Axes, how they perform and some quick suggestions.

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    • Axes, how they perform and some quick suggestions.

      So I've been playing axes ever since launch. At this moment, axe is most definitely the weakest weapon out all of the melee weapon choices. It's short range, difficulty to stick to targets and difficulty to hit deadly chops without people dodge rolling them (cause let's be honest, none of the other W's actually are worth it). My understanding is that axes are supposed to be a high dmg weapon, and if you put pen to paper and compare numbers on dummy targets that definitely is the case. However, punching out the numbers never have been the problem regarding axes. The big issue they suffer from, unlike any other melee weapon, is that they have no way of actually sticking to their opponent. You can't outtrade mobility skills with the enemy cause they will always have either the distance, or just another movement speed skill on you. This forces axes to be very depending on allies, especially frosts. They don't do well in 1v1, they don't do well in ZvZ and they underperform in both GvG 5v5's and GvG 20v20's to any other dps.

      I have a few suggestions that could possibly shine some light on axes.

      - Give both axe Q's a new buff, called something along the lines of 'berserker's spirit' or w/e fits in with lore. For the sake of these suggestions, I'll refer to it as berserker's spirit. Berserker's spirit is a short lasting self buff that should fall off everytime you cannot connect Q's on any target for a short period of time (self buff lasts about 2.5 seconds) and that increases your movement speed by 3% and your dmg by 3% (numbers should be tweaked prob) and stacks up a certain amount of times (4-5 times maybe?).

      - Let all dmg and debuffs from axe W's and E's scale with the amount of stacks of berserker spirit you have on you. (i.e. Deadly chop deals more dmg and removes more resistances, Axe E's do increased dmg and have their secondary effect improved). I always found it odd that a curse armor reducing buff is as effective as a single target armor reduce skill like deadly chop.

      - Change weapon range accordingly with the actual reach of the weapon, like they did with spears. Halberds/carrioncallers should reach further then the one handed axe/scythe. This way you don't punish people as hard for picking a 2 handed weapon since they will be harder to reach themselves.

      - Remove adrenaline boost and battle frenzy, they don't really benefit the axe playstyle at all. I can't think of any W that really meshes well with the axe playstyle at the moment.

      - Change the Halberd E to something that actually corresponds with the Halberd. Introduce a skill called 'takedown'. Pins the enemy on the end of your pointy stick and forces him to the ground. Deals dmg corresponding with the amount of berserker buffs and stuns the target for a certain amount of seconds corresponding with the amount of berserker's spirit buffs.

      - Change the Greataxe E to legsweep. A skill that only does one sweep instead of you spinning, only strikes in a 180 degree arc in front of you, but deals far more damage and applies a lasting slow on all enemies both dmg and slow depending on berserker spirit stacks.

      I never played with the one handed axe so I'm not sure how I should or even if it should be changed.

      These changes not only give every weapon in the axe tree a bit more personal flavor, but also gives the opportunity to reward people playing well. A buff/debuff to capitalize on is a nice way to reward good play and makes it more in line with other weapons. This also changes the axe so that the longer you expose yourself to an enemy, the more dangerous you as an axe player become. This means you can ignore an axe right of the bat, but will require you to spend a CC once in a while to disconnect him from you to prevent him from runnig amok.

      Anyway, these are some changes that I thought off while playing the axe. Feel free to give any feedback.
    • Energy consumption on all two handed axe weapons should be reduced for more rotation to improve dps, fix whirlwind to make you take reduced damage and reflect damage % to make people think twice about focusing you during the very weak dps spin (which you should be able to cancel).

      Great Axes, Halberds and Carrioncallers have been in a weird place for a long time and out of MANY weapon balance changes since I started in Beta 2 nothing has changed aside from renaming "Heavy Smash" to "Deadly Chop".
    • Dimker schrieb:

      So I've been playing axes ever since launch. At this moment, axe is most definitely the weakest weapon out all of the melee weapon choices. It's short range, difficulty to stick to targets and difficulty to hit deadly chops without people dodge rolling them (cause let's be honest, none of the other W's actually are worth it). My understanding is that axes are supposed to be a high dmg weapon, and if you put pen to paper and compare numbers on dummy targets that definitely is the case. However, punching out the numbers never have been the problem regarding axes. The big issue they suffer from, unlike any other melee weapon, is that they have no way of actually sticking to their opponent. You can't outtrade mobility skills with the enemy cause they will always have either the distance, or just another movement speed skill on you. This forces axes to be very depending on allies, especially frosts. They don't do well in 1v1, they don't do well in ZvZ and they underperform in both GvG 5v5's and GvG 20v20's to any other dps.

