[Guide] Refining, Crafting and profiting

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    • [Guide] Refining, Crafting and profiting

      Updated/Written: 25.11.2017 (before Kay update)
      Still mostly up-to-date as of 17.06 since there haven't been mechanical changes in refining/crafting.

      Other guides:
      Laborers - get your Slavecamp going!
      Gathering - Everything there is to know.

      Sup,

      I've seen many people do same mistakes and frequently asking the same questions surrounding this topic.

      Content
      • Refining
        • Perks of refining yourself
        • Importance of Masteries
        • Strategies to master refining
        • Profiting from Refining
      • Crafting
        • Worth it crafting yourself?
        • Importance of Masteries
        • Strategies to unlock t8
        • Strategies to master specializations
      • Profiting from Crafting
        • Laborers
        • Daily focus
        • Different markets
        • Advanced strategies
        • Crafting for <22% resource-value
      • FAQ
        • My spreadsheets


      Refining
      Perks of refining yourself

      So, why would anyone want to refine himself?

      Let's take the biggest "profits" of the current auction house:
      T8.3 refined cloth on the market is offered for 950k/each. Refining it yourself costs you only 712k/each.
      That means, if you need -lets say- 8 cloth and 8 similarly priced leather for a bag, you'd be saving over 3 million silver by doing the refining yourself instead of buying it of the market.

      Since this example is pretty niche, here is a more common usage:
      Profits per 10k focus based on different masteries and same profit/one refined resource. (In short: Daily theoretical profits from refining cloth)
      On the left: my main refiner with 100/100/100/100/100
      On the right, my alt refiner with 100/100/100/48/31

      As you can see, 8.3 stands out here as-well.
      Tier 8.2 is only that bad because raw resource spiked from 20k/each to 60k/each. Therefore you do not make profits even when refining with focus.
      The more common tiers, t5 and t6, are more stable and even here you can see profits of over 1million/day when refining the .3 and mix in some .2.
      Note, I took the prices to buy ressources instantly.
      If one was to buy-order the raw resources, you'd see profits more then double of what I've got in the picture!

      Importance of Masteries

      You can see the difference in Masteries in the picture above.
      Missing 69 masteries on t8 and a few t7 masteries, that character only gains 1/4th of the possible profit compared to the fully mastered one.

      What exactly do masteries do?
      Masteries reduce the resource costs for the specific resource tier by a lot and for other tiers by a little, too.
      Overall cost-reduction can be around 400, 250 being from specific tier and another 150 across all the different tiers.

      What the cost-reduction does is: Every 100 reduction the focus-costs get cut in half.
      Which means with 400 you go from 100%->50%->25%->12,5%->6,25% focus costs of the base-value.

      Here some example:
      A character with 1/1/1/1/1 masteries can craft .0 resources in up to following amounts daily: 214 / 116 / 64 / 36 / 21 (from t4 to t8)
      A character with 100/100/100/100/100 can craft .0 resources in up to following amounts: 3333 / 1798 / 1000 / 563 / 320.

      You can see that you can basically refine 15 times as much with same focus!
      Profit-wise, if you can craft X resources for 100k profit without having masteries, then with full masteries that profit would be up to 1500k. (since you'd refine 15x as much stuff)


      Strategies to master refining

      Mastering refining isn't as tough as it may seem.

      Here the amount of stacks of .0 resources you need to get refined in order to jump 0->100:
      t4: 130 stacks of t4.0 to go from 0 masteries to 100 on t4-refining.
      t5: 44 stacks of t5.0
      t6: 27 stacks of t6.0
      t7: 29 stacks of t7.0
      t8: 13 stacks of t8.0

      With how masteries work, to get 76 masteries you only need half of what you'd need for 100.
      Having 76 across the board already gives you 300 cost-reduction out of 400 possible, which is a good step.
      Now - making same fame as from 0->76, you would get from 76->100 mastery for 400 cost-reduction
      (which, if you understood how the focus-reduction works, HALVES your focus-costs again... which is still a must-have)

      Those numbers up there seem pretty high at first glance, and they actually are.
      13 stacks of t8.0 refined are worth an average of 200 million silver.
      27 stacks of t6.0 refined are wroth 40 million silver.
      Even those 130 stacks of t4.0 cost 20 million silver.

