Risk vs Reward and cowardice

  • Savvah wrote:

    Fred, you have yet to make a single valuable point and we can't find you on the kill board so fuck off or make your point, coward.
    You first. All I see is barely coherent whining that people dare to use teamwork in a team game to kill you. It's less risk but also less reward per player since the loot has to be split. "There should be nothing but penalties?" Red zone is low risk enough, why do you want to turn it into yellow zone with t6 materials?
  • My point stands that you are a sock puppet coward. Also, the game should have better anti Zerg tech. This game gives heaping piles of fame for these cowardly Zerg players who hide behind zergs in game and sock puppets on the forums. Gathering fame was nerfed to hell. Gathering in the red zone gives you really shitty mats. This isn't just about me, if you expose most of these normal players to these conditions they give up on the game, the game doesn't reward the people who put in the hard work and doesn't reward skill very much when a terrible Zerg guild can just sweep the red zone and troll tunnel outlets and then run home at will or watch their backs for 15 min.
  • Savvah wrote:

    Why is it that none of you with strong opinions against my sane arguments are on the kill board and you all have such strong opinions on killing? Sure, rock, I could have done one thing better, but fuck that, I still deserve retribution these fucks don't have any skill.
    When the only person in the room that's screaming insists he's the sane one... that's usually a bad sign.

    As to your question - I keep my forum name separate from my in game name. I'm in a high-fame guild in a top 10 Alliance and I don't want the things I say to reflect upon that guild because I don't like to censer myself. Anyone who really cares enough about who I am can probably figure it out from my post history.

    If you could find me on the kill board, what exactly, would you be looking for anyway? Good fame to death ratio? Bad fame to death ratio? Lots of PvP Fame? Hardly any PvP fame? What info would you be looking to draw from it to make your own incoherent crying a stronger point?
  • ergh now now lads, dont make me seperate you.

    Both points are somewhat valid.
    Gathering is inherently an anti-social and solo activity.
    The game mechanics force solo, and material rich targets to go out where zergs are located.
    Its not like gatherers get a choice, if you want to advance beyond T5 then you just have to accept that you exist for the enjoyment of others.
    When you break it all down, a gatherer in AO exists only to make the game interesting/fun for others.
    They supply all and I mean all mats for the armor worn by the entire playerbase.
    Usually they also craft it.
    In addition they have to accept that a percentage of what they get (and isn't already skimmed by their guild) is basically not theirs at all. There is a portion of it that you can expect to have taken off you forcefully at some point. I don't like having my game time dedicated to serving others with my reward reduced.
    Gathering is a service based economy.

    PvP/Zergs are parasites.
    They derive all the rewards from taking.
    They exist because gatherers bother to supply them in the first place, but have no repurcussion for biting the hand that feeds.

    To quote a song:
    Will you bite the hand that feeds?
    Will you chew until it bleeds?
  • RockLobster wrote:

    Savvah wrote:

    Why is it that none of you with strong opinions against my sane arguments are on the kill board and you all have such strong opinions on killing? Sure, rock, I could have done one thing better, but fuck that, I still deserve retribution these fucks don't have any skill.
    When the only person in the room that's screaming insists he's the sane one... that's usually a bad sign.
    As to your question - I keep my forum name separate from my in game name. I'm in a high-fame guild in a top 10 Alliance and I don't want the things I say to reflect upon that guild because I don't like to censer myself. Anyone who really cares enough about who I am can probably figure it out from my post history.

