[Guide] Refining, Crafting and profiting

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    • OsKiDo schrieb:

      @ZaZii
      what tier is now the most profitable on ore ?
      When I started the t6.3 was at 85k now it's 75k.

      Have you noticed that all the refined ressources price went down, or is it only specific to ore ?
      Maybe there are a lot of new refiners ?

      I feel like alll the prices are going down . ..
      I took a quick look at the market:
      seems like a lot more people are refining t5.3 and a lot more of them actually transmute the raw resources since it's often cheaper then to buy off market.

      Therefore, prices for 5.3 refined dropped by like 10-20k throughout the resource-types.
      And obviously t6.3 followed. (even though the raw resources there got a lot more expensive. From <10k/each, up to around 15k/each)

      Prices won't got down (much) since now it's actually balanced.
      If someone buys all the 5.3 raw to fck with prices, someone else just transmutes a new load and prices won't change a bit.
      That's a different story for 6.3, though - since that right now is way below transmute-prices - so if gatherers get less active or demand rises more, those will go even higher.
    • Thanks for the guide !

      I don't understand a sentence

      ZaZii schrieb:

      "What the cost-reduction does is: Every 100 reduction the focus-costs get cut in half.
      Which means with 400 you go from 100%->50%->25%->12,5%->6,25% focus costs of the base-value."

      i think i miss something because, with carrot farming, I am pretty sure the focus cost was 1000 at lvl 0 , 903 at lvl 1 ( with + 200 Specialization/lvl) and now with lvl 2 the cost is 835.

      What am i missing ?
    • Nuxy schrieb:

      Thanks for the guide !

      I don't understand a sentence

      ZaZii schrieb:

      "What the cost-reduction does is: Every 100 reduction the focus-costs get cut in half.
      Which means with 400 you go from 100%->50%->25%->12,5%->6,25% focus costs of the base-value."
      i think i miss something because, with carrot farming, I am pretty sure the focus cost was 1000 at lvl 0 , 903 at lvl 1 ( with + 200 Specialization/lvl) and now with lvl 2 the cost is 835.

      What am i missing ?
      Hey,

      I took a look at the destiny board: they changed the values for "focus cost efficiency".
      Most times, for crafting/refining mainly, it's just factored with 1000 to get a little more precision into the numbers. So instead of 400 being the cap, it's now 40.000. Similar result, though: every 10.000, it halves the focus-costs. 100%->50%->25%->12,5%->6,25%

      For farming, it for sure looks different.
      The total reduction would be 100*200(specs) + 100*100(main-node) so around 30.000 reduction.

      What you probably have missed is the reduction from the main-node. Try to do "baseFocus * 0,5 ^(totalReduction/10000)", with baseFocus being 1000 and totalReduction a sum of reduction from farming-node and carrot-specs.
      Since lvl2 carrot specs already means you have a few lvls in farming-node, your reduction should be more then +400 from the specs only.
    • XENOzzz schrieb:

      Zazzi i got everythign the same as you EXCEPT is there a reason why you do not take into account the COMPOUDING effect of the return rates ?! (mostly talking about refining here)
      what do you mean?

      the fact that if you throw 1000 in, get 500 back to throw in again? (so the math isn't "100% + return%", but a little more bit different)?
    • ZaZii schrieb:

      XENOzzz schrieb:

      Zazzi i got everythign the same as you EXCEPT is there a reason why you do not take into account the COMPOUDING effect of the return rates ?! (mostly talking about refining here)
      what do you mean?
      the fact that if you throw 1000 in, get 500 back to throw in again? (so the math isn't "100% + return%", but a little more bit different)?
      Yes, it is compounded, and its not just a "little more" its "A LOT" more !


      45% return rate actually gives you around 80% extra resources. The math is resources x (1+1 * .45+ 1 * .45 * .45+..... ) for 15% its around 18%?

      15% return rate35% return rate45% return rate
      111
      0.150.350.45
      0.02250.1050.2025
      0.0033750.03150.091125
      0.000506250.009450.04100625
      0.00007593750.0028350.0184528125
      0.0000113906250.00085050.008303765625
      0.000001708593750.000255150.003736694531
      0.00000025628906250.0000765450.001681512539
      0.000000038443359380.00002296350.0007566806426
      0.0000000057665039060.000006889050.0003405062892
      0.00000000086497558590.0000020667150.0001532278301
      0.00000000012974633790.00000062001450.00006895252355
      00.000000186004350.0000310286356
      00.0000000558013050.00001396288602
      00.00000001674039150.000006283298709
      00.000000005022117450.000002827484419
      00.0000000015066352350.000001272367989
      00.00000000045199057050.0000005725655949
      00.00000000013559717120.0000002576545177
      000.000000115944533
      000.00000005217503983
      000.00000002347876792
      000.00000001056544557
      000.000000004754450505
      000.000000002139502727
      000.0000000009627762272
      000.0000000004332493022
      000.000000000194962186
      000
      1.1764705881.51.818181818



      basically instead of reducing your cost by doing COST*(1-0.45) you should reduce it by 0.82 = COST*(1-0.82)
    • XENOzzz schrieb:

      ZaZii schrieb:

      XENOzzz schrieb:

      Zazzi i got everythign the same as you EXCEPT is there a reason why you do not take into account the COMPOUDING effect of the return rates ?! (mostly talking about refining here)
      what do you mean?the fact that if you throw 1000 in, get 500 back to throw in again? (so the math isn't "100% + return%", but a little more bit different)?
      Yes, it is compounded, and its not just a "little more" its "A LOT" more !