      But - you aren't refining all at once, and those hints may help:

      - Cheapest way to get that much refining done is:
      Put up buy-orders for raw resources or do the math on the sell-orders, maybe it makes sense to buy those instantly.
      Then, get rid of the refined ressources as soon as possible to get silver back and re-invest into raw resources.
      If you do it right, you won't even be losing money during that process!

      - Sometimes it makes sense to go a little into loss in order to gain masteries.
      Losing a few million but mastering the refining is definitely worth it since the additional focus-reduction pays for the losses in no time.

      - For the lowest tiers, t4/t5 i recommend visiting the green cities.
      You can get tons of raw t4.0 and some t5.0 in there for very good prices and if you manage to carry it back to Caerleon, you can even profit a little.


      Profiting from Refining


      I've already thrown in some numbers earlier.

      Here another picture of my refiners' theoretical profits.

      What I did there is basically:
      "Profits"(sell-price minus costs from buying resources instantly) divided by "the focus to refine the individual resources" and multiplied by 10k (to get the daily profits, as in profits per 10k focus)
      Red markings indicate that there is some profit without even using focus (just the usual 15% return in city)
      Blanks mean that even with focus you'd be at a loss (most likely because the raw resources were bought up and the current price is just too damn high)

      It's pretty obvious that the .3 resources are the money-makers here.
      Potentially, you could craft too much of that, so you'd have to throw in some .2 and/or .1 resources in-between.
      (I mean, I "could" refine 190x t6.3 cloth a day, but there is simply no demand for that much.
      That's why I pushed other branches and now can do like 24x cloth, 24x steel, 24x planks, 24x leather and would already use up more then half of the daily focus)

      The numbers above area also heavily influenced by the market, so if someone was to buy off all those cheap 8.2 logs, it would not have potential 3kk/day in profits.

      If you get the raw stuff via buy-orders you will save so much silver that profits may double or tripple from that.
      I know a guy who is focusing on refining the .1 and some .2 resources, and from ordering the raw resources, he still pulls millions daily.


      Here the masteries I got in the different branches.

      I also added my alt-refiner of cloth to the list and examples of focus-costs to get t6.0 or t8.3 refined.
      As you see, 166 focus to get t8.3 refined for potential 100k to 200k profits - not bad, is it? (If only the demand on t8.3 was as great^^)

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 5 mal editiert, zuletzt von ZaZii ()

    • Crafting

      Worth it crafting yourself?


      Yes and No.

      If you take a look at the armors on the normal market: some of them are set at even below 50% resource-costs.
      To match those prices, one has to dump focus and/or use laborers.
      Therefore, getting to that point is very tough and costly.

      One possible niche: Artefact armors.
      Crafters are avoiding those for obvious reasons: you can not simply craft 1579178263 of those and study for easy masteries since there are just as many artefacts on the market and some of those cost more then the actual resources.
      Being able to craft .2 and .3 artefact-gear saves tons of resource-costs which means: Profit.

      For weapons, that's a different story.
      Many weapons on higher tier are set around the resource-price.
      That means: If you use laborers and/or focus, you profit.

      Based on those observasions, I do NOT recommend crafting armors unless you already got an army of laborers working for you.
      Even with an army of laborers, I recommend focusing weapons because it is a lot easier to break-even and profit there and you have a lot less competition.
      Eventually we will get to a point where the weapon-market is more competitive and starting in there may become similarly tough, but we are not anywhere near that.


      Importance of Masteries


      Very similar to refining: Masteries lower you focus-costs to 6,25%

      Best example:
      T8.3 artefact costs up to 111k focus without any masteries to craft.
      With masteries, it would be affordable 7k focus/craft.

      More common example:
      T7.0 normal weapon costs 9088 focus base, which you can lower down to 570 focus.
      Now, given that those weapons would have a profit-span of >35k/each, your minimum daily profit would be 600k silver.

      Doing 7.1 or 8.0 instead, you'd have potential profits of 1400k/day.
      I'll let your imagination run wild for 8.2/8.3.