    If you could find me on the kill board, what exactly, would you be looking for anyway? Good fame to death ratio? Bad fame to death ratio? Lots of PvP Fame? Hardly any PvP fame? What info would you be looking to draw from it to make your own incoherent crying a stronger point?
    I don't like to needlessly make enemies but it always sucks not understanding the disposition of people who do not share my own.
  • Savvah wrote:

    My point stands that you are a sock puppet coward. Also, the game should have better anti Zerg tech. This game gives heaping piles of fame for these cowardly Zerg players who hide behind zergs in game and sock puppets on the forums. Gathering fame was nerfed to hell. Gathering in the red zone gives you really shitty mats. This isn't just about me, if you expose most of these normal players to these conditions they give up on the game, the game doesn't reward the people who put in the hard work and doesn't reward skill very much when a terrible Zerg guild can just sweep the red zone and troll tunnel outlets and then run home at will or watch their backs for 15 min.
    First of all, no it doesn't. The fact that you can't be arsed to make more than a token effort to find out who I am before slinging insults doesn't make you right. Second of all, those "heaping piles of fame" a) get spread thin throughout the zerg and b) count for nothing but epeen. Of course red zone gathering is worse than black zone gathering, it's less risky. You have a nice little "this is how many people might want to kill you" indicator and you instantly know who on your screen wants you dead and who doesn't by way of the flagging system. You're not going to get black zone tier materials for that low risk; if you did why would people even bother gathering in black zones? Skill is also plenty rewarded. It's rewarded in the form of not getting killed, or killing back, depending on which side you're on. The only time I've died in the black zone gathering and non-AFK was when 4 people came after me. I led them on a merry chase for an entire zone length and honestly might have gotten away had I played a bit better.
  • Savvah wrote:

    The game doesn't truly reward hard work or skill as much as it rewards antisocial douchebag zerging.
    I don't know - I'd say it depends on what you count as "reward". To some people being a non-factor number in a 20man gang might be rewardsing, with 1% chance on some loot from another player or gatherer.

    To others - reward can be in solving puzzles, beating all the "naysayers" and crybabies, and figuring out how to beat the meta - how to actually rise above the meta and become anti-meta.

    I feel pretty rewarded below:

    Still having fun.. what am I doing wrong?

    Solo gathering in BZ, achieving pretty much any goal that I set before myself, and helping out the people I hang out with (be they in my guild, or just random people with whom I became friends over multitude of interactions)

    Savvah wrote:

    Why is it that none of you with strong opinions against my sane arguments are on the kill board and you all have such strong opinions on killing? Sure, rock, I could have done one thing better, but fuck that, I still deserve retribution these fucks don't have any skill.
    Before you ask for this - do you even know how to read the killboard?

    albiononline.com/en/killboard/player/UTqShmkFTV2IKf2fGVbJEg

    Are you going to look at only 1 number - the K/D ratio and make a faulty conclusion based on that? (because if you do - prepare to get flamed by the community some more)

    Savvah wrote:

    This game gives heaping piles of fame for these cowardly Zerg players who hide behind zergs in game and sock puppets on the forums.
    But you realize that kill fame does nothing? Nada, zilch! It doesn't level your weapons or gear or anything...its just a statistic, which can even easily be debunked when you see someone who has supposedly high kill fame, but in reality all their kills are in a zerg - you can see that that person has very limited solo PVP experience and hides behind the zerg for his kills.

    RockLobster wrote:

    If you could find me on the kill board, what exactly, would you be looking for anyway? Good fame to death ratio? Bad fame to death ratio? Lots of PvP Fame? Hardly any PvP fame? What info would you be looking to draw from it to make your own incoherent crying a stronger point?
    Exactly my point. Many people don't even know how to read the killboard...
  • Savvah wrote:

    In the real world if you knowingly screw someone over from behind and you do it in the most cowardly of ways you must spend the rest of your life watching your back. In this game you only have to watch your back for like 15 minutes.
    Hunting

    War and Hunting

    These links are some ideas I thought up because i was thinking of how to get back at cowards for ganking. The reality is in T4,0 I can kill a 6.1 ARCH member pretty easily. didnt even use all my skill. I logged in and they invited me to a duel the second i got on didnt even know what i was wearing or he was wearing. I won easily. even with a rematch i never used all my skills even.

