If Daggers are for single target then...

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    • skillazor schrieb:

      letwolf schrieb:

      if the daggers would be op in 1v1, what the fck reason to have many other weapons? everybody will go roaming with daggers, no diversity, fckin as hell
      what the fck reason to play single target weapon when u can play aoe dps and make even higher dmg ?
      This is a valid point.

      AoE DPS is balanced pretty weirdly against single target DPS.

      Its a seperate issue from the dagger issue, however.
      https://forum.albiononline.com/index.php/Thread/82954-Guide-What-order-to-level-items-in-to-get-the-most-specialization-for-your-time/
    • skillazor schrieb:

      letwolf schrieb:

      I see such huge pressure to devs from dagger users here... Like 90% of players use daggers rite now. Maybe its time to kick in and start leveling up daggers, in case devs surrender to you, crowd of dagger lovers, and make them OP one day...
      lul, go claws, mercenary jacket and mage cowl/hunter hood and ur already op in 1v1 with 4.1 eq.
      rite you are!
      so I further misunderstand the whining about daggers.
      they are normal, if not somewhat op, and surely not underpowered
    • Did I miss read the patch notes?

      I thought the patch notes effectively said they were removing the damage debuff and the invis and were instead making it so you auto attacked 30% faster per stack and each stack put a counter that when consumed would reduce your cooldowns by 8% per stack. So you could effectively use the skill 4 times in a row to reduce your other skill cooldowns by 25%?

      If not, that seems to be a great way to improve the dagger DPS overall and they can change slit throat to be more useful. If you want group utility they could also add secondary effects to things. I imagine a dagger user slitting someone's throat would scare those around him so why not make it pulse a fear and do damage to your target and others around you run in fear?
    • My impression of dagger since I have used it. So I dueled a t4 gs and I was t5 dagger with mage hood my our damage output and burst were about = he of course has mobility and cc with gs. Assassin spirit the timer is too short making it unmanageable past 50% (think not clipping wl dots) and the stacks dropping on invisibility mean that you pretty much don't use that 4th stack which doesn't make much sense. I can see how the dmg buff could make the alpha on duel daggers broken given to much time. Edit: nvm i see that it is basic dmg only.

      About the proposed changes as listed on this forum.
      I think it sounds great I have not done any real testing but the dmg buff doesn't seem to effect single hand daggers poison and the cd reduction means that the second rotation comes 25% faster that is pretty much already going to make daggers op as fuck unless people start purging; the 8% seems manageable. What is really great about it is that the speed buff change potentially frees the chest piece on single dagger which is great.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 3 mal editiert, zuletzt von Sun_Tzu ()

    • Sun_Tzu schrieb:

      My impression of dagger since I have used it. So I dueled a t4 gs and I was t5 dagger with mage hood my our damage output and burst were about = he of course has mobility and cc with gs. Assassin spirit the timer is too short making it unmanageable past 50% (think not clipping wl dots) and the stacks dropping on invisibility mean that you pretty much don't use that 4th stack which doesn't make much sense. I can see how the dmg buff could make the alpha on duel daggers broken given to much time. Edit: nvm i see that it is basic dmg only.

      About the proposed changes as listed on this forum.
      I think it sounds great I have not done any real testing but the dmg buff doesn't seem to effect single hand daggers poison and the cd reduction means that the second rotation comes 25% faster that is pretty much already going to make daggers op as fuck unless people start purging; the 8% seems manageable. What is really great about it is that the speed buff change potentially frees the chest piece on single dagger which is great.
      like for 3 stack you can get 24% cd reduction + 15% from omelet
      But you also get 12% incoming dmg.
      I think its not fair.
      The attack speed buff is usseles anyway,casue most of the daggers are skill based.Not to mention keep autoattacking someone who isnt somewhat CCed is realy hard due to ping and bad AA desing.Buffs from Assassin spirit are only for 7 sec,if devs take away the stacking mechanics on that they become OP as fuck.

      Just try compare Spears second Q and daggers second Q .... No wonder that spear are that strong when there is no draw back on theirs Q.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 2 mal editiert, zuletzt von Darrius ()

    • Darrius schrieb:

      like for 3 stack you can get 24% cd reduction + 15% from omeletBut you also get 12% incoming dmg.
      I think its not fair.
      The attack speed buff is usseles anyway,casue most of the daggers are skill based.Not to mention keep autoattacking someone who isnt somewhat CCed is realy hard due to ping and bad AA desing.Buffs from Assassin spirit are only for 7 sec,if devs take away the stacking mechanics on that they become OP as fuck.

      Just try compare Spears second Q and daggers second Q .... No wonder that spear are that strong when there is no draw back on theirs Q.
      Cd reduction is huge it means my second rotation comes first which is huge. I use single dagger and as far as not having cc that is your own choice there are skills that offer it. I didn't mean to get rid of the stacks just make them better manageable. Lastly I bind my keys so I am not sure what q is.
    • so cursed was brought up, let's consider it shall we?

