Has dagger science gone too far?

    • kreeshak schrieb:

      Rainphase schrieb:

      Fame Farming is not about pulling together 10-16 mobs and aoe burning them down.. Waiting for 15 seconds as the healer heals everyone and druid cowl drops for mana. The high Fame comes from dynamic fighting that is continuous and non stop 6-10 mob pulls. and to do that you need more dynamics than just aoe dps. For this fact alone I believe we are not comparing stuff on the same level
      that's not how it works though.
      there is no wait and no downtime. the bigger the aoe dps the lesser need for mana and druid cowl.

      10-16 pulls ARE non stop as your 6-10 pulls, but those 10-16 mobs die faster than your 6-10.

      Really think about it if a Blazing is doing 1000 dps on 10 mobs, it is clearing faster than a dagger doing 1000 dps on 1 mob. There is nothing to discuss here.
      Wait, Are we comparing a Single weapon solo fame farming or are we comparing group dynamics in fame farms? please make up your mind and clearly you have no clue how group dynamics work or even how to make Fame farming challenging and fun.

      Good luck on your blazing staff Fame Farms.
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    • letwolf schrieb:

      can do 300k ff per hour if your group consists of fire-meteor-tornado, arcane/curse, mace tank..and you dagger.

      indeed, theres nothing the dagger can help. he can poke one mob or just sit down, absolutely no matter: job is done by another members with aoes :D
      Actually those comp ff groups can do more than 300k per hour. But lemme know the next time you guys go out FF with that setup, I could use a couple more relic weapons for ZvZ fights. Everything in the team has its purpose and dagger has a good one. and please don't go jumping saying that it would only be for group protection cause if you do, you clearly need to start faming and learning group dynamics with other weapons than aoe dps.
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    • Rainphase schrieb:

      kreeshak schrieb:

      Rainphase schrieb:

      Fame Farming is not about pulling together 10-16 mobs and aoe burning them down.. Waiting for 15 seconds as the healer heals everyone and druid cowl drops for mana. The high Fame comes from dynamic fighting that is continuous and non stop 6-10 mob pulls. and to do that you need more dynamics than just aoe dps. For this fact alone I believe we are not comparing stuff on the same level
      that's not how it works though.there is no wait and no downtime. the bigger the aoe dps the lesser need for mana and druid cowl.

      10-16 pulls ARE non stop as your 6-10 pulls, but those 10-16 mobs die faster than your 6-10.

      Really think about it if a Blazing is doing 1000 dps on 10 mobs, it is clearing faster than a dagger doing 1000 dps on 1 mob. There is nothing to discuss here.
      Wait, Are we comparing a Single weapon solo fame farming or are we comparing group dynamics in fame farms? please make up your mind and clearly you have no clue how group dynamics work or even how to make Fame farming challenging and fun.
      Good luck on your blazing staff Fame Farms.

      We have always been talking about group fame farming.

      And to refresh everyone here is objecting your quote here:

      "Just because a weapon has 1-2 aoe attacks doesn't mean it does more damage or OP damage for FF groups."

      Do you still stand by the above statement?
    • kreeshak schrieb:

      Rainphase schrieb:

      kreeshak schrieb:

      Rainphase schrieb:

      Fame Farming is not about pulling together 10-16 mobs and aoe burning them down.. Waiting for 15 seconds as the healer heals everyone and druid cowl drops for mana. The high Fame comes from dynamic fighting that is continuous and non stop 6-10 mob pulls. and to do that you need more dynamics than just aoe dps. For this fact alone I believe we are not comparing stuff on the same level
      that's not how it works though.there is no wait and no downtime. the bigger the aoe dps the lesser need for mana and druid cowl.
      10-16 pulls ARE non stop as your 6-10 pulls, but those 10-16 mobs die faster than your 6-10.

      Really think about it if a Blazing is doing 1000 dps on 10 mobs, it is clearing faster than a dagger doing 1000 dps on 1 mob. There is nothing to discuss here.
      Wait, Are we comparing a Single weapon solo fame farming or are we comparing group dynamics in fame farms? please make up your mind and clearly you have no clue how group dynamics work or even how to make Fame farming challenging and fun.Good luck on your blazing staff Fame Farms.
      We have always been talking about group fame farming.

      And to refresh everyone here is objecting your quote here:

      "Just because a weapon has 1-2 aoe attacks doesn't mean it does more damage or OP damage for FF groups."

