In depth Lancelot Feedback

  • In depth Lancelot Feedback

    0. Tome of Insight
    In beta 2, you could make a character, give it premium and given enough time, log in and literally click a few buttons and become a T8 gatherer or fire mage or whatever you wanted.
    In Beta 3 is was acknowledged to not be within what devs envisioned of LP, a tool to help catch up but not skip the grind. The solution was to make LP usable after 30%, this way you still had to grind 30%, meaning you had to be active.

    Tome of Insight would be great if it gave LP, it would just fit in perfectly with current system, instead it gives raw fame. Guilds can be forced to donate ToI or have taxes set high to fund buying those and just spamming fresh alts into 100 specs GVG machines. This not only creates a bigger gap between now big and upcoming guilds, but it eliminates gameplay.

    Adding to this, let's just assume you're a new player, now you can literally dump your wallet to buy gold, sell your gold ingame and tadaa, T8 anything!!!

    Is it expensive? Yes, but there's still people with a lot of money to throw and if P2W is an option, it will be used, MMOs aren't a new thing and we've seen basically everything.

    1. Fishing
    Fishing is great fun and alongside the other open world buffs it really makes the maps feel alive. One thing is odd however, fishing is counted as a gathering profession yet it behaves differently in many ways, such as:

    -It levels differently, like crafting / combat, to get T5 mining you just need to unluck the node, which counts as a specialization node after, but for fishing you need to get 10 "masteries" to get T5 (30 for T6 and so on).
    -You can eat fish to level up, but other professions don't allow you to eat ore or fiber to level. (More on this later)
    -You can get T6 "fish nodes" on T5 zones, it makes no sense, why doesn't fish follow the tier of the zone model? Consistency is throwed out of the window completely.

    From all these points, the P2W aspect hits hard, you can't powerlevel gathering by setting up buy orders, I can't link right now but I remember a dev saying you can get fame for eating fish just like you can study food to level cooking, but cooking is not a GATHERING PROFESSION, so this really shouldn't apply.

    2. Tab System
    FINALLY something to help guilds out, I find it amazing the way it's set up and even allowing it to be configured as a chest and it has logs where you can export and play with it on a spreadsheet as you wish. Really well done on this aspect.
    It's nice we can finally have proper donation at towers instead of 4m per Morgana Crate (sorry everyone who didn't buy it at release for 50k each when it ACTUALLY DROPPED). Unfortunately permission system sucks, which I'll cover below.

    3. Roaming Mobs / Luxury Goods / Duo HGs
    Great addition to open world, I feel like solo / duo play will have a big spike in activity, also roaming mobs aggro range requires you to basically walk on top of it to aggro, but it will definitely help ganking on maps like highlands / mountains where if the target had a direwolf it was close to impossible to kill.
    Luxury goods are just icing on the cake, they don't break the game but I hope it makes people move between red zones more often, it's a quite good way to make money.

    4. New Custom Permissions
    Seemed like it was finally the day where we could organize guilds our way instead of being forced to deal with home plots being dropped by right hands (previously warmasters / master of coins). Yet it's fucked, yea it really is, here's why:

    - It literally breaks the whole linear hierarchy of roles, so any chests you had set something as "Guardsman+" now only applies to guardsman, which requires you to literally add every higher role as an invidual on every chest (a literall days worth of "CONTENT" for me as GM, YAY).
    - There is NO HIERARCHY, roles are listed alphabetically which is cancer, what the hell SBI. It's also SO MUCH work to get someone proper roles, before you could just promote / demote quickly, now you gotta go on the list with no search function, no way to sort based on guild rank (yay no hierarchy) and after finally scrolling through 300 people, give proper roles.
    - A feature shouldn't kill an existing useful feature, with no hierarchy of any kind there's no quick promote / demote, if you're not feeling creative, learn how discord roles behave and just copy it please.
    - On top of all that, assuming this will fall on deaf years and every person in charge of logistics is about to be royally fucked by a feature which not only doesn't help but breaks the existing system, we can't even COPY ROLES or TEMPLATE ROLES, this means chests have to be set ONE BY ONE, is it that hard to set up a system for this?

    Overall, on a game that is literally based on guilds and guild drama, you'd think guild QoL features would be a priority, but it took 3 betas, alphas and 3 release patches to get it and it feels half assed.

