Blood letter vs Dagger Pair

    • Blood letter vs Dagger Pair

      I don't really understand the balancing concept around Blood letter vs Dagger Pair

      Blood letter has access to
      Mobility (extremely important)
      AoE (extremely important)
      Reliability (also important)

      Meanwhile Dagger Pair beats Blood letter in terms of 1 aspect....Damage.

      While Bloodletter requires you to wait for you opponents to get below 40% HP (which isn't that difficult honestly), using Dagger Pair exposes you to combat for a long time and is extremely unreliable to use because of the stack mechanics.

      I don't see how having 1.5x damage is better when the damage is unreliable, non-AoE, non instant, damage over time and requires stacks to be used.

      I don't get this balancing at all
      :(
    • TheBadOne schrieb:

      Yeah mate look everywhere, Blood Letter is OP check GvG and Black Hellgate team
      @Retroman never wanted to explain what is the purpose of the dagger tree and it just bring frustration instead of picking a better option for what they wanna do
      Bloodletter is used in gvg and black hellgates?

      No its not. It's really not. I'd like to know who uses it and meet them, no really.


      All daggers are massively gimped since their W's are all really, really bad.
    • I don't even get what they're trying to accomplish with the whole "Artifact Weapon" idea.

      Are Artifact Weapons meant to be a form of progression? A clear upgrade like Bloodletter, Clarent Blades and Carrion Caller? Like there's not a single sane person that can look at these weapons and not say: "These are so much better than any other weapon in this group, you'd be a fool to be Daggers, Swords or Axes and use anything else."

      Are they meant to be the "bring out the big expensive BFG weapon" like Wailing Bows & Brimstone Staves? Weapons that have great use in ZvZ if you're willing to risk crashing in the middle of a massive battle with a weapon that's more valuable than the collective gear of an entire ARCH warband.

      Or are they meant to be these uber-niche weapons that no one uses like Bedrock Maces, Forge Hammers, Infernal Scythes & Boltcasters? Weapons that are useless but look cool (and even that's debatable).
    • RockLobster schrieb:

      I don't even get what they're trying to accomplish with the whole "Artifact Weapon" idea.

      Are Artifact Weapons meant to be a form of progression? A clear upgrade like Bloodletter, Clarent Blades and Carrion Caller? Like there's not a single sane person that can look at these weapons and not say: "These are so much better than any other weapon in this group, you'd be a fool to be Daggers, Swords or Axes and use anything else."

      Are they meant to be the "bring out the big expensive BFG weapon" like Wailing Bows & Brimstone Staves? Weapons that have great use in ZvZ if you're willing to risk crashing in the middle of a massive battle with a weapon that's more valuable than the collective gear of an entire ARCH warband.

      Or are they meant to be these uber-niche weapons that no one uses like Bedrock Maces, Forge Hammers, Infernal Scythes & Boltcasters? Weapons that are useless but look cool (and even that's debatable).
      While I agree with your point, Infernal Scythe and Boltcasters can be used well. Infernal scythe is powerful in ZvZ, and Boltcasters have very high single target damage. (Granted you've already taken into account all the cc that can be applied to you)
    • RockLobster schrieb:

      Are Artifact Weapons meant to be a form of progression?
      There was an article in EVE Online blog (done by the developer CCP) about the navy and faction ships. (inb4 SBI releases one like that) :P

      So they are supposed to be "more utility more options - more versatility" at a higher price. At least thats how those ships work in EVE.

      I can see artifact weapons (and right now we have 2 "tiers" of artifacts ingame: the regular (rune?) and the hellgate (soul?) artifacts, 3rd tier (relic?) will be released in December according to Kay roadmap) being kind of like that. More utility and versatility - thus they are harder to get and are more expensive.

      I can also speculate (drawing parallels with EVE again) that regular artifacts are like a mix of navy/faction ships, where hellgate artifacts are like the t2 ships in eve (more specialization in weapon tree = direct progression, i.e a double bladed staff is used for CC, so Soulscyce is like CC x10), which means that the upcoming relic artifacts will be like the t3 ships in eve (even more bad ass and versatile then the previous 2 tiers).