      Do you still stand by the above statement?
      I do stand behind the statement, but its relatively broad, I wasn't talking about the "perfect 500k-1m fame per hour comps"

      kreeshak schrieb:

      One more thing. I DO want to bring deathgivers into a fame farm group. So still asking you for what setup you are using, to which you haven't replied yet. I have nothing against daggers. I just wish someone is creative enough to suggest a viable build for them.
      I must have missed this, Usually for deathgivers I will bring a few different things depending on the group comp however ill list my choices and im sure you can figure out which will apply pending group equipment.

      Helm

      Stalker Hood, 3rd Ability,
      Scholar Cowl, Energy Shield Ability for mana recovery, especially if you and taking on the roll of pulling extra aggro into the group.

      Armor

      Hellion Jack is my personal Favorite due to multiple uses. Gain life when low to help not tax the healer, Pull aggro off of healer when tank is having a hard time on larger pulls, Heal yourself during pulling if you are pulling extra mobs into group.
      Stalker Jacket: Aoe ability, good alternative if your tank is just an insane and can aggro everything or if you are running a more stun focused group"

      Boots

      Druid cloth, Love it for slowing mobs especially for pulling aggro allowing aoe dps damage, group stuns, or even tank to use heavy slam to aggro everything.
      Royal Leather Boots: just for levelling arti spec and to get away
      Royal Cloth: If you just really need that friggen mage dead in a hurry cause your group pulled too much aggro.


      Deathgivers weapon: Q Assassins Spirit W The three blades (sorry the name have eluded me) Special (attack speed bonus)
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    • This conversation is silly. In a proper FF group with AE spam you could replace the dagger user and his bloodletter with anyone (or no one) and do just as well. He mentioned that he could auto a mage down with triple assassin stacks fast but a firestaff can stack their Q dot quickly and do comparable damage and provide the AE on top of it.

      I really don't think dagger needs more damage. It needs something to benefit a group.
    • Rainphase schrieb:

      Helm

      Stalker Hood, 3rd Ability,
      Scholar Cowl, Energy Shield Ability for mana recovery, especially if you and taking on the roll of pulling extra aggro into the group.

      Armor

      Hellion Jack is my personal Favorite due to multiple uses. Gain life when low to help not tax the healer, Pull aggro off of healer when tank is having a hard time on larger pulls, Heal yourself during pulling if you are pulling extra mobs into group.
      Stalker Jacket: Aoe ability, good alternative if your tank is just an insane and can aggro everything or if you are running a more stun focused group"

      Boots

      Druid cloth, Love it for slowing mobs especially for pulling aggro allowing aoe dps damage, group stuns, or even tank to use heavy slam to aggro everything.
      Royal Leather Boots: just for levelling arti spec and to get away
      Royal Cloth: If you just really need that friggen mage dead in a hurry cause your group pulled too much aggro.


      Deathgivers weapon: Q Assassins Spirit W The three blades (sorry the name have eluded me) Special (attack speed bonus)
      hehe, :D

      so u farming sspecialization to make full PVE build ?
      for what ?
    • skillazor schrieb:

      Rainphase schrieb:

      Helm

      Stalker Hood, 3rd Ability,
      Scholar Cowl, Energy Shield Ability for mana recovery, especially if you and taking on the roll of pulling extra aggro into the group.

      Armor

      Hellion Jack is my personal Favorite due to multiple uses. Gain life when low to help not tax the healer, Pull aggro off of healer when tank is having a hard time on larger pulls, Heal yourself during pulling if you are pulling extra mobs into group.
      Stalker Jacket: Aoe ability, good alternative if your tank is just an insane and can aggro everything or if you are running a more stun focused group"

      Boots

      Druid cloth, Love it for slowing mobs especially for pulling aggro allowing aoe dps damage, group stuns, or even tank to use heavy slam to aggro everything.
      Royal Leather Boots: just for levelling arti spec and to get away
      Royal Cloth: If you just really need that friggen mage dead in a hurry cause your group pulled too much aggro.


      Deathgivers weapon: Q Assassins Spirit W The three blades (sorry the name have eluded me) Special (attack speed bonus)
      hehe, :D
      so u farming sspecialization to make full PVE build ?
      for what ?
      Who says Its a full pve build ^^ People who dismiss weapons in PVP especially GvG need to look at alternative comps more and start worrying about 5 man theory crafting instead of 1. I'm not releasing my GvG build for deathgivers until i make a video of it ^^
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    • agonyclutch schrieb:

      Fred_the_Barbarian schrieb:

      @Retroman explain yourself

      Half of me wants to believe that you just made daggers great again, and half of me is utterly horrified at the idea of such a weapon.
      stop all your bitching ffs not op just cleanse the fucking e while stunned you shitters negate all the dmg
      Soooo... if you don't have cleanse or you used it in the last 20 seconds, fuck you die instantly?
    • Fred_the_Barbarian schrieb:

      agonyclutch schrieb:

