Where are my Archers at? Oh right forced out

  • I played with bows for a while before arcane became a more powerful ranged choice for me. What I felt was that trading away the extra slot was nowhere near worth what the bow provided, with the exception of certain situations in group pvp.

    Bows have some very potent skills but the range is lacking as is kiting ability. One can kite better using throwing knives than with a bow because of the speed skill, which seems a little silly. Bow play lacks high mobility / attack speed and needs good range on its abilities. Perhaps these things should be a benefit of wearing leather armor rather than wielding a bow on its own. Armor can only provide some minor speed (nowhere near that of throwing knives) and does little for range.

    They aren't terrible weapons anymore, they just don't play in a way that caters to a ranged style really well. I'd still use throwing knives and an orb over a bow for ranged physical any day.
  • Leka wrote:

    The meta is to use Fast Shot, Pinning Shot and Disorienting shot in ur T5 or T6 bow instead of Volley+Snipe. That way u get 1k+ burst on plate and 1.5k+ burst on cloth.

    Best way to buff bows in my opinion would be to change one or two skills to magic damage so they would do more dmg on plate.


    I can see that being pretty effective. Seems like bows could go one of two ways, heavy single target bursts like you said, or perhaps more agile kiting with lighter, faster attacks/stuns similar to throwing knives. I played as a skirmisher in Darkfall so maybe I am biased, but using a bow just doesn't feel nearly as quick or fun for me as it did in that game. I suppose Albion and DF are kind of apples and oranges, though.

    I do like the idea of a choice between magic and physical damage. I mentioned a vague thought about that in combination with other specialized gear in the thread about set bonuses.
  • Bows need a damage buff in almost every ability, regardless if its physical or magic, it still is weak compared to any other weapon, or most balanced depending how you look at it.
    If the devs are going to nerf every weapon we currently have in the game by about 30%, then bows will suddenly be up to par, but as of right now, why would anyone use archery besides using throwing knives if you don't have a horse to get around.....

    Im sure as hell not going to be using Knives to PvP doing 50 dmg on plate while a scythe does 2k+ burst on leather.....

    Also the progression of bows seems silly... we got regular bow, war bow and long bow progressions, i think they should all be put into one tree, its annoying to have to get a warbow to try to get to a longbow, or get a regular bow to try to just level that because its cheaper. The damage/skills don't give you big enough benefit to use a warbow/long bow over regular bow anyways so im not even sure what is the point of that. Also the crossbow needs to be in the archery section.... How can you explain yourselves that the best ranged weapon is not in the archers skill tree... Jesus game is so one sided that even the warrior skill tree has the best ranged weapon.....

    Range needs an improvement on its aoe as well, i feel like warbows aoe is too slow and does not do enough damage, i like the aoe size of it, but waiting for 3 damage waves is not good enough to merge into a different ranged skill tree.

    I feel like maybe if they added some effects of frost/fire or something like that, maybe certain bows would have frost effect slowing enemies on hit, which would help to kite without any real changes to movement speed/distance of those attacks. As of right now, the next alpha il be rushing glacial staff/or meatball:) or going straight warrior build since its been the most OP.
  • This was my first alpha test but I do have to agree with everything being said. As a brand new player with fresh opinions I felt the bow was extremely weak compared to other ranged weapons especially most magical staffs. I felt the skill line from leather is luck laster and had nothing on the skills from plate and cloth. I believe leather needs a good look at and upgrade. I played the game after the bow 'buff' was applied. While using the bow compared to everything else I tried I killed slower and had more downtime than anything else and got hit harder running full leather.

    I really hope you continue to look at the Bow aspect also leather upgrades as its in the same skill line. I really hope we get scout role or speed buff, something for us to be actually useful :)
    A VIKING GOD...
  • I think it's awesome that each tree offers a variety of different weapons. I'm so glad that the developers have avoided the trap of bland, boring planning, and lumping all the similar items together.

    It's not the 'Archer Tree', it's the 'Hunter's Lodge', and it's full of stuff that hunter's have traditonally used, from bows, to spears, to torches and even knives. That makes sense.

    Similarly, the 'Warrior's Forge' is full of stuff that have been more the domain of professional soldiers, such as swords, hammers, and yes, even crossbows. That, too, makes sense.

    Keep in mind the practical importance of these choices. It is far, far easier for a full tank to branch out into ranged weapons when they are sat at T4 in his own skill tree than to unlock a skill in a completely different tree. And this is a good thing.
  • Those are actually very good points. Its not unreasonable for dedicated warrior equipment to be superior to hunting equipment, with regards to combat.

    Having said that, hunters lodge equipment would need some sort of buff/advantage in order to make it a viable choice. The simplest thing to do would be making hunters lodge equipment much much cheaper. T5 hunters gear = t3 warriors gear in cost.

    its not as good, but you can wear higher tier gear and still replace it relativly easily. Unlike a full set of plate and greathammer.

    Also perhaps consider adding some more hunterlike scouting and skirmishing abilities, particulary to the inferior leather armor. How about a unbalanced and op ability "Tracking" added to leather chest. Shows the location of all other players in cluster as little dots on the mini map, 5 second duration, and a long 30 second cooldown.

