A modest proposal to fix red zones.

  • Ulfnaor wrote:

    Hi SBI,

    Red Zones were supposed to be dangerous areas where people would progress from the Blue-Yellow zones of "low risk, low rewards" to more "higher risk, higher reward". Sort of the real stepping stone to the chaos of black zones, a place where smaller groups and solo-duo players could find PvP without getting zerged constantly. As it stands, however, red zones' resources are mined on cooldown (at least, around Caerleon), there's gatherers running around on oxes, I almost never see any hostile (unless they're 5 and about to start a HG) and whenever there's a few hostiles, a blue zerg spawns to kill them. Now, I don't mind the latter per se, I just think some changes need to be made to bring back a sense of real danger to red zones. Imo, the issue is three-fold.

    1)The reputation system needs to be revamped. As it stands, people who flag lose way too much reputation per kill. Lower that down to more reasonable numbers and allow flagged players to roam the red zones once more.

    2)People who attack flagged players should become "Temporarily Flagged". If you don't know what TF is, go near a HG or inside a territory in red zones. My experience in red zones has been that as soon as a few brave souls flag up and rack up a kill, they get zerged by an ever expanding pug group who risks little, most of them split across 3-4 groups. Flagging them in return would force them to face a bit of risk.

    3)People who loot bodies should become Temporarily Flagged. I never thought I'd see that, but there's tons of players in the red zones around Caerleon who just go around following zergs following a few flagged guys and rush to loot bodies. Imo, doing so should flag you temporarily.

    Pretty simple, truly. Just a few basic changes to encourage more PvP, discourage riskless zerging and bring some danger back to red zones.
    1) As a gather/crafter playing mostly solo. The reputation lost needs to be higher against Glorious target. I'm being killed everyday without hesitation in Red Zone to the point that I am beginning to tired of the game.
    2)Good thing if its the case. But i never see that personnally.
    3) Dont' care;none issue
    There is more then enough PvP going on. It's time to give some love to the crafter and gatherer. It's bandit and rogue can go to black zone were they are supposed to be. Red Zone is bloody murder and they should be a bigger deal.
  • Ok so there are 2 sides to every arguement I see 1 side wants to gather and gets attacked
    the other side wants to fight and it turns out bad alot of the time.

    Gatherers, if players dont lose their gear your job is pointless with no one buying new stuff
    Gankers, If you use massive numbers to kill people those people had no chance to fight you
    This is where gatherers get bored of the game
    If the fight is unfair its probably because you are too scared to use fair numbers.
    Now to be clear a 2v1 is a fair fight in my books but getting past 3 how could i be able to fight all of them.
  • blappo wrote:

    Ok so there are 2 sides to every arguement I see 1 side wants to gather and gets attacked
    the other side wants to fight and it turns out bad alot of the time.

    Gatherers, if players dont lose their gear your job is pointless with no one buying new stuff
    Gankers, If you use massive numbers to kill people those people had no chance to fight you
    This is where gatherers get bored of the game
    If the fight is unfair its probably because you are too scared to use fair numbers.
    Now to be clear a 2v1 is a fair fight in my books but getting past 3 how could i be able to fight all of them.
    2 ganker vs 1 gatherer in crafting gear that either a) Get overloaded if their don't have their mount near b) get dismounted and are dead before the cooldown to get access the spell finishses. That is a fair fight to you?
  • Moonshivers wrote:

    blappo wrote:

    Ok so there are 2 sides to every arguement I see 1 side wants to gather and gets attacked
    the other side wants to fight and it turns out bad alot of the time.

    Gatherers, if players dont lose their gear your job is pointless with no one buying new stuff
    Gankers, If you use massive numbers to kill people those people had no chance to fight you
    This is where gatherers get bored of the game
    If the fight is unfair its probably because you are too scared to use fair numbers.
    Now to be clear a 2v1 is a fair fight in my books but getting past 3 how could i be able to fight all of them.
    are dead before the cooldown to get access the spell finishses.
    Read joseph patch about the dismount cd on skills ^,^
    goo.gl/xPMhXU
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    HGguidance https://bit.ly/2Ymu1gs
  • Moonshivers wrote:

    blappo wrote:

    Ok so there are 2 sides to every arguement I see 1 side wants to gather and gets attacked
    the other side wants to fight and it turns out bad alot of the time.

