Puller in Open World Dungeon (Camlann/NR/BB/CV)

  • Puller in Open World Dungeon (Camlann/NR/BB/CV)

    A puller will wear t4-t5 gears, dive into a safe place through mobs then he will wait 60 seconds to log off.
    After that, he logs in with bubble, lure all the mobs to a farming group, the trick is that if any member of farming group accidentally aggro by using their AoE. The group will be on their knees.
    The puller will execute them.

    -> Low risk, high reward (t4 gears vs t6-7). High chance of success since the farming group cannot dive in to kill the puller (not everyone has an assassin jacket and escape skills).

    Suggestion: Just change the log-in mechanic, from having an ability to aggro the mobs to none ( the same mechanic when a player is down by mobs and gets up without aggro anything in a period of time).


  • Reply from devs/mods : "It's not an exploit and it doesn't mess with the game or the gamers".

    In my opinion, the devs don't really play the game at all. Or if they do, they haven't farmed fame in high-end level dungeon.

    These pullers only wear flat t4, they dive in the mobs then log out. There's no cost or risk to them but only the group does the fame farm. They just hide behind bunch of elite mobs, the fame farm group cannot dive in to kill these pullers, even if we can, that's really a high risk for the "reward" (flat t4). These guys die and go back right away, cause they can afford to do it thousands times.

    @Korn @Bercilak : It will be a quick fix, no work for you guys at all. Please turn off the aggro mechanic for log-in, they will still have the bubble, but they cannot aggro the mobs (just like effects from downed players).
  • So let's play the 'Devil's Advocate'

    Let's discuss potential solutions first:
    1. Give them a shield + they are not able to pull mobs while having this shield;
    2. Give them not a shield at all;
    3. Give them no shield (player can attack) but mobs will not agro while in this (ghost mode) - this is the same when you get knocked down and stand back up again.

    Let's reverse engineer this:
    1. This means they can rush all the way to the bosses while not having to kill anything else than the boss room! Players can login and logout and do bosses only. This problem is the same we had in the beta phase.
    2, No shield in Black Zones seems unreasonable and a bit harsh;
    3. This mechanic could potentially work, but then you have the same problem as at 1.

    What I wanna say with this every change has consequences we need to think 1.2.3 steps forwards. You say it's an 'Easy' fix, but it actually isn't. So, if we wanna help the developers coming up with some good solutions help them think steps ahead.

    EDIT: The puller mechanic must stay for sure!
  • Dont know how it’s now, but before Arch had like 5 autists in CV and it was impossible to do the world boss, and i think it’s a game breaker, if you kill one, they login to another and it can go on for few hours.

    Another great idea my guild-mates gave is, make that bubble dissapear if you move 5m away from your loggin place, so it can’t be abused. @Elsa @Korn @everyone...
  • @Kutweer
    Hi, thanks for the reply. I think with current state, according to your post


    Kutweer wrote:

    1. This means they can rush all the way to the bosses while not having to kill anything else than the boss room! Players can login and logout and do bosses only. This problem is the same we had in the beta phase.
    they can still go the boss without killing anything, just have to be downed a few times.
    And in my opinion, if you changed into:


    Kutweer wrote:

    1. Give them a shield + they are not able to pull mobs while having this shield;


    Now, they can log off and log in to go the boss area.
    But I think it's no different with the current state. Because, in order to do the boss (in CV or BB). The group has to kill the mobs surrounding the boss, no matter what.
    -> But to kill the mobs, you need rooms for leash (double leash), so even if you can go to the boss area, they have to go out again to kill the mobs to make ways to the boss. I think everyone do the bosses frequently will know this.

    Conclusion: So with the change, the difference is that changed from being downed by mobs a several times to no downed time.
  • In my opinion, the best solution to puller exploit is to implement the following system:

    "Players logging into PvP zones will receive a Shield Buff/Debuff for 'x' seconds. This Shield Buff/Debuff is invincible, the player cannot be damaged or CC'd by any means and will pull aggro on all aggressive mobs.

    If player is hit by a mob while the Shield Buff/Debuff is active, they will receive a Debuff or a Stack on the Shield Buff/Debuff which makes the Shield disappear if travelled a certain range away from where the Debuff/Stack was applied OR reduces the Shield active time significantly."

    This system or something similar may be some work for the Devs, but in my opinion, a system to combat the puller exploit is entirely necessary, as single pullers have been known to wipe entire 60+ man Zergs, which is ridiculous.

    Something must be done.
  • Morkiz wrote:

    Dont know how it’s now, but before Arch had like 5 autists in CV and it was impossible to do the world boss, and i think it’s a game breaker, if you kill one, they login to another and it can go on for few hours.

    Another great idea my guild-mates gave is, make that bubble dissapear if you move 5m away from your loggin place, so it can’t be abused. @Elsa @Korn @everyone...
    Nice suggestion
  • @Kovett i dont think such complex system is requiered. Just copy paste code from downed (or how to call them..) player system and add 5m radius for bubble, again copy paste code from changing zones and reduce the radius, it’s like 2min job for devs.

    I remember we had really great ZvZ fights in CV before autists started coming there...
  • Is this mechanic lame and highly susceptible to abuse? Yes.

    Are there things you could have done differently to prevent what happened? Yes.

    Do you need a group of 15 people to farm camlann? No.

    It sucks what happened in the video and I don't like it either, but as long as your group is cohesive and on the same page you can easily avoid aggroing the mobs pulled into you and the more numbers you have the harder it becomes. Having said that, I would definitely agree that a shorter leashing should be implemented for all of the higher end open world dungeons as their leash range is pretty ridiculous.

