Risk vs Reward and cowardice

  • Risk vs Reward and cowardice

    This game rewards cowardly acts too much. There should be nothing but penalties for some shitty PK Zerg hunting gatherers in the red zone. Zero loot and total rep death. If the gatherer loses everything so should the shitty red zone PK Zerg. Pks should travel solo or in small groups, the key metric should be how cowardly is the act, did they pick a fair fight or go after a single target. Item trashing doesn't go far enough, these cowards should get their rep destroyed for cowardly PK acts and reward the real pks that rely on skill.

    Skill vs reward and risk vs reward and at some point courage vs reward should be considered. There is nothing fun or interesting or rewarding about red zone PK zerging. Why let these shitty players feel they have accomplished anything? My great grandma could do what they do.
  • We as players have as much ability to punish this behavior as well.

    My alliance is at war with ARCH because of this behavior and some other reasons partly because why not.

    if we end this war we will move to the next major group that does this.
    Specifically we picked certain numbers they use, and how they go about the 'fight' ect.
  • blappo wrote:

    We as players have as much ability to punish this behavior as well.

    My alliance is at war with ARCH because of this behavior and some other reasons partly because why not.

    if we end this war we will move to the next major group that does this.
    Specifically we picked certain numbers they use, and how they go about the 'fight' ect.
    And this has been the opinion of the Devs from the start that the idea is to have the playerbase regulate the game, such as the market and repurcussions for being a douchebag. The rep system I don't feel goes far enough in depth, I think they could do a lot more with it, and in addition make some interesting content limited to "alignments" if you want to put the rep scale in that sense. However small guilds, and solo gatherers don't have the option of collective retribution that large guilds do.

    Having said that, I agree with the OP in that being spanked by large groups both sucks, and gives you no chance of survival. I think, personally, that it is badly designed when you simply take your hands off your keyboard and wait to die because basically anything else is futile.

    This has always been a problem and they put in lots of new gear etc for gatherers. But you are still right that an hour of "hard work" riding around finding nodes, tapping the node, watching your back and finally after 3 days finding that 1 node of 6.3 thats actually a full node for once and you get jumped by a 10 man zerg on the way home, this is pathetic gameplay. I often make the comparison with eve, knowing that many devs come from this background - in eve as long as you are careful, you can generally avoid dying with a cargo load of good stuff. In AO you are funneled through bottleneck entrances and forced to have contact with zergs, there is no avoidance mechanic really for gatherers/haulers in AO.

    All of this is why I stopped gathering. I kind of wish I hadn't (because it did save and make me a lot of silver) but at the same time I spend more time doing parts of the game I enjoy rather than riding in circles and being killed all alone by large groups. I think it is unfortunate that the best solution to many of the problems in the game seems to be to not do those activites.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Snorri ().

  • U do understand that this is a sandbox game, right? And also in turn there are way more blue zergs hunting SINGLE pks then that there are pk zergs running around killing gatherers. My theory u got ganked, your friends got ganked and u made this post cuz u lost your 4.1 :). now stop crying on the forums and donate me more gear!!!!
  • wolfo70 wrote:

    U do understand that this is a sandbox game, right? And also in turn there are way more blue zergs hunting SINGLE pks then that there are pk zergs running around killing gatherers. My theory u got ganked, your friends got ganked and u made this post cuz u lost your 4.1 :). now stop crying on the forums and donate me more gear!!!!
    You do understand that your post is a trollpost, right?
  • Savvah wrote:

    Pks should travel solo or in small groups, the key metric should be how cowardly is the act, did they pick a fair fight or go after a single target.
    yeah but real life isn't fair - so why should a Sandbox game driven by Real Life decisions (players) be fair? Not trolling - this is a philosophical question.

    Savvah wrote:

    Skill vs reward and risk vs reward and at some point courage vs reward should be considered.
    Yeah but you didnt go to the Black Zones, (by your account of this story) - so not much courage, not much reward? If you do/did gather in BZ - then we can talk about courage...and higher rewards.

    Red Zone provides moderate level of risk, moderate rewards, and requires moderate "courage" to get into. Its like the absolute middle. Much lower risk and lower reward then BZ.