    Gatherers, if players dont lose their gear your job is pointless with no one buying new stuff
    Gankers, If you use massive numbers to kill people those people had no chance to fight you
    This is where gatherers get bored of the game
    If the fight is unfair its probably because you are too scared to use fair numbers.
    Now to be clear a 2v1 is a fair fight in my books but getting past 3 how could i be able to fight all of them.
    2 ganker vs 1 gatherer in crafting gear that either a) Get overloaded if their don't have their mount near b) get dismounted and are dead before the cooldown to get access the spell finishses. That is a fair fight to you?
    Yes i dont gather in gathering gear for this reason. I have won 2v1 fights because they bring T4 flat and assume i have gathering gear. when I fight with T5.2 combat gear, with an armored horse they blow all their spells dismounting me i then have 1 sec CD because of combat dismount and they have either low mana or everything on CD from dismount. horses are a 800 hp high resistance shield in these scenarios.
  • blappo wrote:

    Moonshivers wrote:

    blappo wrote:

    Ok so there are 2 sides to every arguement I see 1 side wants to gather and gets attacked
    the other side wants to fight and it turns out bad alot of the time.

    Gatherers, if players dont lose their gear your job is pointless with no one buying new stuff
    Gankers, If you use massive numbers to kill people those people had no chance to fight you
    This is where gatherers get bored of the game
    If the fight is unfair its probably because you are too scared to use fair numbers.
    Now to be clear a 2v1 is a fair fight in my books but getting past 3 how could i be able to fight all of them.
    2 ganker vs 1 gatherer in crafting gear that either a) Get overloaded if their don't have their mount near b) get dismounted and are dead before the cooldown to get access the spell finishses. That is a fair fight to you?
    Yes i dont gather in gathering gear for this reason. I have won 2v1 fights because they bring T4 flat and assume i have gathering gear. when I fight with T5.2 combat gear, with an armored horse they blow all their spells dismounting me i then have 1 sec CD because of combat dismount and they have either low mana or everything on CD from dismount. horses are a 800 hp high resistance shield in these scenarios.
    Have? or will have? I though this was on sept 27 and not implemented yet...
    goo.gl/xPMhXU
    goo.gl/GK4CMs
    Random dungeon https://bit.ly/2L5TxnS
    Outnumber https://bit.ly/2YEU56n
    Arena https://bit.ly/2ZKD3or
    Hudini: https://bit.ly/2XTonBI
    HGguidance https://bit.ly/2Ymu1gs
  • Why should I get flagged for attaking a criminal ?? They deserve to die. PKs are low life skum and probably IRL not good people. There the kind of people you meet at a bar and want to punch in the mouth. Most PKs double as griefers thinking up any sleazy and a tricky way to con players. I don't endorse helping theses people kill good citizens in the red zones. I think a better idea is to have a alert system so you get a message when someone has been murdered in a red zone so we can get more blues there faster to take out the criminal
  • Finalhecate wrote:

    blappo wrote:

    Moonshivers wrote:

    blappo wrote:

    Ok so there are 2 sides to every arguement I see 1 side wants to gather and gets attacked
    the other side wants to fight and it turns out bad alot of the time.

    Gatherers, if players dont lose their gear your job is pointless with no one buying new stuff
    Gankers, If you use massive numbers to kill people those people had no chance to fight you
    This is where gatherers get bored of the game
    If the fight is unfair its probably because you are too scared to use fair numbers.
    Now to be clear a 2v1 is a fair fight in my books but getting past 3 how could i be able to fight all of them.
    2 ganker vs 1 gatherer in crafting gear that either a) Get overloaded if their don't have their mount near b) get dismounted and are dead before the cooldown to get access the spell finishses. That is a fair fight to you?
    Yes i dont gather in gathering gear for this reason. I have won 2v1 fights because they bring T4 flat and assume i have gathering gear. when I fight with T5.2 combat gear, with an armored horse they blow all their spells dismounting me i then have 1 sec CD because of combat dismount and they have either low mana or everything on CD from dismount. horses are a 800 hp high resistance shield in these scenarios.
    Have? or will have? I though this was on sept 27 and not implemented yet...
    I thought this was hotfixed in... i got dismounted recently and had very low CD
  • blappo wrote:

    Finalhecate wrote:

    blappo wrote:

    Moonshivers wrote:

    blappo wrote:

    Ok so there are 2 sides to every arguement I see 1 side wants to gather and gets attacked
    the other side wants to fight and it turns out bad alot of the time.