      I have a few suggestions that could possibly shine some light on axes.

      - Give both axe Q's a new buff, called something along the lines of 'berserker's spirit' or w/e fits in with lore. For the sake of these suggestions, I'll refer to it as berserker's spirit. Berserker's spirit is a short lasting self buff that should fall off everytime you cannot connect Q's on any target for a short period of time (self buff lasts about 2.5 seconds) and that increases your movement speed by 3% and your dmg by 3% (numbers should be tweaked prob) and stacks up a certain amount of times (4-5 times maybe?).

      - Let all dmg and debuffs from axe W's and E's scale with the amount of stacks of berserker spirit you have on you. (i.e. Deadly chop deals more dmg and removes more resistances, Axe E's do increased dmg and have their secondary effect improved). I always found it odd that a curse armor reducing buff is as effective as a single target armor reduce skill like deadly chop.

      - Change weapon range accordingly with the actual reach of the weapon, like they did with spears. Halberds/carrioncallers should reach further then the one handed axe/scythe. This way you don't punish people as hard for picking a 2 handed weapon since they will be harder to reach themselves.

      - Remove adrenaline boost and battle frenzy, they don't really benefit the axe playstyle at all. I can't think of any W that really meshes well with the axe playstyle at the moment.

      - Change the Halberd E to something that actually corresponds with the Halberd. Introduce a skill called 'takedown'. Pins the enemy on the end of your pointy stick and forces him to the ground. Deals dmg corresponding with the amount of berserker buffs and stuns the target for a certain amount of seconds corresponding with the amount of berserker's spirit buffs.

      - Change the Greataxe E to legsweep. A skill that only does one sweep instead of you spinning, only strikes in a 180 degree arc in front of you, but deals far more damage and applies a lasting slow on all enemies both dmg and slow depending on berserker spirit stacks.

      I never played with the one handed axe so I'm not sure how I should or even if it should be changed.

      These changes not only give every weapon in the axe tree a bit more personal flavor, but also gives the opportunity to reward people playing well. A buff/debuff to capitalize on is a nice way to reward good play and makes it more in line with other weapons. This also changes the axe so that the longer you expose yourself to an enemy, the more dangerous you as an axe player become. This means you can ignore an axe right of the bat, but will require you to spend a CC once in a while to disconnect him from you to prevent him from runnig amok.

      Anyway, these are some changes that I thought off while playing the axe. Feel free to give any feedback.
      o Mmmm, a self buff that increases damage and movespeed, I like it. It would also encourage you to play more aggresively, which is how an axe user should be, imo. When I think of axes, I think of a blood thirsty axe fiend, seeking to just chop and cleave anything in its way. This idea is great.

      o Changing weapon range based on their length is a good idea. Would be nice to have some sort of ranged option with Axes, like the spears getting a range buff with their Q or being able to throw spears, perform rapid AoE attacks [Forest of Spears]. If they can't do this for some reason, maybe add some more axe variants such as: Dual Axes, Throwing Axes.
      o Removing adrenaline boost/battle frenzy without replacing them removes any form of build diversity. If they remove these, then at least add a slow effect to the Internal Bleeding ability, as it would synergize. Bleeding DoT that increases when target moves, plus a slow that also does the same? Yes please.
      o Honestly, haven't used Halberd much as the E isn't very appealing, and it seems like a joke of a weapon overall. Would like to see a rework here.

      o I like the suggestion regarding the Greataxe E. Being able to AoE cleave and apply a slow is more befitting of a GREATaxe than a Diablo-esque Whirlwind Barb ability. From my understanding, the E ability is supposed to be the "Ultimate" aiblity for that weapon, and right now, the only use I find for the spin is its synergy with the Bloodlust ability.
      I never played with the one handed axe so I'm not sure how I should or even if it should be changed.

      o The battleaxe [1H axe] is pretty nice for PvE scenarios, and in certain 1v1 PvP situations.
      The issue I see with it is, like all other axes, the inability to stick to targets. If you fight another melee user, and they commit to the fight; you have a greater chance of winning due to your ability to proc heals. Should they decide to run and kite you, then you're just out of luck. I suggest adding some slows to the weapon.