      Without full masteries, those profits would be cut down to 1/4th if not less.

      Another side-benefit from masteries: Quality.

      I'll spare you the math and give you the graph on the quality-chances between 0 and 1000 quality-increase.
      (1000 being around what you get with 100/100/100/100 masteries)


      Since it's hard to see:
      The chance on Masterpiece go from 0,1% up to 1,1%,
      and for excellent from 1% up to slightly over 10%.

      Focus also increases quality,
      not exactly sure on the numbers, but it feels like focus basically doubles the chance on Masterpiece
      (from a sample of 1000 items, I got 22 masterpiece) while not changing the excellent or other chances much.

      Most obvious difference in quality is:
      you're getting almost no "normal" quality items with high masteries, and even 50% chance on outstanding+.
      So, out of 100 items, you'd have on average: 2 normal, 48 good, 38 outstanding, 11 excellent, 1 masterpiece.
      Seems a lot better then the average quality with 530 increase (masteries: 40/60/40/10): 10 norm, 58 good, 25 outst., 6 excellent and 0-1MP.
      Or the worst-case*: 42 normal, 44 good, 11 outstanding, 2-3 excellent, 0 MP.
      * : e.g. you unlocked t8 with assassin jacket, so got 0 on hunters jacket but still craft one with quality-increase of 130


      Strategies to unlock t8


      Some general hints:
      - Use Buy-orders for resources! This cuts your costs by 10-30% and most times turns loss into profit.

      - Calculate Fame per silver to find out the "cheapest" tier and enchantment to get those millions of crafting-fame.
      Here is my table.
      I normally do it for specific resources, but for the sake of keeping it short I averaged the prices across all resources
      (e.g. t6.0 cloth/leather/steel/planks would have an average price of 1743 silver/each)

      The "essence" if it remains, t6.0 being the cheapest way. Followed by t4.0/t4.1/t6.1 and maybe even t7.0.
      For some resources, T7.1 is also recommended.

      - Save your LP for the masteries since the core-tree you eventually max out but the masteries need more work.


      To unlock t8, there are several ways:

      slow and steady

      This would be the normal way for players who don't have mountains of silver to burn.

      Basically, you craft small amounts of items daily and try to sell them for minimal or no loss, maybe even turn profits from some items.

      I recommend crafting all sub-items!
      e.g. if you manufacture bows, not only focus the Warbows but also craft normal bows, longbows and artefact-bows.
      It will increase your progression by a lot and selling other variations doesn't even hinder your sales of the focused items.
      That means: you sell 10 warbows + 10 longbows as fast as 10 warbows alone.

      Naturally, you'd want to craft all the different variations of an item to get most fame per day without stockpiling your goods.
      Following this, one can unlock t7 within a few days and t8 within a month (depending on how fast you sell and re-craft your items)

      all in and study


      This is the favorite of rich players.

      Just dump 20 million silver into resources, craft items and study those.

      20 million being the cheapest way to earn 13 million crafting-fame, which hard-unlocks Weapons to t8.
      Half of that is needed for Armor-Chests, and 1/4th for offhands or Armor-Helmet/Shoes

      If you got LP, you can 1/3 those costs down to 6,6 million to unlock t8 weapon core-tree.
      If you're burning silver like that, I would not recomment dropping LP into this and rather invest them into specializations.

      all in and minimal loss

      This is if you can afford binding a lot of silver (e.g. 60 million for weapons) over the next few days/weeks but want to eventually get most/all of it back.

      You'd craft some t4.1/t4.2 to unlock t5, then swap to t5.0/5.1/5.2 until you unlock t6, and so on.
      Reaching T8, you'll have a Chest filled with all tiers, enchantments and variations of a weapon.

      To repeat: selling 10 4.1 warbows, 10 4.1 longbows, 10 4.1 normal bows, 5 4.1 artefact-bows and mixing some 4.2 in there will be MUCH easier/faster then selling 50 4.1 warbows.
      So, just scatter your priorities for this stage since pushing specializations at the end will be mostly done via t6.1+

      Next phase would be to sell that stash day to day until the chest is empty and you got most if not all of the silver back.

      mix of some above

      You can customize your strategy a little.