    Implementing these ideas will allow for players to have the tools to fix the issues. Rather than using the system to punish them for us.
    Think of it as a Western Movie. in the open plains of the west the bandits can run the town until a sheriff comes in and hunts them down. This will allow for players to hunt those who are criminals, or have wrong them personally, or have wronged their guild/alliance.
  • Savvah wrote:

    Elarahis wrote:

    Zerging in the red zone yields little reward. Low risk low reward. Gathering yields much better reward but there is more risk. That is what risk versus reward means.
    Very untrue. You get these PK zergs sweeping red zones. They herd players in with poison and cc and they often make good bank doing so. Gathering in the red zone only helps you level up gathering, there is very little reward. The Zerg population whined and there is almost no enchanted in red zone and not anything above t6.
    Have you tried ganging? I have. Even in a small 3 or 4 player group it is a huge waste of time in terms of gold per hour. We kill 90% of the targets we see and still the silverwe end up making is much lower than gathering. If you have to share the loot between 10 players you virtually make no money at all. I did some zerging ganging in the BZ and it is the same, unless you are the lucky guy who occasionally get a direwolf or a high tier item you make almost 0 profit.

    Ganking is something you do for fun, not for profit.
  • Savvah wrote:

    In the real world if you knowingly screw someone over from behind and you do it in the most cowardly of ways you must spend the rest of your life watching your back. In this game you only have to watch your back for like 15 minutes.
    In the real world if youre dead you stay dead. Stop trying to compare a game with real life ... they arent the same thing and comparisons are asinine.
    Midgard
    T8 Fibre, Ore, Hide, Wood & Stone Gatherer
    T8 Gathering Gear Crafter
    T8 Bags & Capes Crafter
  • Midgard wrote:

    Savvah wrote:

    In the real world if you knowingly screw someone over from behind and you do it in the most cowardly of ways you must spend the rest of your life watching your back. In this game you only have to watch your back for like 15 minutes.
    In the real world if youre dead you stay dead. Stop trying to compare a game with real life ... they arent the same thing and comparisons are asinine.
    I think I used the term screw someone over, and parenthetically in a cowardly way (zvp)
  • Elarahis wrote:

    Savvah wrote:

    Elarahis wrote:

    Zerging in the red zone yields little reward. Low risk low reward. Gathering yields much better reward but there is more risk. That is what risk versus reward means.
    Very untrue. You get these PK zergs sweeping red zones. They herd players in with poison and cc and they often make good bank doing so. Gathering in the red zone only helps you level up gathering, there is very little reward. The Zerg population whined and there is almost no enchanted in red zone and not anything above t6.
    Have you tried ganging? I have. Even in a small 3 or 4 player group it is a huge waste of time in terms of gold per hour. We kill 90% of the targets we see and still the silverwe end up making is much lower than gathering. If you have to share the loot between 10 players you virtually make no money at all. I did some zerging ganging in the BZ and it is the same, unless you are the lucky guy who occasionally get a direwolf or a high tier item you make almost 0 profit.
    Ganking is something you do for fun, not for profit.
    I have killed hostiles on many occasions and if the vast majority of these pks were not using 4.0/4.1 it would have been quite profitable.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Savvah ().

  • Savvah wrote:

    Kissmequick wrote:

    If it wasn't so insanely difficult to kill a gatherer (who isn't farming hide and already on 50% HP), maybe people would go solo. But it is, so they won't.
    Two good PK's can take down a gatherer. PK's travel solo all the time. Any group that uses 6+ people to gank in the red zone sucks as players and I would argue sucks as human beings as well.
    Thanks for stating the obvious. I am telling you why most people don't go solo. Not duo, not 6, solo.

    Why? Because an ox stacks armour and cc res with your character and a gatherer has gathering gear with ridiculous escapes. 5.1 claws with 60 spec deal 19 damage to master ox. Solo PK can blow all skills and use half energy and ox still has 2/3 HP. That is why they group up.