a roll happens (with the reduced trashrate from above)
      - when toggleing off another roll happens
      why is it interesting?
      - in GvG: fights lasts more than 5 minutes atleast. If a team decides to overcharge at the beginning of the GvG they may have to pay the price of the overcharge before the end of the GvG (overcharge needs to be well thought, even if gear is nothing to you)
      - in OW: a 4.1 ganker will have to think when toggleing his overcharge, if he does it too early he will have his gear for only 5mins, and with the increased trashrate on low gear, the results will surely be a trashing.

      All number can be adapted for more ridk/ less risk...
      1. What do you think of that?

      Hommie, you lost the whole point. The percentage of trash should increase in fact as the IP increases without adding the spec factor.

      This feature is designed to reduce snowballing.

      Regards!
      Farmer.