      I myself prefer to craft and study until unlocking something I can actually sell (e.g. t6+).
      So, I craft and study t4.0/t4.1 until t6 is unlocked. Main reason: selling t4/t5 for little to no loss is pretty tough.

      If it is not that urgent to rush t8, I do the "slow and steady" strategy starting at t6.
      Market for t6.0/t6.1 is pretty healthy, so unlocking t7 like that is fairly easy, and starting with t7 you got even more items to offer on the way to t8.

      If I need to rush t8, I go all in and minimal loss, stockpiling t6 / t6.1 / t7 / t7.1 and then selling those within the next days/weeks.




      Strategies to master specializations

      Same strategies as above.

      You can go slow and steady, go all in to study, or all in and minimize losses. (Or, again, a mix of those)

      At this point, it comes down to how urgent you need those masteries!

      If you plan on crafting 8.3 and it costs you >30k focus, then it would make sense to stockpile items just to reach that point where you can at least craft with <30k focus.
      Most times I don't see the need to rush specializations, though.
      So, I do the slow and steady way or stockpile a little to reduce daily crafting-needs to a minimum
      (that I can just log in, re-fresh sell-orders, and then get back to PvE/PvP/Gathering/whatever else)

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 6 mal editiert, zuletzt von ZaZii ()

    • Profiting from Crafting
      Part1


      Now probably the most interesting part.

      How can you profit in that seemingly broken economy of ours?!

      Laborers

      (See this guide for more details: [Guide] Laborers - Get your slave-camp working!)

      Biggest cost-saver right here.
      Crafting .0 goods, laborers basically save you up to 30% resource-costs!

      That's right.
      If you normally spend 100k to craft a t7 weapon and could only sell it for 100k, then the laborers will turn it into profits of 20-30k.

      If you read the guide and/or know the specifics to daily returns per laborer, then you can approximate how many houses you need to invest in to keep your operation running smooth.
      (smooth as in: having no excess of books and rather some down-time during which you'd feed them the cheaper books, t6 or t5)

      Examples from ingame: (almost?) ALL top crafters use laborers
      - Some of them got like 300 of those, as in 10 fully upgraded islands!
      - If you limit them to t7/t8 books, 100 should easily cover most operations.
      - If you do it small-/medium-scale, I still advice to level up 1 full island with the appropriate mix of laborers
      (If you only do mage-stuff, then go all Imbuer and 1 house for 1tinkerer/1blacksmith/1fletcher just to have that journal-access)

      If you plan on doing any competitive crafting, there is (sadly) little way around laborers.

      You'll just have to invest into them,
      or cover some niche where they aren't as important,
      or buy books, fill those, and sell them on market for 50-80% value
      (so, instead of saving 20-30% resource-costs due to laborers, you'd be "only" saving 10-25%)



      Focus


      Another powerful tool right here, if used right.
      Most common usage is to craft .2 and .3 resources/equipment.

      Very comparable to refining-profits, so just look at those pictures somewhere above to get an estimate of prifits.

      With high masteries you can craft high tiered and enchanted weapons/gear for little focus-costs and therefore build whole sets for little input
      (since you got returns of 45% return instead of 15% - basically saving another 30% of costs, which means profit-span gets huge)

      different markets

      This point is also pretty important in terms of turning profits or at least getting sales through.

      The most relevant markets are:
      Caerleon Auctionhouse,
      Black Market,
      GreenCities Auctionhouses,
      Player-Player-trade (trade channel or trade sub-forum)

      Their individual importance varies depending on the item(s) you want to sell.
      Simple examples:
      - Ressources you can not sell on Black Market, and via direct trade mostly only in relevant amounts for a good price.
      - T8 sales are often the easiest over the Black Market.
      - Highly enchanted or very niche items, e.g. t7.3+ masterpiece weapons, often need additional advertisement via chat/forum.


      Here are some advantages and disadvantages to the different markets:
      Caerleon Auctionhouse

      advantages:
      - High traffic for most goods,
      - The to-go market for selling refined resources.

      disadvantages:
      - Competition can be, depending on your branch, very active and strong.
      Selling easily craftable items, mostly armors, is tough due to competitors utilizing laborers, focus and advanced strategies to push down the costs to hurtful point (I've seen armor getting sold for literally below salvage-value!)