    Savvah wrote:

    Why let these shitty players feel they have accomplished anything?
    Exactly - why? Don't then. Don't let them kill you! Just watch the number in your lower right = problem solved? Depending on your build - anything below 2 reds - you should not worry bout. Anything above 2 - well either leave the zone, or keep gathering but more cautiously (really it all depends on your escape build = your ability to "play the meta" = your skill)

    Savvah wrote:

    IMO a game that rewards skill and hard work more and zerging less will do much more for the game's population in the long run.
    Well I do agree here....but real people play the game, and humans are a) social (mostly) b) will chose the path of least resistance, that being strength in numbers. This has been proven historically. So its kind of hard to balance for that.

    Plus skilled solo players are reaping great rewards in this game already (both in PvP and in gathering) - so your request is already fulfilled somewhat.

    Savvah wrote:

    In the real world if you knowingly screw someone over from behind and you do it in the most cowardly of ways you must spend the rest of your life watching your back.
    I wish it always worked this way. It does sometimes, sometimes it does not :( (greatly depends on the society/culture/country you live in)

    Snorri wrote:

    I often make the comparison with eve, knowing that many devs come from this background - in eve as long as you are careful, you can generally avoid dying with a cargo load of good stuff. In AO you are funneled through bottleneck entrances and forced to have contact with zergs, there is no avoidance mechanic really for gatherers/haulers in AO.
    No no no! LoL. In Eve - I'd say you have a 90% chance to avoid dying with cargo if you use a scout through the dangerous (low/null sec) zones.
    However, If you don't use a scout, and just solo hauling - you have 90% chance of dying in those zones...

    I think its much easier in AO (compared to Eve) with an escort or scounts. Its also easier solo in AO then solo hauling in EvE. I used to run some solo Oxes (which was highly NOT recommended) from the BZs to Carleon.

    I do agree that there is no avoidance in AO for haulers (Oxen) but there are plenty of avoidance mechanics for gatherers.

    Snorri wrote:

    I think it is unfortunate that the best solution to many of the problems in the game seems to be to not do those activites.
    I disagree. The best solution is to "git gud", but really - its to just try and think outside the box and try to adapt. Maybe do some research on whatever mechanic you are trying to over come - and then try it out. I mean - just like in real life kind of. If you just talk theory all day - you'll never make it off your couch. You need to go out there and actually try stuff and experiment.

    I haven't been faced with a single mechanic yet where I put my hands down and said "Ok, thats it! Game is broken, nothing I can do here! I give up!"

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Captainrussia ().

  • Captainrussia wrote:

    Savvah wrote:

    Pks should travel solo or in small groups, the key metric should be how cowardly is the act, did they pick a fair fight or go after a single target.
    1. yeah but real life isn't fair - so why should a Sandbox game driven by Real Life decisions (players) be fair? Not trolling - this is a philosophical question.

    Savvah wrote:

    In the real world if you knowingly screw someone over from behind and you do it in the most cowardly of ways you must spend the rest of your life watching your back.
    2. I wish it always worked this way. It does sometimes, sometimes it does not :( (greatly depends on the society/culture/country you live in)

    Snorri wrote:

    I often make the comparison with eve, knowing that many devs come from this background - in eve as long as you are careful, you can generally avoid dying with a cargo load of good stuff. In AO you are funneled through bottleneck entrances and forced to have contact with zergs, there is no avoidance mechanic really for gatherers/haulers in AO.
    3. No no no! LoL. In Eve - I'd say you have a 90% chance to avoid dying with cargo if you use a scout through the dangerous (low/null sec) zones.However, If you don't use a scout, and just solo hauling - you have 90% chance of dying in those zones...

    I think its much easier in AO (compared to Eve) with an escort or scounts. Its also easier solo in AO then solo hauling in EvE. I used to run some solo Oxes (which was highly NOT recommended) from the BZs to Carleon.

    I do agree that there is no avoidance in AO for haulers (Oxen) but there are plenty of avoidance mechanics for gatherers.
    I numbered your responses to make it easier to respond.
    1. and 2. - Real life may not be fair, but there are régulations, and laws in place. The laws in place will punish you (assuming you are caught) when you break those laws, and in addition there are systems in place dedicated to finding you when you break the law and bringing you to justice. So saying real life is a sandbox is not accurate. People can make any decision they want, but all decisions have consequences.