      But what do I know?...Im just a carrot farmer ;)

      EDIT:

      found the ship role/tier relationship chart: images.gameskinny.com/gameskin…06c41248df762afc1f21d.jpg

      But I cant "finish" postulating my speculation, until I see the new relic artifacts (i only seen 1 so far...or so I think) :P - then I can fill in the blanks on AO chart similar to EVE
      DarthMagus - T8 Stone;
      Mining T8 in enemy WT solo

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 4 mal editiert, zuletzt von Captainrussia ()

    • Captainrussia schrieb:

      RockLobster schrieb:

      Are Artifact Weapons meant to be a form of progression?
      There was an article in EVE Online blog (done by the developer CCP) about the navy and faction ships. (inb4 SBI releases one like that) :P
      So they are supposed to be "more utility more options - more versatility" at a higher price. At least thats how those ships work in EVE.

      I can see artifact weapons (and right now we have 2 "tiers" of artifacts ingame: the regular (rune?) and the hellgate (soul?) artifacts, 3rd tier (relic?) will be released in December according to Kay roadmap) being kind of like that. More utility and versatility - thus they are harder to get and are more expensive.

      I can also speculate (drawing parallels with EVE again) that regular artifacts are like a mix of navy/faction ships, where hellgate artifacts are like the t2 ships in eve (more specialization in weapon tree = direct progression, i.e a double bladed staff is used for CC, so Soulscyce is like CC x10), which means that the upcoming relic artifacts will be like the t3 ships in eve (even more bad ass and versatile then the previous 2 tiers).

      But what do I know?...Im just a carrot farmer ;)

      EDIT:

      found the ship role/tier relationship chart: images.gameskinny.com/gameskin…06c41248df762afc1f21d.jpg

      But I cant "finish" postulating my speculation, until I see the new relic artifacts (i only seen 1 so far...or so I think) :P - then I can fill in the blanks on AO chart similar to EVE
      Interesting. I just don't really see the parallel in this game - in fact, I see the stark opposite for most possible sole exception of Clarent Blades which are just ridiculously overpowered in all content. I'm honestly shocked more teams aren't stacking 3 or 4 Clarent Blades and a healer and just blowing up 2-3 people on the other team instantly.

      Every other artifact weapons are anything but versatile. They are either extremely good in a niche (ala ZvZ, Open World or 5v5), decent in an extreme niche or just flat out gimmick weapons that serve little no purpose.

      antooo schrieb:

      While I agree with your point, Infernal Scythe and Boltcasters can be used well. Infernal scythe is powerful in ZvZ, and Boltcasters have very high single target damage. (Granted you've already taken into account all the cc that can be applied to you)
      I've never seen those being used seriously by anyone. (IE: Outside of an instance or an alliancemate solo fame farming for kicks)

      I'll grant you: Boltcasters look awesome and give me that Valla from Heroes of the Storm feel... but I really question the value of that E in anything outside of PvE.
    • There is nothing more rewarding than luring a group of faction ships into a trap, but since Albion is not like Eve I just hope that instanced content will post some thread so those Items will also be used in Open World/GvGs/Hellgates etc. and not only be used for non leathal Expeditions...or make those be able to 'scanned' down :) :)

      The thrill of the possibility to kill a player and receive some awesome loot is a major pillar that drives pvp in EVE.
    • Skitted schrieb:

      The thrill of the possibility to kill a player and receive some awesome loot is a major pillar that drives pvp in EVE.
      Indeed ;)

      zkillboard.com/kill/57204734/
      (Destroyed ship was worth 1 PLEX which is basically 1 month sub, or 2500 Gold in AO terms)

      zkillboard.com/kill/57949166/
      (killing a ship that outclasses you 3x solo, is fun too)


      RockLobster schrieb:

      in fact, I see the stark opposite for most possible sole exception of Clarent Blades which are just ridiculously overpowered in all content.
      One of the DEVs recently said is that they think Clarent Blade is like the only 100% (fully) balanced weapon. i.e they want to use it as a "perfect token" for balance adjustments. So Im hoping to see everything will get buffed to that level.
      DarthMagus - T8 Stone;
      Mining T8 in enemy WT solo
    • Captainrussia schrieb:

      One of the DEVs recently said is that they think Clarent Blade is like the only 100% (fully) balanced weapon. i.e they want to use it as a "perfect token" for balance adjustments. So Im hoping to see everything will get buffed to that level.
      Lol, great - just what we need. Every weapon baking in respectable mobility with CC that also does high AoE Damage and an E that hits everyone in half the screen for 30-40% of their life.