      Black Market

      This one puts buy-orders for equipment and raises those over time (based on PvE actitivy, e.g. castle-chests spike the prices by a lot)

      Main advantage:
      - It buys items nobody in their right mind would buy, e.g. 7.3 scholar robes, 8.2 enigmatic staffs, or bulks of bags/capes at once.
      This is THE market to get rid of t7+ items for minimal loss, and -if timed right- even profit.

      - It is very reliable since it's based on the PvE-actitivy, which is most times constant.

      Disadvantage:
      - As the tiers rise, the volume of items lowers.
      Therefore, you can "only" sell a hand-full of e.g. t8 bows a week.

      Overall - I strongly suggest everyone to get to know the Black Market.
      If you craft small amounts of items, Black Market might be able to take all those off your hands for no loss.
      If you craft bulks of items, Black Market will still be a reliable "customer", taking a few items off your hands on daily basis.

      Make yourself happy, make the PvE-Community happy - Use Black Market!



      GreenCities Auctionhouses

      Those are pretty underestimated and ignored by most crafters.
      - Which is its' advantage, since you got less competition.
      You can place buy-orders or even insta-buy many items way below their value in Caerleon.

      - I stated it above, but to repeat: This would be a great market to get low-tier resources in bulk for good price.
      - Being mostly ignored, you can even snipe some heavily discounted items here from people who don't know the "real" value.

      Disadvantages:
      - The volume for higher tier items is pretty low, so for crafters only useful in the early stage.
      - It also has the disadvantage of being "not in Caerleon" - means you will need to transport the goods around.

      Overall - There is a lot of "trading" to be done, which indirectly means that you can get cheap resources for crafting in here.


      Player-Player-Trade

      This is mostly used by traders who get stuff via buy-orders/chat-spam for cheap and then instantly resell it for a profit.

      One use would be to move huge quantities of items for a good price here. Every once in a while people post good offers there.

      Also, if you do have very niche interests, e.g. highly enchanted/quality/tier/artifact gear, try this way to get buyers for your items or sellers of resources.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 3 mal editiert, zuletzt von ZaZii ()

    • Profiting from Crafting

      Part2



      advanced strategies and hints

      Those are the hints/strategies which may save or earn you millions of silver.

      crafting with resource-return

      This point is pretty obvious if one does the short math.

      It is in (almost) no case more profitable to craft on a personal island for 0 tax and 0 return compared to crafting in city with >0 tax and 15% return.

      Exceptions would be the very low tier items where 15% return is less then the tax - and even there not always.
      While writing this, I am crafting t4.0 claws in Caerleon at a 15% tax station.
      The 15% tax makes me may 308 silver to craft a pair of t4.0 claws.
      But, through the 15% return, I'd get an average of 4,8 t4 resources back.
      With resource-prices for t4.0 being well above 64 the return is more profitable then saving the crafting-tax.
      (64 silver/resource would be the price where 4,8 resources are worth 308 silver)

      This advantage gets bigger the more expensive the resources are.
      T8.3 costs to craft 50k, but you'd be getting back 15% of 32*900k resource-costs, which in silver means 4.3 million worth of returns!


      The step further would be to craft in outland-territory.
      The differences are: 15% vs 20% (crafting/refining without focus) and 45% vs 48% (with focus).

      - Without using focus, those "5%-difference" are actually a lot more.
      Doing refining and crafting, you'd get overall 13% more output in the outlands compared to the city.
      - Even with focus, those "3%-difference" are actually up to 11% more output.

      In other words, crafting in outlands could cut your resource-costs by another 10%
      The risk with this: you'd have to transport goods between Caerleon and Outlands.
      An organized guild/party, however, can help you with that.


      Transmuting resources

      When it comes to 7.3 and 8.3, sometimes even 7.2/8.2, transmuting resources is more reliable then gatherers selling those.

      Examples:
      Take a look at what 8.3 raw costs on the market.
      And now compare it to 8.2 raw plus the transmuation-costs.