      o Overall, I think axes could benefit from some soft CC such as slows. Think about it, a lot of the axes have bleeding DoTs, when you're bleeding out you'd most likely move slower, right? [Obviously not with every form of bleeding, but hopefully you [in general] get the idea here.]
    • I just started playing around with a greataxe build with adrenaline rush for the speed boost and have been having fun with it so far in open world PvP. Admittedly, it doesn't have any CC but does have decent mobility if you're running omelette and leather CDR passives so your adrenaline rush, whirlwind and sprint come back quickly. Only bloodletters can easily outrun you and you're about on par with DBS and warbow mobility.

      Definitely agree that the E whirlwind skill is lackluster, but would be GREAT with two changes. First, make it so you can cancel the channel! Second, give it either CC immunity or resistance! You're a barbarian wielding a huge axe and spinning around like a madman - nothing should stop you! For example, it's so easily countered by a windwall, and since you can't cancel it once you start it you can't soldier helm or dodge roll past!

      Also agree that mana consumption is a pain for the build too - but this may be by design. Can't have it all!
    • Grimhawke-EB schrieb:

      I just started playing around with a greataxe build with adrenaline rush for the speed boost and have been having fun with it so far in open world PvP. Admittedly, it doesn't have any CC but does have decent mobility if you're running omelette and leather CDR passives so your adrenaline rush, whirlwind and sprint come back quickly. Only bloodletters can easily outrun you and you're about on par with DBS and warbow mobility.

      Definitely agree that the E whirlwind skill is lackluster, but would be GREAT with two changes. First, make it so you can cancel the channel! Second, give it either CC immunity or resistance! You're a barbarian wielding a huge axe and spinning around like a madman - nothing should stop you! For example, it's so easily countered by a windwall, and since you can't cancel it once you start it you can't soldier helm or dodge roll past!

      Also agree that mana consumption is a pain for the build too - but this may be by design. Can't have it all!
      I use this build a lot as well. The difficulties I frequently come across are getting CCed. Getting constantly slowed or rooted etc proves quite frustrating. Like you said, during the whirlwind, we should receive CC immunity or a huge tenacity boost to resist it. The mana issue is somewhat annoying too, but I think it's a semi-fair tradeoff. The trade being if you can dump your burst on them fast enough, they can be finished off with some auto attacks when you're low/OoM.
    • Carrion callers are viable and strong atm especially with the upcoming nerf to grudge, and battle axes are very powerful in a duel with the right build, however they arnt that mobile ill agree and dmg is alittle low however there healing abilities make them great for duels. clarent blade out performs alot of weapons atm in the dmg, cc / armour department everyone knows the clarent is stupidly strong no need to balance weapons around one of the top 3 most op weapons.
    • Asaroth schrieb:

      They have adrenaline boost movement speed buff /attack , best vampyric healing 1v1 melee class, carrion caller is used in gvgs and is pretty common weapon because its so strong.
      The only people who run carrion are people who are to stubborn to switch to glaive. That is literally it. I know cause I'm one of them. Everytime I face off against clarents and glaives I notice a very distinct dmg difference. It's not strong, it's not even common anymore and adrenaline boost is literally the worst skill out all 4 of them. Atleast battle frenzy gives CC immunity for it's duration. Someone did an analysis of all the weapons used and out of all the weapons axe is the least played weapon second only to arcane.
    • Greataxe E needs a dmg buff, the W abilities needs to be looked at, they are really off. Halberd is absolutely trash tier.
      Last I heard the Carrion heal de buff is bugged and does nothing - needs testing.

      New axe looks good... But I am so scared that they will mess something up with it and leave axes in the dust again.

      No changes for axes in two patches now!
    • Omx schrieb:

      Greataxe E needs a dmg buff, the W abilities needs to be looked at, they are really off. Halberd is absolutely trash tier.
      Last I heard the Carrion heal de buff is bugged and does nothing - needs testing.

      New axe looks good... But I am so scared that they will mess something up with it and leave axes in the dust again.

      No changes for axes in two patches now!
      I tested this with a holy healer, and I can confirm that the carrion caller does reduce healing. What did you test it with?