    3. Well this is not accurate. I can stop well short of a gate and use my onboard scanners to check for gate camps. I can see when ANYONE enters the system, I can flag those people if I want to or I may see an indicator based on their corp (if we are at war for example) basically I can set "standings" with those groups and make informed décisions based on who is in my local. I can take a cloak which makes me all but impossible to find and offers minimal protection when going through gate camps, but as long as there is no bubble I can get through cloaked and getting away might be eniterly another issue when I get thru the gate. If you are solo hauling, you use a black ops hauler, or a hauler that can jump multiple places at once and you can plan your Journey and be going to pre-planned "safe" (maybe) points.

    Your odds even as a noob pilot in eve are pretty good if you are cautious. In AO your odds are low on survival if you venture into black or red, I mean even if you are wearing T3 people will kill you because they are so damn bloodthirsty they will kill anything that moves. In addition in eve you might get webbed/stabbed and held to ransom rather than just blown up. Often there is some time for parlay, rather than just kill anything that moves and if it doesn't move bump it, then kill it - which is the mentality in AO.

    It's hard to use EvE as an analogy vs AO because there are so many nuances its like trying to compare WoW to UO. There are no real avoidance mechanics for gatherers. There are some "better" (than previously) escape mechanics but escape is reactionary, avoidance is pro-active.
  • I think you are captain straw man argument. I think you are captain sock puppet. Don't comment on my courage when you don't know me, especially from behind a sock puppet. I am not afraid of the black zone and I don't hide behind a big Zerg like most people who play this game.

    For the record and your straw man argument: I also do not like the games poor relationship management / feud tracking combined with a shoot now ask questions later mentality.

    The game is not risk vs reward balanced because the Zerg life is easier than the player life. If a player flags up and kills me, especially like this big group did yesterday, they should not receive a reward, or if they do I should have some way to get even.

    The problem with this game is that it consistently rewards antisocial behavior and almost never rewards prosocial behavior.

    If I kill someone I should have to watch my back. Especially if it required having 6 + plus players wearing high tiered gear and all using poison in a red zone. You people know why the black zone is empty and soon the red zone will soon be empty when the game rewards cowards like this and punishes gatherers who go days without ever seeing anything above a .1 mat.

    The game doesn't truly reward hard work or skill as much as it rewards antisocial douchebag zerging.
  • Elarahis wrote:

    Zerging in the red zone yields little reward. Low risk low reward. Gathering yields much better reward but there is more risk. That is what risk versus reward means.
    Very untrue. You get these PK zergs sweeping red zones. They herd players in with poison and cc and they often make good bank doing so. Gathering in the red zone only helps you level up gathering, there is very little reward. The Zerg population whined and there is almost no enchanted in red zone and not anything above t6.
  • Savvah wrote:

    This game rewards cowardly acts too much. There should be nothing but penalties for some shitty PK Zerg hunting gatherers in the red zone. Zero loot and total rep death. If the gatherer loses everything so should the shitty red zone PK Zerg. Pks should travel solo or in small groups, the key metric should be how cowardly is the act, did they pick a fair fight or go after a single target. Item trashing doesn't go far enough, these cowards should get their rep destroyed for cowardly PK acts and reward the real pks that rely on skill.

    Skill vs reward and risk vs reward and at some point courage vs reward should be considered. There is nothing fun or interesting or rewarding about red zone PK zerging. Why let these shitty players feel they have accomplished anything? My great grandma could do what they do.
    We get it. You got ganked. You didn't deserve it. PvP happened in a PvP zone... and someone needs to pay.

    Chin up kiddo. Less time ranting in a place that'll only get you mocked. Shadowplay every time you get ganked. Review it. Odds are you did no less than 4 different things wrong to the point where you might as well have just opened trade with your gankers and given them everything. Save everyone the trouble.

    Eventually, you get ganked less and when you do, you know exactly what happened. Last time I got ganked, i knew I deserved it because of how lazy I'd gotten. I just told them "good kill. Caught me sleeping"

    Stop crying, dry your eyes and recoup. Or don't and quit. Game isn't for everyone.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by RockLobster ().