      Quite often, enchanting 8.3 saves you 10-50k per raw resource, which results in refined resources being up to 200k cheaper in production.

      This is pretty niche, so will only serve good for pretty hardcore crafter. Still, some of them are not aware of this alternative.


      Quality turning the profit

      Especially with higher tiers, Quality starts to matter.

      A 8.2 masterpiece item is as strong as the average 8.3 item.
      A 8.2 MP hellgate item would be even better then 8.3 excellent hellgate item (if I'm not mistaken)

      Therefore, in times of need - as opposed to the stalemate we got going in Cumbria - those masterpiece items will be VERY valuable.

      T8.3 is almost 4x as expensive as T8.2.
      Therefore, a Masterpiece 8.2 could be effectively priced at t8.3 range, means around 4x its' normal price.

      The more instesting and common usage would be for t8.1 masterpiece items, which you get from crafting t8.0 in bulk and enchanting to 8.1.
      A T8.1 Masterpiece item would be
      - almost as strong as t8.3 - which is 20x as expensive,
      - and a little stronger then t8.2 - which is 8x as expensive.
      Therefore, one could place t8.1 masterpiece item at around 15x of its' resource-value.

      Having those profit-spikes from Masterpiece items allows one to take small hits on the bad-/average-quality items.

      A little more common would be the Excellent-quality.
      A 8.1 Excellent item is maybe 10 item-power behind normal T8.2
      That means you can easily set it at well above 2x resource-value, maybe even 3x resource-value.

      Taking those factors into consideration, crafting 100 items with good quality would result in item-value of 115
      (getting 1 MP for 15x value, 10 excellents for 2x value/each and 89 other for average 0,9 value/each)
      With those pricing-factors for MP(x15) and Excellent(x2), the other qualities could be sold for 75% of their "norm"
      ("norm" already being with usage of laborers and/or focus).

      This explains some of the t7/t8 armor-pieces being priced that low.
      Their crafters are turning profits from selling the excellent/masterpiece armors.


      buy orders

      Again with that, but I can not repeat it enough.
      Buy-orders save you tons of silver - given that you got capital to actually keep buy-orders up without slowing down your production by too much.
      (e.g. if you're sitting at 30k focus, do not wait for buy-orders and maybe insta-buy resources)


      using alts

      Not going to lie here - alts do give one a huge advantage here.
      I myself got 1 refiner and 1 crafter(for over 5 different t8 item-types)
      If I split that crafting on 5 different characters, their LP would max out specializations in no time and I'd be running 100/100/100/80+ on those 5+ weapons/armors.
      The advantage would be the daily focus from those additional characters.
      Now, I can maybe profit 1,5 million/day from crafting the most profitable things in my portfolio using focus*.
      With 5+ different characters, that'd be 1million per character as a minimum (like in the example above: crafting t7.0/t7.1/t8.0 stuff with focus) for a total of over 5 million a day as a base - ranging to 10 million/day.

      Being lazy and not utilizing that many alts may be one point, but I also hope to get some synergy for crafting (e.g. having t8 crafting in nodeA would buff tX crafting in other nodes) in a patch at some point.

      * : I specifically said "focus", since a big chunk profit is done by simply having laborers and not even utilizing focus.




      crafting for <22% resource-value


      Some theory here:

      Let's say a crafter has laborers in t8 house, which means he could work t7 journals at 150% - meaning have a 30% resource-return on crafting .0 items. Let's assume he does the crafting using focus in the guild-territory.

      With that, his costs would be: 100% - 48%(return with focus) - 30%(laborer-journals) = 22%!

      Those 22% could also be subject to the "quality turning the profit"-strategy.
      Means, he could literally salvage the normal items and turn profits by selling the few excellent/masterpiece ones.

      Obviously not many crafters are willing to do that much work for little profits from the quality-gamble.
      Yet - this explains how items could theoretically cost <25% resource-price and still not hurt the crafters in a major way.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 4 mal editiert, zuletzt von ZaZii ()

    • FAQ



      just a placeholder


      Could I've written it shorter?
      Not really.

      This covers many different special cases and offers many practical examples and theoretical ideas.