    Also - the guy that pulled mobs onto you by logging out was from GREED, not ARCH.
  • Problem is, if you DC or logout in a PvP zone, you're screwed if you log back in and there are reds around you. You can only move 5 metres before they start attacking you.

    EDIT: Also this has nothing to do with the number of players you need to farm Camlann or any fame farming zone. This is related to PvP, questioning how many players you need to farm any mob zone is redundant and unrelated to the issue at hand.

    In addition, there often are more than 10 players farming at World Boss dungeons, the more numbers you have, the higher the chance you are safer. Nor have I mentioned that contesting a World Boss often requires more than 10 players, even though the boss is for 10 players, you need friendlies to guard the 10 or so killing the Boss, and/or need number to fight contesting Zergs.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Kovett ().

  • 5m radius is more like example, devs can make it more reasonable. And still most ppl log out in safe zones, don’t see a problem there, only if you have DC.

    Btw, saw few situations when all tanks do relog, so they get bubble and can safely get inside enemy team. It seems like game breaker aswell..
  • Morkiz wrote:

    5m radius is more like example, devs can make it more reasonable. And still most ppl log out in safe zones, don’t see a problem there, only if you have DC.

    Btw, saw few situations when all tanks do relog, so they get bubble and can safely get inside enemy team. It seems like game breaker aswell..
    instead of praying for a Divine intervention in a virtual world, players needs to adapt,

    We had this problem in a dungeon before, a healer with ambush pulled mobs and killed one of our team, then we adapted, he failed the next 3 times, and we killed him, we never saw him again
  • Vagabond wrote:

    Morkiz wrote:

    5m radius is more like example, devs can make it more reasonable. And still most ppl log out in safe zones, don’t see a problem there, only if you have DC.

    Btw, saw few situations when all tanks do relog, so they get bubble and can safely get inside enemy team. It seems like game breaker aswell..
    instead of praying for a Divine intervention in a virtual world, players needs to adapt,
    We had this problem in a dungeon before, a healer with ambush pulled mobs and killed one of our team, then we adapted, he failed the next 3 times, and we killed him, we never saw him again
    May i highlight to you the situation presented to us here is a ZVZ scenario, in a normal situation we dont usually have any issue with pullers. but it's a fact that when a puller comes in in a mass zvz situation like that, it's spoils the game. that's a matter of fact. sucky.

    and what morkiz highlighted here is also very deadly, though it's a normal ff situation. but in this particular zone, pullers are getting spinning blades which is very very potent in killing players and we cant do anything to him. pathetic. mechanism if you would ask me.

    this two scenarios are not as easy to handle as other dungeons/situations.

    Solution presented like having bubble and no aggro is good enough to be honest, like what others said, so what if they can log in log out and get into boss areas? they can still do it now. no argument.
  • tarnator wrote:

    Morkiz wrote:

    Dont know how it’s now, but before Arch had like 5 autists in CV and it was impossible to do the world boss, and i think it’s a game breaker, if you kill one, they login to another and it can go on for few hours.

    Another great idea my guild-mates gave is, make that bubble dissapear if you move 5m away from your loggin place, so it can’t be abused. @Elsa @Korn @everyone...
    Nice suggestion
    or just create a new bubble system for the blackzones logging in:

    Your bubble will remain (same duration as before), and it will be removed instantly if you move or cast any skill

    This way:
    • people who dc inside a dungeon can teleport out
    • people who dc outside can mount up


    so they can't exploit this system to rush inside enemy or lure mobs to them
  • Kovett wrote:

    Also this has nothing to do with the number of players you need to farm Camlann or any fame farming zone. This is related to PvP, questioning how many players you need to farm any mob zone is redundant and unrelated to the issue at hand.
    Everything in this game is related to PvP as this is an open world full loot PvP game and that includes PvE fame farms. Think of it like PvEvP.

    As to the number of players you farm with I suppose that is entirely up to your party, but more likely than not when you blob farm - you paint yourself as a target and people want to come in and attack you. Maybe they sense weakness when they see more people than necessary fighting high end dungeons? You're certainly less likely to get trapped by "pullers" when you have a smaller group and can all be coordinated. Also I don't get the point of it, everyone gets shit fame. You're much better off getting into smaller groups and learning your group's limits.



    Kovett wrote:

    In addition, there often are more than 10 players farming at World Boss dungeons, the more numbers you have, the higher the chance you are safer. Nor have I mentioned that contesting a World Boss often requires more than 10 players, even though the boss is for 10 players, you need friendlies to guard the 10 or so killing the Boss, and/or need number to fight contesting Zergs.
    I don't know why people think numbers make you safer. In open world ZvZ sure, but in fame farm groups it doesn't matter as much as you think it does. There are so many choke-points and high ground advantages in open world dungeons that can allow you to fight outnumbered. But really - and this is key because some people are just too scared or prideful of dying to understand this - if you get ran up on while your group is on mobs you're most likely just gonna die. It's the reality of the situation and it's by design.

    Also please waste all that time with 20v20 finga-poppin each otha's assholes over world bosses until both sides give up because that's when me and my crew come in and do them.
  • Vagabond wrote:

    or just create a new bubble system for the blackzones logging in:

    Your bubble will remain (same duration as before), and it will be removed instantly if you move or cast any skill

    This way:


    people who dc inside a dungeon can teleport out

    people who dc outside can mount up


    so they can't exploit this system to rush inside enemy or lure mobs to them
    I like the idea, but I think the purpose of the bubble was to give you the extra protection of not having any information on the zone you log into or the routes that are safe or not. With your idea, you could log in - move and lose your bubble and instantly walk into something you're not prepared for and possibly without gallop.