    5. Balance Changes
    Axes see more and more play all day and it still gets another buff, it's almost at the point people will play double axe because other bruiser roles will fall behind at this rate.
    Staff of Balance has to be the biggest prank ever created in a game, it has balance in the game but it's literally the opposite. Icicle + Demonic combo required a lot of synergy to pull off and could murder teams on that 5 seconds window the enemy got no heals, so you guys create a weapon that has:
    - Slow comparable to Icicle
    - Healing Reduction compared to Field of Death
    - Instant
    - Can't be purged (something that only applied to potions before)
    - Mobile, and not just walking, Cartwheel spam makes you close to impossible to catch
    - Resistance buffs from E compared to resistance potion, cartwheel also adds more resistance to it
    - HUGE AoE area on top of it all
    - Lasts for 30 SECONDS

    Not playing SOB is already playing at a disadvantage, and worse of all it's a relic weapon. Ask anyone running HGs and GVGs right now if they like being forced to play SOB if they want to get anywhere close to the top teams at the moment. Ask anyone not playing SOB if they feel they are at an advantage.

    The biggest factor on this is SOB has the only buff in the game that can't be purged, if it could, then even with previous numbers it would be in check.

    Battlemounts were insanely broken before, mainly the Fire Lizard, I roamed mercia with one + a T8 horse and I could go wiping groups diving territories back to back, bait dungeon groups outside, wipe groups at portals over and over, so making them a support role makes a lot of sense, especially not allowing a lot to be gained from bringing multiple, which allows smaller guilds to catch up even if a bit.

    Even though it feels like they will be in the right place, bringing one to open world where you don't have territories to fall back and could easily be baited into bigger numbers and get overwhelmed, since the first nerf I don't feel the need to bring one or multiple mounts out at all, it's an advantage but it's a 200m+ loss.

    Mounts are slower, not CC immune and on top of that there's the ballista, which isn't a big deal but it's another factor to consider anytime you bring a BM outside.

    The offensive part needed a nerf, but by nerfing both offensive and defensive aspects, battlemounts are just scare factor and flexing.

    6. Mage Changes
    I feel like the rogue mages are something cool, a lot of people got upset when they were not introduced right away with seasons as it was promised, so this must count as a good thing, HOWEVER, mages having any effect on GVGs, even more with artificial bonuses is dumb. I don't know what is the idea of "wow 5 man can lock down a continent", any guild without a decent open world presence knows owning territories means nothing when they get raided on the clock, gatherers get ganked, dungeons are swarmed and locked down. So especially with the change so energy generation isn't passive and almost guaranteed, giving an incentive like this makes no sense. On top of it all, it's not fun, people zerg GVGs every now and then to get a gank on enemy team or lock them from entering, but being forced to zerg EVERY GVG to make sure your team is on an even playfield sounds really close to a chore.

    ----

    Overall it seems like a positive patch, I'm glad open world was buffed instead of nerfing HCE, so at least something is on the right patch.

    There's still time to polish the patch or line up a hotfix for the known issues, so please, if it takes an hour or two of my day to make sure we won't be stuck on a half functioning patch until the next major one, just pm me on Discord.
    The Fleet's Guild Master
    Roads of Avalon Guild

    discord.gg/8WqzHdm
  • Hey!

    This is some amazing feedback right here!

    As of the Tomes of Insight. I actually think that is a solid idea you have there! You do not remove the grind, but using tomes will make this grind way more bearable and way less tedious! Great plan! This will also removed the "I will pay and gain fame" discussions and doubts.

    ~ Kutweer
  • Might have missed something, but in general i agree 100%

    As for tomes giving lp instead, then the problem afaik is that lp covers all trees while tomes are only meant to boost combat fame - and thats why it ended like it did.

    Agree on qol. It makes life harder, and seems to make things worse but i hope im wrong.

    Good post

    Edit: dont wish to sound ungratefull, but they devs should really have bounced the qol functionlities with the guildleaders so we could get something that actually supported our daily administration

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Sinatra.SUN ().