      If I was to answer one single question, e.g. "What tier should I use to push crafting", the answer would be maybe that one picture and a few words.
      The actual crafting-process is deeper then that, though - since there are several strategies to it.

      It also involves resource-costs, which can be lowered by refining yourself. Refining being not that much different from crafting - math-wise - it also shows the differences between masteries and offers theoretical profits.

      The main idea of this guide was to highlight the importance of laborers, focus/masteries and other factors or advanced strategies which explain the seemingly ridiculous prices on the market. Mainly helping some desperate crafters to break-even or even profit off his traits.

      My spreadsheets
      I just copied and trimmed my sheet of some useless and personal stuff, and here is that copy:
      docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d…b91uKz6U/edit?usp=sharing

      If you want to use it, you can copy it to your own account and use/modify/do whatever you want.
      There are no explanations, though - and I don't feel like describing every single function there is^^.
      Most important ones:
      - calculate how much fame/gear you have to craft for which masteries (e.g. 0->100 core-tree, or 52->84 specialization, ...)
      - calculate your refining-focus-costs based on masteries
      - calculate profit per focus based on the above and the manually typed in prices for raw and refined resources
      - calculate profits for crafted items in a neat sheet (from t4.0->t8.3) with possible factors/additions like artefacts or laborers or focus-reduction.

      Not sure if I will update it, as I do tinker a lot for my own spreadsheet, but only a fraction of it actually stays.
      Also, there is still tons of old data in there or just notes in-between.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 3 mal editiert, zuletzt von ZaZii ()

    • Dark_Session schrieb:

      Great guide!

      Would you suggest to set up a guild island for a second char, or a normal island? I can afford to pay premium for my main account and my second character. I really want to stop gathering in the blackzone because its way to risky.
      Thx.

      I got a guild-island for my alt since the alt does not need to be in the guild and therefore it's no issue.
      The guild-island is just a preference-thing. I did not do the math on what makes more sense cost-/use-wise.
      Guild-island offers a spot for guild hall, which houses 15 laborers in one small neat spacing - which is more chill then running between 5 different houses^^.
      You can also add several houses if guild-island is high enough.
    • Wow, another great guide - Thanks!

      Question/clarification on the leveling refining section.

      ZaZii schrieb:

      t4: 130 stacks of t4.0 to go from 0 masteries to 100 on t4-refining.
      t5: 44 stacks of t5.0
      t6: 27 stacks of t6.0
      t7: 29 stacks of t7.0
      t8: 13 stacks of t8.0
      Am I correct to assume that these numbers are using the base 15% return rate and no LP?
      [url='https://tinyurl.com/y7d4nfx5']AO Quick Reference Guide[/url]

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    • Grimhawke-EB schrieb:

      Wow, another great guide - Thanks!

      Question/clarification on the leveling refining section.

      ZaZii schrieb:

      t4: 130 stacks of t4.0 to go from 0 masteries to 100 on t4-refining.
      t5: 44 stacks of t5.0
      t6: 27 stacks of t6.0
      t7: 29 stacks of t7.0
      t8: 13 stacks of t8.0
      Am I correct to assume that these numbers are using the base 15% return rate and no LP?
      Those numbers show the amount of refined you need to produce in order to cover the needed fame(hard-grind, so no LP).

      So, no - this does not include 15% return.
      Using 15% return, you'd need 15% less resources to produce those amounts up there.
      e.g. to get 13 refined t8 stacks, you'd have to hoard resources for only 11 stacks using 15% return, or around 10 stacks with 20% return.

      (But I did assume premium - because that's one thing crafting doesn't work -in any acceptable- way without^^)
    • Thank you for this great work. That will help new players a lot and spoil some profits for experienced players.

      I disagree with crafting <22% resource value.

      1. Time is money. Risk is money. You count return in black zone territory, but sell in Caerleon.

      2. Focus has its own value. At the beggining you write how you get millions/day refining with focus and in the end you just spend it to craft some .0.

