If Daggers are for single target then...

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    • Stravanov schrieb:

      So all the single target weapons in the game should be winning 1v1?

      Do you realize how many single target weapons there are?
      Why would anyone use weapons that are bad at damaging multiple foes if they *don't* win in 1v1?

      That's an issue I have with Albion weapon balance - they seem to value single target damage so highly when, in reality, it's pretty useless. First, you are not desired for PvE content at all, which limits greatly how you can fame these weapons up - hope you like soloing Tier VI skinning mobs for hundreds of hours with a Skinner jacket on because that's about the only way to get good fame on daggers since no serious fame farm group will take you. You also aren't wanted in Competitive 5v5 PvP because who cares if you can damage someone for 1000 when any idiot can pick up a Clarent and hit 3 for 700. And in my last guild, if you showed up to a ZvZ with Daggers, they'd actually kick you out because you're goddam useless (and I'm not even exaggerating or having an issue with this policy... since you kinda are).

      If the changes in Kay actually make teams consider Dagger players in Competative PvP, I'll come back full core to this game. I'm not an amazingly skilled streamer who has the clout to get 4 other players to build a comp around them and the skill to carry while they're adjusting to it. Before I quit, I did spend days bringing guildies into Arenas and dominating killing blows with Dual-Daggers/Bloodletter, trying to convince them Daggers are viable in 5v5 - didn't even make a dent. "Ya, in arena." "lol, they'd just coordinate and focus you down in GvG" "Switch to Clarent/Glaive dude. So much better" It demoralized me out of the game.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 2 mal editiert, zuletzt von RockLobster ()

    • RockLobster schrieb:

      Stravanov schrieb:

      So all the single target weapons in the game should be winning 1v1?

      Do you realize how many single target weapons there are?
      Why would anyone use weapons that are bad at damaging multiple foes if they *don't* win in 1v1?
      That's an issue I have with Albion weapon balance - they seem to value single target damage so highly when, in reality, it's pretty useless. First, you are not desired for PvE content at all, which limits greatly how you can fame these weapons up - hope you like soloing Tier VI skinning mobs for hundreds of hours with a Skinner jacket on because that's about the only way to get good fame on daggers since no serious fame farm group will take you. You also aren't wanted in Competitive 5v5 PvP because who cares if you can damage someone for 1000 when any idiot can pick up a Clarent and hit 3 for 700. And in my last guild, if you showed up to a ZvZ with Daggers, they'd actually kick you out because you're goddam useless (and I'm not even exaggerating or having an issue with this policy... since you kinda are).

      If the changes in Kay actually make teams consider Dagger players in Competative PvP, I'll come back full core to this game. I'm not an amazingly skilled streamer who has the clout to get 4 other players to build a comp around them and the skill to carry while they're adjusting to it. Before I quit, I did spend days bringing guildies into Arenas and dominating killing blows with Dual-Daggers/Bloodletter, trying to convince them Daggers are viable in 5v5 - didn't even make a dent. "Ya, in arena." "lol, they'd just coordinate and focus you down in GvG" "Switch to Clarent/Glaive dude. So much better" It demoralized me out of the game.
      This. I've got my daggers to T8, and will give 5v5s with them a chance, but I'm already looking into grinding up 1h fire or frost for if that doesn't work out. When I'd rather be grinding up specializations on my daggers.
    • Trogdor schrieb:

      Then they should be winning in 1v1 however they are not. Only mentioning as a means to improve game, still an amazing gaming experience regardless.

      Okay, I've seen this kind of argument a few times lately and I would like to address both the misconception that leads to this stance and the stance itself.

      When talking about a weapon being for 'single-target', 'multi-target', 'aoe', etc. We are saying that they are specifically useful for dealing damage against that number of targets. This is in contrast with statements like 1v1, GvG, ZvZ which refer to them number of players in an engagement. As intuitive as it may seem that single-target is for 1v1, multi-target is for GvG, and AoE is for ZvZ; this is simply not correct. A weapon can be excellent at applying AoE dps and be atrocious for ZvZ use just as a weapon can be the premier single-target weapon and not be the optimal choice for duelists (1v1).