      One handed curse staff is top tier for 1v1.
      Great curse has one of the highest AOE damage E's in the game.
      Demonic has been a staple of GVG's since launch.
      Life curse was undisputed as the best support class until this morning. (arcane might be better now)
      Cursed skull saw some use as a top tier dueling item. It's E is a little underwhelming admittedly though.
      damnation staff is arguebly the strongest zvz weapon in the game.

      Now let's compare that to daggers....

      1 handed did do some cool pve stuff, nothing ultimately useful though and that's gone with the new assassin spirit.
      dual daggers did a thing once in beta but now they're halberd tier
      claws can pull off some cool ganks, but ultimately are countered by anything higher than a T5 horse.
      bloodletter is the best gathering weapon in the game and can be used effectively with graveguard and bear trap to be on par with double bladed.
      deathgivers, I bought a pair for 250k and I still felt ripped off.

      Wow, such comparison...

      So in the entire tree you can gather, or you can kill gatherers and several other trees are on par for the latter.
    • drygulcher schrieb:

      so cursed was brought up, let's consider it shall we?

      One handed curse staff is top tier for 1v1.
      Great curse has one of the highest AOE damage E's in the game.
      Demonic has been a staple of GVG's since launch.
      Life curse was undisputed as the best support class until this morning. (arcane might be better now)
      Cursed skull saw some use as a top tier dueling item. It's E is a little underwhelming admittedly though.
      damnation staff is arguebly the strongest zvz weapon in the game.

      Now let's compare that to daggers....

      1 handed did do some cool pve stuff, nothing ultimately useful though and that's gone with the new assassin spirit.
      dual daggers did a thing once in beta but now they're halberd tier
      claws can pull off some cool ganks, but ultimately are countered by anything higher than a T5 horse.
      bloodletter is the best gathering weapon in the game and can be used effectively with graveguard and bear trap to be on par with double bladed.
      deathgivers, I bought a pair for 250k and I still felt ripped off.

      Wow, such comparison...

      So in the entire tree you can gather, or you can kill gatherers and several other trees are on par for the latter.
      1. one handed curse not even in 3 top weap for 1v1: fire, glaive, warbow, clarent much better. its E too clumsy and interruptible
      2. Great curse is great...for Mobs. In PvP, no one wants to stay in that small AoE for all 4 seconds of channel.
      Until you pay them for that :D
      3. Demonic... good but Lack of overall D.P.S. and being replaced by "another one fire staff" or clarent or glaive in 5v5.
      4. Lifecurse staff good (for pve).
      No one in pvp will stay in that cooler blader more than 1 s.
      5. Damnation... good for zvz, I agree.
      Nerfed today btw.

      Gank with cursed staff? Not possible.
      Mobility? Zero.
      Burst damage? Low.

      Daggers not worse.
      Cursed need somd buff in overall dps to stay in line.
      "Cursed Sickle" must be somewhat buffed or decrease cd.
    • cursed sickle is on par with all other AOE mage Q's. What's the numbers on that anyway? how many things need to be hit with it to increase it's damage over the stock Q?

      but that's besides the point, we're comparing the curse tree to the dagger tree.

      not curse to everything else, as for the most part, this game has done an okay job with balancing.

      So no mobility?
      Given the option, I highly doubt any curse user would switch W abilities with the dagger tree's W abilities once the novelty wore off and they realize just how dead the grass is on this side of the fence. (unless they were allowed to switch back, then I'm sure they would for gathering but honestly a T4 bloodletter is an hour away at most and is more than adequate for the job)



      Truth be told, I'm just really sad about the assassin spirit change as it ruined my character. Brought it from mediocre to completely useless and there's no fall back dagger as the rest just suck too.
    • Tested new "assassin spirit" today and I agree that it suck.
      It sucks so much, that it is now much worse than it was before.
      It was like +30% dmg -10% resist per stack, now it +6% dmg and -9% resist per stack, and it is not pure "toggle" skill, as it lasts just 15 sec, and then must be "toggled"again... OH MY GOD IT IS SH-_-T....
    • What would be actually pretty cool would be a 15% damage buff per stack and 10% damage taken that can be stacked all the way up until the weapons tier. Bring back the one shots AND make it super sketchy to use.
      would work well with all daggers, and although would make fights incredibly short the trade off for having no Q would make it still balanced As they would make a very easy target with any focus fire if they even approach one shot stacks.
    • Daggers are straight up fine.
      1hd dagger took a nerf with assassins spirit change but people like samlust making it work,
      Dual Daggers is Rediculously strong 1v1 burst right now (level to 70 get shadow edge and you can 3 stack spirit / stun / e kite - you wont lose a 1v1),
      Claws is one of the best mount dismounters in the game,
      Bloodletter is GvG viable / HG Viable / Gank Viable / 1v1 Viable / ZvZ Viable (highest resilience pen in the game) you use dash / lunging stab / royal boots, execute in, dash / roll out,
      Black Hands - we wont talk about black hands.
      Deathgivers are very underrated and people are unsure as to where they fit in the meta right now, but still not the worst weapon in the game.

      People who say daggers are bad dont know how to play daggers