    There u go, hunters now have a role in pvp, to hunt players. Some other non-combat related abilities/buffs might make the hunters lodge a useful strategic choice.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Funkcikle ().

  • Funkcikle wrote:

    Those are actually very good points. Its not unreasonable for dedicated warrior equipment to be superior to hunting equipment, with regards to combat.

    Having said that, hunters lodge equipment would need some sort of buff/advantage in order to make it a viable choice. The simplest thing to do would be making hunters lodge equipment much much cheaper. T5 hunters gear = t3 warriors gear in cost.

    its not as good, but you can wear higher tier gear and still replace it relativly easily. Unlike a full set of plate and greathammer.



    Or they could just balance bows into the meta.
  • Cost should NEVER be a balancing mechanic.... If something costs less it should not be weaker or if it costs more it should not be stronger.

    Just more variety in abilities.
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻) Riot!1!

    Mar 2nd 2015 - Hi @Pagodin ,

    very good formatting. Makes it easy to quickly get what you are aiming for.
    Consider yourself as part of the pvp testing team (in case you want to)!

    Kr,
    Stefan
  • Pagodin wrote:

    Cost should NEVER be a balancing mechanic.... If something costs less it should not be weaker or if it costs more it should not be stronger.

    Just more variety in abilities.


    Sad part is, it is a balancing mechanic currently with weapons (i.e. Bows<Warbows<Longbows) based on price rather than just having variance in functionality such as bows attacking faster, longbows attacking further etc. .
  • Luci wrote:

    Sad part is, it is a balancing mechanic currently with weapons (i.e. Bows<Warbows<Longbows) based on price rather than just having variance in functionality such as bows attacking faster, longbows attacking further etc. .


    Thats just poor game design. as the tier gets higher the weapon should get stronger (in damage/heals) BUT as you get a different variation on the weapon "Bow/Warbow/Longbow" you should get access to more skills (some might be more powerful other bow type) But the base strength of each should be the same. I also dont like the Uncommon/Rare weapon stuff at all. it just promotes making higher cost weapons being The weapon to use cause it makes the others crap in comparison.
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻) Riot!1!

    Mar 2nd 2015 - Hi @Pagodin ,

    very good formatting. Makes it easy to quickly get what you are aiming for.
    Consider yourself as part of the pvp testing team (in case you want to)!

    Kr,
    Stefan
  • Why should cost never be used for balancing ?

    "weak things should never cost less than strong things"

    What ?, that makes no sense to me, but i've probbaly failed to grasp your point.

    Don't you think that there is some danger with all this "balancing" that you get overly homogenised weapons which are essentially all the same, and just have different pictures.

    in which case we might as well all just get given the same thing, a pointed stick for poking and a burlap sack to wear.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Funkcikle ().

  • If you are going to quote me then actually QUOTE ME!

    go back and find the quote of me saying "weak things should never cost less than strong things"

    my quote is "If something costs less it should not be weaker or if it costs more it should not be stronger. Just more variety in abilities. "

    People will choose a different weapon for the abilities it has and the look it has. Instead of what you want because its the most expensive and does the most damage....

    Do you fear balance and just want to find the OP weapon first so you can get some kills up?
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻) Riot!1!

    Mar 2nd 2015 - Hi @Pagodin ,

    very good formatting. Makes it easy to quickly get what you are aiming for.
    Consider yourself as part of the pvp testing team (in case you want to)!

    Kr,
    Stefan
  • nope I want cheap underpowered gear so I have a waterproof excuse when I die and can re-gear with minimum expense.

    I'm a realist :)

    Also, I don't have to quote you if I don't want to. I dunno where you live, but here its a free country :thumbsup:

    Also Also,do you fear people having different opinions to yours ?, personally my biggest Fear is... I'm not telling you.

    On a serious note, What is balance, and what is OP ? I don't mind items having distinct and quite profound advantages, is specific tactical situations, provided they have an equally profound disadvantage in another situation. Then the trick comes in engineering your gameplay to always engage in the situation that favors you. Thats just Strategy. Obviously the problem arises when some item is clearly superior, or inferior in every situation. However if u broaden the scope of how you look at it, then cost can be a viable balancing mechanic.

    "If something costs less it should not be weaker or if it costs more it should not be stronger. Just more variety in abilities. " - this is what you say, I think you are wrong.
    If i pay more for something I want it to be stronger, and I would expect the cheaper thing to be inferior, just as it is in every aspect of life, saying otherwise is weird and nonsensical. As for finding the OP weapon and getting some kills up , sure, defiantly, I would be well up for that, Hit me up ingame if you find something like that bro.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Funkcikle ().

  • Funkcikle wrote:

    Why should cost never be used for balancing ?

    "weak things should never cost less than strong things"

    What ?, that makes no sense to me, but i've probbaly failed to grasp your point..




    you really dont understand much do you. You posted " " like you quoted me when it was something i never said.
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻) Riot!1!

    Mar 2nd 2015 - Hi @Pagodin ,

    very good formatting. Makes it easy to quickly get what you are aiming for.
    Consider yourself as part of the pvp testing team (in case you want to)!

    Kr,
    Stefan