      If we apply the above to daggers we quickly realize that the majority of the weapon class is sub-par for dueling, but amazing for applying sustained or burst damage (depending on variant). This damage profile really begins to shine in small-scale battles (smaller than 10v10, but large enough that both sides have a healer) as it allows you to either force sustained healing on a target or burst down targets that would otherwise not be low enough to be at risk. A rare case is the very powerful new relic dagger. It is capable of very-high sustained DPS on a single-target and can deliver a burst during it's rotation with very little warning that the incoming damage is about to spike.

      Daggers are perfectly fine where they are after the recent changes and should be left alone to stabilize as players are still learning how to use the new rotation that a shortened Sunder cooldown brings.
    • I think its interesting to read this from someone who has previously been defending the tree for a while. He had a new and glorious noobie experience and now that he's finally made it to carleon and reached the end game he's starting to realize that i was right all along.

      Let me catch you up...

      Daggers are not good at 1v1. Idk where you got this assumption. They can perform decently but there are far greater options. Take curse for example, all curse has to do in order to win is get some DOTS on you then either run or ice block. Quite simply the easiest win condition to achieve. No cast times, no skill shots, easy to fire at a distance. You can even use walls to your advantage.

      - The only "intention" for daggers is for them to be a mobility weapon. Which doesn't make sense because there's literally only one skill (dash) and perhaps shadow edge that offer a very limited amount of mobility.

      How can this be the primary intention for daggers @Retroman if quarterstaff, hammers, and spears also have comparable mobility skills?

      - Remember when i said curse can deal the majority of its damage through instant cast spells? Riddle me this- then why does a melee weapon like dual daggers have a 1 second cast time on its primary damage skill, along with pre-req that can be purged?

      Sorry to burst your bubble man but you chose the wrong weapon and you had everyone here to warn you.
    • hammers and quarterstaff have much less damage than daggers. they have more cc and comparable mobility. so things balanced by now.
      spears have better damage but no mobility but cc (pike, glaive, haron) or some mobility (bad, not comparable to daggers) - 1 h spear

      so where the mobility of spear? in fact that you said is not true.
      you guys surely want new W-skill for daggers, with 5 second CD, which will eliminate all enemies in entire screen doing 9000+ instant dmg to them.

      if you constantly pushing devs to make your beloved weapon to do all-around, maybe I must start whining that my fire staff is too underpowered. It is really underpowered in ganking! Have almost no mobility ! BUFF IT NOW!!!!111

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von letwolf ()

    • hammers/quaterstaffs have mobility, CC and an HP pool.
      Spears have burst damage, sustained damage and CC.
      Fire have a LOT of damage in both burst and sustain.
      Then what are daggers supposed to do? Bloodletter to farm/gank and claws to gank, and every other one is useless. Every fire staff can be used, even if they arnt all as good, and it goes the same for most trees.
      you can:
      Gank, GvG with swords.
      Gank, GvG and ZvZ with bows.
      Gank, GvG and ZvZ with staffs.
      Gank, GvG and ZvZ with hammers.
      GvG, ZvZ with fire.
      Can keep going for every tree, except fckng daggers that can ONLY be used to gank, and not even all of them.

      Im not a dagger player, but I can see how stupid they are. Look at 2H dagger, 1s cast to burst someone, and any CC/invulnerability/dash use the cooldown if used in time. Every dagger is trash except 2, and they are in a very niche thing.

      Im not asking for an OP spell, im asking for some balance on this. Just like Staff of Balance is overpowered atm, daggers are underpowered. Lot of ideas have been proposed to fix that weapon, so why not a single thing have been done?
    • Gaheris schrieb:

      Dash not costing any mana is a step in the right direction from SBI! Now we just gotta hope for a buff to sunder armor or a better q ability that doesn't increase your dmg taken by 12%
      It is a step in the right direction. I will give them that. I just honestly don't know where they take daggers from here.

      Keep buffing daggers until they can practically one shot people? Any more buffs to raw damage and we're there. That said, they almost *have* to be able to one shot people to compete with fucktarded weapons like Clarent Blades that any idiot can walk around with, hitting 3-10 people for 40% of their life.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von RockLobster ()

    • Trogdor schrieb:

      Im just saying the entire class is dedicated to 1v1, it should be op at 1v1. I'm obviously bias as I grinded Daggers.
      This is the same reason plate is the only armor with threat on it. We are almost wowlbion the merger will soon be complete... just kidding wow doesn't even restrict tanks to plate.

      There are things know and things unknown and in between are the doors of perception.- Audius Huxley