      45% return rate actually gives you around 80% extra resources. The math is resources x (1+1 * .45+ 1 * .45 * .45+..... ) for 15% its around 18%?

      15% return rate35% return rate45% return rate
      111
      0.150.350.45
      0.02250.1050.2025
      0.0033750.03150.091125
      0.000506250.009450.04100625
      0.00007593750.0028350.0184528125
      0.0000113906250.00085050.008303765625
      0.000001708593750.000255150.003736694531
      0.00000025628906250.0000765450.001681512539
      0.000000038443359380.00002296350.0007566806426
      0.0000000057665039060.000006889050.0003405062892
      0.00000000086497558590.0000020667150.0001532278301
      0.00000000012974633790.00000062001450.00006895252355
      00.000000186004350.0000310286356
      00.0000000558013050.00001396288602
      00.00000001674039150.000006283298709
      00.000000005022117450.000002827484419
      00.0000000015066352350.000001272367989
      00.00000000045199057050.0000005725655949
      00.00000000013559717120.0000002576545177
      000.000000115944533
      000.00000005217503983
      000.00000002347876792
      000.00000001056544557
      000.000000004754450505
      000.000000002139502727
      000.0000000009627762272
      000.0000000004332493022
      000.000000000194962186
      000
      1.1764705881.51.818181818


      basically instead of reducing your cost by doing COST*(1-0.45) you should reduce it by 0.82 = COST*(1-0.82)

      Well, that's no different from what I do, is it?
      I do it like that for my spreadsheet, so don't know why I would've done it different in the guide.


      ZaZii schrieb:

      The step further would be to craft in outland-territory.
      The differences are: 15% vs 20% (crafting/refining without focus) and 45% vs 48% (with focus).

      - Without using focus, those "5%-difference" are actually a lot more.
      Doing refining and crafting, you'd get overall 13% more output in the outlands compared to the city.
      - Even with focus, those "3%-difference" are actually up to 11% more output.
      ^ is probably the only thing in the guide where it mattered, and I did take into account the compounding of it.
    • XENOzzz schrieb:

      I am sorry but i don't see where you take that into account in your spreadsheet ?

      i only see (1-0.45) in your formula :

      i.imgur.com/IhtXXf7.png
      I thought it was going to be interesting...^^

      There are two big views:

      1) How many raw resources do I need for X done items.
      2) How many done items do I get from X raw resources.

      You're talking about 2), where if you throw resources for 100 items in, you'd be actually getting 181 done items with 45% return.
      I'm very often using the case 1), where I simply want to know how much raw stuff do I need for X resources, therefore simply cutting away the return percentage.

      Does that clear it up, or am I wrong and missing something?
    • thanks!

      last question, I am trying to figure out how to calculate the cost of a full book if I use my ore from labourer to refine.

      Should I only include the cost of a full book on the market (9000$) or should I include the renunciation cost of the ore I would get form that book + the book? (9000+48ore*price) ?

      im kinda lost, if I should include the renunication cost of selling those ore or not
    • XENOzzz schrieb:

      thanks!

      last question, I am trying to figure out how to calculate the cost of a full book if I use my ore from labourer to refine.

      Should I only include the cost of a full book on the market (9000$) or should I include the renunciation cost of the ore I would get form that book + the book? (9000+48ore*price) ?

      im kinda lost, if I should include the renunciation cost of selling those ore or not
      There isn't really a world in which I would use the market price of a journal in my calculation. Volume has picked up, and the spread has narrowed, but it is still not a very trustworthy evaluation.

      You are better off determining the value of a full journal in terms of the book and the output (Ore) separately, and then some sort of discount rate, due to the nature of needing a house, laborer, 22 hours of time and the liquidity of the book and output.

      If you go by the market price you can end up in a situation where the market is telling you that the full journal is worth more than the output and book combined, which is, under most circumstances, not reality. You would almost always want to pay more for an empty journal and the output from that journal, than you would for the same journal full.
    • XENOzzz schrieb:

      thanks!

      last question, I am trying to figure out how to calculate the cost of a full book if I use my ore from labourer to refine.

      Should I only include the cost of a full book on the market (9000$) or should I include the renunciation cost of the ore I would get form that book + the book? (9000+48ore*price) ?

      im kinda lost, if I should include the renunication cost of selling those ore or not
      If you use it for calculations for done items, I'd use the sell-price of the full journal.
      (I also am including the book-filling into my calculations whenever it matters)

      Even if you have your own army of laborers, I would use the sell-price of full journals instead of their "actual" output-value.
      Main reason is to encapsulate those both operations.
      Example on "encapsulating" operations: you can gather resources and refine and craft wich those. Overall it seems like the best move since you don't have to invest silver. But if you encapsulate those, crafting and refining will net millions of potential profits within an hour of a day, while gathering will bottle-neck the rest and be pretty ineffective on its own. So if you bought the raw or refined resources instead, you'd be saving tons of time and making more out of refining/crafting.

      If you do use laborers and think about journals from market, the calculation for "journal-value" isn't that difficult.
      You got output form laborer, e.g. 38.4 * happiness, and for individual enchantment you use its' chance (like 1/1000 or sth.). So you'd end up with a book-value quite a bit above 38.4* flat resources.
    • I never thought to ask this question before, but is there any bonus to studying an item in an black zone territory vs caerleon vs royal city? Or is it all the same in terms of fame gained from studying?
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