      ZvZ should be a fun time.
    • RockLobster schrieb:

      Lol, great - just what we need. Every weapon baking in respectable mobility with CC that also does high AoE Damage and an E that hits everyone in half the screen for 30-40% of their life.

      ZvZ should be a fun time.
      no, thats not what they mean. They are not going to make every weapon a clone of a Clarent blade. Just want to make it "as useful" in their own respective way of course.

      In EVE for years (maybe 4-5 years) the Minmatar race was considered the best (FOTM, of FOTY even) race with the best ships for PvP and kiting (because of...well many things, I won't get into details).

      CCP (the EVE DEVs) then did a huge balance overhaul over 2014-2015-2016 and made all the races (and their ships) pretty well balanced. I really hope SBI will do something along the same lines, but I can only dream...
      DarthMagus - T8 Stone;
      Mining T8 in enemy WT solo
    • Captainrussia schrieb:

      RockLobster schrieb:

      Lol, great - just what we need. Every weapon baking in respectable mobility with CC that also does high AoE Damage and an E that hits everyone in half the screen for 30-40% of their life.

      ZvZ should be a fun time.
      no, thats not what they mean. They are not going to make every weapon a clone of a Clarent blade. Just want to make it "as useful" in their own respective way of course.
      In EVE for years (maybe 4-5 years) the Minmatar race was considered the best (FOTM, of FOTY even) race with the best ships for PvP and kiting (because of...well many things, I won't get into details).

      CCP (the EVE DEVs) then did a huge balance overhaul over 2014-2015-2016 and made all the races (and their ships) pretty well balanced. I really hope SBI will do something along the same lines, but I can only dream...
      the last combat update we had was beta 1, pre artifacts.

      There are still things today that are getting nerfed because of the sheer number of broken concepts/abilities that plague balance from that rework. There were things nerfed because associated abilities were broken in concept (meditate) that didn't have nerfs reverted.

      Then they added artifacts. Oh boy..
      Larger guilds run the same scheme, recruit the masses to support the inner core of golden children. Burning out players to fuel their forum pvp. We Don't, We Won't. Huntsman Recruiting
    • SBI try to encourage an "Assassin Gameplay" with dagger.
      The thing is they also heavily encourage bruiser Meta. Even BloodLetter are runing shield now and infernal shield .

      They feat in no team composition, and i speak about dagger in general here not only for Bloodletter or dagger pair . They nerf everything that could make an assassin gameplay viable .
      Cast Time on dagger Pair (LOL), Ambush who bait your own healer because you vanish from his screen aswell, Heavy damage on pretty much all the Meta Weapon of the game with less requirement . (Ex : Clarent, Spears).
      There is litteraly no good reason to play dagger except for Ganking claws and even this, it's far to be the best ganking weapon.

      Even if they buff again the dagger pair it will never be a viable game option as long as they don't change all item designed to feat with the assassin gameplay.
      @Retroman

      Since the release there is not a single video of people making something cool in HG/GvG with daggers and all we get is a shitty skills. Every competitive Guild heavily discourage people to play dagger because of what your dev team made of it, Dagger litteraly feat nowhere, Bad in ZvZ, PvE, HG,GvG, Decent in Arena (lol). and still we have absolutely no idea if you are ok with the current version of the thing or if it's still a work in progress .

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    • I kinda like the playstyle of dagger pair (bloodletter feels much better but is more boring to me) but it's incredibly tedious to play. 15s CD and an additional 12s PRIOR that to charge up stacks. Thing that, btw, forces you to not even look sunder armor because else GL managing your stacks. So you already have an E ability that cancels one of the choices you get.

      Maybe taking out the charges would make it too hard hitting, I'd take away the cast time and do something with the rest to make it viable. Maybe make it hit harder at low charges so you actually can use it without the crazy long preparation. Or change how assassin's spirit work so you can have a bit more time to work on it.

      btw when is the next balance patch supposed to come out

      Also with dagger pair you can't even carry an offhand which is HUGE. + bloodletter even has the hit point passive bonus. WTF

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 2 mal editiert, zuletzt von Mehfisto ()