    Gatherers, if players dont lose their gear your job is pointless with no one buying new stuff
    Gankers, If you use massive numbers to kill people those people had no chance to fight you
    This is where gatherers get bored of the game
    If the fight is unfair its probably because you are too scared to use fair numbers.
    Now to be clear a 2v1 is a fair fight in my books but getting past 3 how could i be able to fight all of them.
    2 ganker vs 1 gatherer in crafting gear that either a) Get overloaded if their don't have their mount near b) get dismounted and are dead before the cooldown to get access the spell finishses. That is a fair fight to you?
    Yes i dont gather in gathering gear for this reason. I have won 2v1 fights because they bring T4 flat and assume i have gathering gear. when I fight with T5.2 combat gear, with an armored horse they blow all their spells dismounting me i then have 1 sec CD because of combat dismount and they have either low mana or everything on CD from dismount. horses are a 800 hp high resistance shield in these scenarios.
    Have? or will have? I though this was on sept 27 and not implemented yet...
    I thought this was hotfixed in... i got dismounted recently and had very low CD
    gonna have to check this as reddit may give false info
    goo.gl/xPMhXU
    goo.gl/GK4CMs
    Random dungeon https://bit.ly/2L5TxnS
    Outnumber https://bit.ly/2YEU56n
    Arena https://bit.ly/2ZKD3or
    Hudini: https://bit.ly/2XTonBI
    HGguidance https://bit.ly/2Ymu1gs
  • blappo wrote:

    Finalhecate wrote:

    blappo wrote:

    Moonshivers wrote:

    blappo wrote:

    Ok so there are 2 sides to every arguement I see 1 side wants to gather and gets attacked
    the other side wants to fight and it turns out bad alot of the time.

    Gatherers, if players dont lose their gear your job is pointless with no one buying new stuff
    Gankers, If you use massive numbers to kill people those people had no chance to fight you
    This is where gatherers get bored of the game
    If the fight is unfair its probably because you are too scared to use fair numbers.
    Now to be clear a 2v1 is a fair fight in my books but getting past 3 how could i be able to fight all of them.
    2 ganker vs 1 gatherer in crafting gear that either a) Get overloaded if their don't have their mount near b) get dismounted and are dead before the cooldown to get access the spell finishses. That is a fair fight to you?
    Yes i dont gather in gathering gear for this reason. I have won 2v1 fights because they bring T4 flat and assume i have gathering gear. when I fight with T5.2 combat gear, with an armored horse they blow all their spells dismounting me i then have 1 sec CD because of combat dismount and they have either low mana or everything on CD from dismount. horses are a 800 hp high resistance shield in these scenarios.
    Have? or will have? I though this was on sept 27 and not implemented yet...
    I thought this was hotfixed in... i got dismounted recently and had very low CD


    [20.09.17] Testserver Patch Notes - Joseph Update

    is this alive? ctrl F and type Mount or dismount and it will take you to the part.. so um..?
    goo.gl/xPMhXU
    goo.gl/GK4CMs
    Random dungeon https://bit.ly/2L5TxnS
    Outnumber https://bit.ly/2YEU56n
    Arena https://bit.ly/2ZKD3or
    Hudini: https://bit.ly/2XTonBI
    HGguidance https://bit.ly/2Ymu1gs
  • blappo wrote:

    Moonshivers wrote:

    blappo wrote:

    Ok so there are 2 sides to every arguement I see 1 side wants to gather and gets attacked
    the other side wants to fight and it turns out bad alot of the time.