      Fred_the_Barbarian schrieb:

      @Retroman explain yourself

      Half of me wants to believe that you just made daggers great again, and half of me is utterly horrified at the idea of such a weapon.
      stop all your bitching ffs not op just cleanse the fucking e while stunned you shitters negate all the dmg
      Soooo... if you don't have cleanse or you used it in the last 20 seconds, fuck you die instantly?
      You heard the man!!!!, PVE, PVP, ZVZ and anything else you need to do in albion... Don't forget your cleanse hood!!!
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    • kreeshak schrieb:

      @Rainphase passives?

      playstyle/rotation?
      Attack Speed and or Damage if you running cloth. Stack Q and use it until last second then pull second stack (saves energy) nail 3rd stack

      Use stalker hood if low health mobs to buff entire group and double execute low mobs with E or burn a mage.

      My playstyle usually is Pulling mobs to keep the group constantly going, Executing , damaging dangerous target or problematic mobs, pulling aggro from healer. More or less a crux point on keeping the group going providing support and dps while aggroing stuff.

      I read the group and push everyone right to their limit.
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    • Rain, it's great you're having fun grouping with Daggers. You're getting fame 4x slower, but if you and your group are having fun, who's to say you're doing it wrong.

      The issue is I was also a Mace Tank. Since, y'know, daggers aren't worth a salty sailor buttfuck in ZvZ... I needed to actually do something useful there. My choices became that I could level as a Mace Tank and Air Compress my way to 4x more fame per hour... or spend 20-30 minutes convincing Alliance members to let me shit all over their fame farm with a fucking useless weapon. And sure, maybe someday, we'll all have a laugh and do Warbow/Dual Dagger fame farming. Folks are still leveling useful weapons in ZvZ and GvG in the meantime, however.

      For me, the only time it's worth it to level daggers is solo... and I'm not a solo player. After the first 50-100 hours grinding boars (sorry rhinos), I'm ready to take a shit on this game. So Daggers just simply become a no-go for me because, quite frankly, Albion's weapon balance on a group level is abysmal.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 3 mal editiert, zuletzt von RockLobster ()

    • Rainphase schrieb:

      RockLobster schrieb:

      It's just hard to balance daggers/Single Target DPS when any monkey with a Clarent can hit 3-10 people for half their life every E. If Daggers can't 1 shot someone, they're always going to be pretty much useless by comparison... and if they can 1 shot someone, it's crappy design and bad gameplay.

      And that doesn't even factor in how much a long, boring, lonely road it is to fame farm up daggers, since no Fame Farm group wants your pitiful DPS when you can mass pull a bunch of groups and AoE them down.

      Overall, weapon balance in this game is complete shit and I don't think there's anything they can do to fix it other than a complete widescale AoE nerf which will just piss off everyone who's fame farmed up the right weapons.
      If you seriously Think that Fame farming in groups with a dagger is bad... you really need to rethink how you Fame Farm. Bloodletter does Insane auto attack damage and multiple execute damage if you aim correctly. The new relic daggers completely decimate dps wise. Every single time I join a FF group with my setups using daggers the comment always comes out. Man this is moving along a lot faster now. I can fame farm in groups 250-300k or more per hour depending on rest of the group with my daggers.. I can also solo fame farm Rhinos with a skinner garb and get at a minimum 250k per hour.
      You are talking about leveling artifact daggers, okay great.

      Lets talk numbers for artifact gear progression.

      It takes ~89M mob fame to fully max an artifact weapon w/o LP
      It takes ~26.5M mob fame if you use LP at every level at the fame point to use LP to gain the level.
      It takes 5979 LP to be able to do that which w sub would require 299 days of accumulation.

      Have fun.

      Meanwhile if your goal is to use any of the other dagger lines which will be far more economical in 5v5 play you won't have any spec in them and hit like a wet noodle, also have fun.

      Sure relic weapons are crazy powerful, Nehoy is 100spec relic swords and there is a 100 spec relic axe on server, good luck to them if those weapons ever get a "balance adjustment"

      Yes if your goal is to level daggers to T8 and ignore specs then by all means bring a relic dagger to FF it has AOE and get you more invites to farms.


      But hyper power farms can hit 400-500K/hr and that's only getting done by very specific setups most of which will have wide appeal for their utility in multiple pvp types of play.


      As to the rest of this thread, the fact that people are looking for the most efficient ways to FF and level gear are ignoring the underlying problems,

      1. The length of time as a function of the required mob fame required to reach certain thresholds of power needed to be competitive

      2. The lack of alternative methods of acquiring that progression that don't involve doing 100s of hours of mindnumbing boring PVE, ie can't progress you character through PvP