      3. Journals have its own value. You can sell them right now at the auction

      4. Labourers itself has value. Price of returned resources - price of journal is its value per day. I do not even count amortization of blocks and furniture (and it costs a lot)

      5. Excellent and Masterpiece items are very hard to sell for its real value (because very few players understand item power and compare different tiers) and very hard to price correctly.
    • Addon schrieb:

      Thank you for this great work. That will help new players a lot and spoil some profits for experienced players.

      I disagree with crafting <22% resource value.

      1. Time is money. Risk is money. You count return in black zone territory, but sell in Caerleon.

      2. Focus has its own value. At the beggining you write how you get millions/day refining with focus and in the end you just spend it to craft some .0.

      3. Journals have its own value. You can sell them right now at the auction

      4. Labourers itself has value. Price of returned resources - price of journal is its value per day. I do not even count amortization of blocks and furniture (and it costs a lot)

      5. Excellent and Masterpiece items are very hard to sell for its real value (because very few players understand item power and compare different tiers) and very hard to price correctly.
      That's one view, probably the most common one.
      Normally I agree on this. Whenever someone comes up to me with "can you craft XYZ pls, preferably with focus" I do quick math in my head on what's the focus is worth (as in, if I did anything else with that focus, what would I get as profits - mostly ending up at >1 million/10k focus)

      The example up there simply shows the limitations/extremes of crafting.
      What does stop me from crafting for 22%?
      - Moving to and from Caerleon I could time with our guilds' caravans and therefore got almost 0 risk over a total of 20 minutes back and forth.
      - My daily focus would suffice for over 15 sets or 30 weapons or 60 armors of t7.0 (or half that for t8.0),
      - Selling journals is almost the same as utilizing those since you get 50-80% of their value. Ofc. for t7 the savings you'd get will not be 30% but more like 15% (so with that, you'd be crafting at overall 37% instead of 22%)
      - Same story for laborers. At some point, you will get the stone-investment back and after that it's pure profit, which you can also see as "cost-reduction"
      - Quality not being "worth it", that's a fair point. Currently, guilds do not fight as much, so they do not need to utilize the quality-items from the market or even the market itself (having hoarded stacks of resources already).

      If a crafter wasn't eager for profits, that's what one could do.

      An alternate view on those 22%:
      Again: it shows your minimal costs.
      Means, if items normally go for 85% of the resource value, you'd be making up to 63% profits from utilizing those tricks.
      Other crafters, who do not have access to black zone and/or laborers and/or focus-reduction, they would get a lot less profits. Which only snow-balls your progression.
      The "basic" crafter only sees the 15% reduction from city - so he's mostly crafting at 85% and therefore 0% profits.
    • Added those spreadsheets of mine:

      I just copied and trimmed my sheet of some useless and personal stuff, and here is that copy:
      docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d…b91uKz6U/edit?usp=sharing

      If you want to use it, you can copy it to your own account and use/modify/do whatever you want.
      There are no explanations, though - and I don't feel like describing every single function there is^^.
      Most important ones:
      - calculate how much fame/gear you have to craft for which masteries (e.g. 0->100 core-tree, or 52->84 specialization, ...)
      - calculate your refining-focus-costs based on masteries
      - calculate profit per focus based on the above and the manually typed in prices for raw and refined resources
      - calculate profits for crafted items in a neat sheet (from t4.0->t8.3) with possible factors/additions like artefacts or laborers or focus-reduction.

      Not sure if I will update it, as I do tinker a lot for my own spreadsheet, but only a fraction of it actually stays.
      Also, there is still tons of old data in there or just notes in-between.


      And, yes... Those could be seen as "trade-secrets", but I'm not in the business of hoarding silver for myself - it's a game ffs.
      While those sheets already go above and beyond what most people are doing on calculations for the market/crafting/game itself, there is still tons of potential improvements to be done and I know people who stepped that game up even by those standards.

      If you got interesting suggestions, I'm open to it.
      Currently I'm tinkering at a calculator for crafting-costs for the different items based on masteries.
      For the normal items, it scales almost 1:1 with base refining focus, but for artifacts there is some dark magic I haven't been able to figure out, yet.
      Simplest solution would be to take the base-numbers as they are, but I'm sure there is some formula that gets me the base-numbers from putting in other, more easily obtainable, numbers.