  • Roadmap Update: Joseph, Kay & Beyond

    Vortech's post on guild QOL for reference for anyone curious - we've been pounding a dead guild qole horse since 2014 guys, its really low on the priority list for some reason

    i suspect its due to them having to re-do a lot of code that will potentially fuck up everything so they are scared to touch it

    a lot of things finally made it in after 4 years now, but that said - devs can't play the game like you guys do (upper guild management / logistics), but its so important to get that right to prevent burn-out

    i really want to give props to specifically the guild qol stuff, but every time i look back and realize that it had been on the agenda for 3+years and then i just get sad and confused why expected features of any guild focussed mmo aren't in the game
  • Just an idea : Building on to what Vocadin and Sinatra.Sun have said between -
    Vocadin:"Tome of Insight would be great if it gave LP, it would just fit in perfectly with current system, instead it gives raw fame."
    Sinatra: "As for tomes giving lp instead, then the problem afaik is that lp covers all trees while tomes are only meant to boost combat fame"

    Couldn't they just have a separate area on the destiny board for Tome of Insight LP that players could only use on combat specialty skills? (see below for example)
    Images
    • LP.png

      296.54 kB, 723×666, viewed 334 times
  • Hi Im the logistics nerd Voc might be referring to sorting through Guild roles management.

    Im posting my prelim findings here in this post.

    Rights Management Feedback


    It is not yet final and because I have since deleted every role and started from scratch instead of using the predefined roles provided by SBI I no longer have a baseline standard for how the rights system will affect a guilds current role and permissions system when the patch arrives. At least not again until the staging server resyncs with live. (would really be helpful for the staging to live sync occur nightly this week or at least 2 or 3 more resyncs)

    After reaching out to some players in this game with coding experience the conclusion is there may be a 1 line error with regards to the Rights security from own, own/assign, own/assign/edit. With own/assign not functioning beyond being able to own but not assign.


    Additionally the UI for changing which roles can edit which roles, where top row affects left row seems to be inverted so top row is affected by left row, IDK its really a pita to play with it but ive noticed some weird inconsistencies.

    Logistics nerds please send help im slowly losing my mind.
  • Hey @Vocandin

    Thanks for your detailed feedback!
    I wanna take a moment to talk about the UI issues you listed, especially about rights management:

    Concerning breaking the hierarchy: other than we did on staging, when Lancelot goes live, we will transfer the whole old access rights settings to the new one. That means, if you have entered Guardsman+ somewhere, it will put Guardsman and all other ranks that were higher in the old system into the same slot. So the structure you set up in the past will be kept 100%. If you don't want to interfere with any of the new system, you can do that and leave it as it was and it should work. I'll admit that this should have been communicated by me or someone else earlier. There's a "guide" coming for the whole topic of rights management and access rights soonish.

    About keeping the hierarchy with promote and demote: not as easy to achieve that while allowing free creation of custom roles with different rights. We thought about different possibilities but weren't happy with any of them as it would have hindered the customization. How to promote someone, who doesn't only have one single role/rank? Since you brought it up, discord also can't do that as far as i know. You will have to manually assign new roles in a system where you can have an endless number of roles at the same time. If someone has a proposal of how to achieve that with only promote and demote buttons, please leave me a message! What i think we should add is a right click menu inside the Guild UI to easily add roles if you have the right for it.

    Player search bar in rights management - yes, we will add that!

    Copy/Export access rights settings - yes, we will add that!

    I hope this helps/clarifies a bit. Feel free to leave further comments. I'm checking the forum regularly.

    - Lino
  • H4n1baL wrote:

    About keeping the hierarchy with promote and demote: not as easy to achieve that while allowing free creation of custom roles with different rights. We thought about different possibilities but weren't happy with any of them as it would have hindered the customization. How to promote someone, who doesn't only have one single role/rank? Since you brought it up, discord also can't do that as far as i know. You will have to manually assign new roles in a system where you can have an endless number of roles at the same time. If someone has a proposal of how to achieve that with only promote and demote buttons, please leave me a message! What i think we should add is a right click menu inside the Guild UI to easily add roles if you have the right for it.
    what about when creating/updating roles allowing
    to precify the previous and next role. Thus if you clicked promote the next role would be given to someone, if you click demote the previous role would be given. If no role is specified then you can't promote or demote, You have to select manually.

    Another way to make it work would be to add "strength" numbers to a role, it would allow you to order the roles. Both for promoting and for ordering. Two roles can't have the same number. a role doesn't need to have a number and thus wouldn't be reachable by promoting/demoting and wouldn't be afftected by those actions. It would allow to use the numbers only for main roles, if you want to.

    Promote/demote buttons should be linked to role and not to caracter. two arrows next to the x/v in the right management tab would work, or selecting the role before promoting in the member list.

    Of course, it probably can't be implemented before update, but that would be a nice qol improvement.

    Edit: Also you could assign a main role to someone, either manually or considering the role with the higher number. A caracter promote/demote button would affect the main role.

    The post was edited 5 times, last by Pegasus ().