    Gatherers, if players dont lose their gear your job is pointless with no one buying new stuff
    Gankers, If you use massive numbers to kill people those people had no chance to fight you
    This is where gatherers get bored of the game
    If the fight is unfair its probably because you are too scared to use fair numbers.
    Now to be clear a 2v1 is a fair fight in my books but getting past 3 how could i be able to fight all of them.
    2 ganker vs 1 gatherer in crafting gear that either a) Get overloaded if their don't have their mount near b) get dismounted and are dead before the cooldown to get access the spell finishses. That is a fair fight to you?
    Yes i dont gather in gathering gear for this reason. I have won 2v1 fights because they bring T4 flat and assume i have gathering gear. when I fight with T5.2 combat gear, with an armored horse they blow all their spells dismounting me i then have 1 sec CD because of combat dismount and they have either low mana or everything on CD from dismount. horses are a 800 hp high resistance shield in these scenarios.
    So basically you are telling me that you can't play as a dedicated gatherer/crafter but have to gather stuff with PvP gear... Don't you see the problem? You're saying a complete part of the game must be abandon becauseit's non viable which is exactly what we are saying as well. Your solution is 'forget it about that part of the game' where we say fix it to make it viable. As long as I am overloaded and have no mobility without a mount nearby the combat can't be fair.
  • Moonshivers wrote:

    blappo wrote:

    Moonshivers wrote:

    blappo wrote:

    Ok so there are 2 sides to every arguement I see 1 side wants to gather and gets attacked
    the other side wants to fight and it turns out bad alot of the time.

    Gatherers, if players dont lose their gear your job is pointless with no one buying new stuff
    Gankers, If you use massive numbers to kill people those people had no chance to fight you
    This is where gatherers get bored of the game
    If the fight is unfair its probably because you are too scared to use fair numbers.
    Now to be clear a 2v1 is a fair fight in my books but getting past 3 how could i be able to fight all of them.
    2 ganker vs 1 gatherer in crafting gear that either a) Get overloaded if their don't have their mount near b) get dismounted and are dead before the cooldown to get access the spell finishses. That is a fair fight to you?
    Yes i dont gather in gathering gear for this reason. I have won 2v1 fights because they bring T4 flat and assume i have gathering gear. when I fight with T5.2 combat gear, with an armored horse they blow all their spells dismounting me i then have 1 sec CD because of combat dismount and they have either low mana or everything on CD from dismount. horses are a 800 hp high resistance shield in these scenarios.
    So basically you are telling me that you can't play as a dedicated gatherer/crafter but have to gather stuff with PvP gear... Don't you see the problem? You're saying a complete part of the game must be abandon becauseit's non viable which is exactly what we are saying as well. Your solution is 'forget it about that part of the game' where we say fix it to make it viable. As long as I am overloaded and have no mobility without a mount nearby the combat can't be fair.
    No it is viable... but you need to hire mercenaries for protection.

    The reason this doesnt work is that people dont charge enough for mats
    if people added in time and risk involved getting mats they would go up in steeper steps than they do
    This margin would allow for safety purchases..
    Though i wish there were some contract system put into the game for this type of play.
  • blappo wrote:

    Moonshivers wrote:

    blappo wrote:

    Moonshivers wrote:

    blappo wrote:

    Ok so there are 2 sides to every arguement I see 1 side wants to gather and gets attacked
    the other side wants to fight and it turns out bad alot of the time.

    Gatherers, if players dont lose their gear your job is pointless with no one buying new stuff
    Gankers, If you use massive numbers to kill people those people had no chance to fight you
    This is where gatherers get bored of the game
    If the fight is unfair its probably because you are too scared to use fair numbers.
    Now to be clear a 2v1 is a fair fight in my books but getting past 3 how could i be able to fight all of them.
    2 ganker vs 1 gatherer in crafting gear that either a) Get overloaded if their don't have their mount near b) get dismounted and are dead before the cooldown to get access the spell finishses. That is a fair fight to you?
    Yes i dont gather in gathering gear for this reason. I have won 2v1 fights because they bring T4 flat and assume i have gathering gear. when I fight with T5.2 combat gear, with an armored horse they blow all their spells dismounting me i then have 1 sec CD because of combat dismount and they have either low mana or everything on CD from dismount. horses are a 800 hp high resistance shield in these scenarios.
    So basically you are telling me that you can't play as a dedicated gatherer/crafter but have to gather stuff with PvP gear... Don't you see the problem? You're saying a complete part of the game must be abandon becauseit's non viable which is exactly what we are saying as well. Your solution is 'forget it about that part of the game' where we say fix it to make it viable. As long as I am overloaded and have no mobility without a mount nearby the combat can't be fair.
    No it is viable... but you need to hire mercenaries for protection.
    The reason this doesnt work is that people dont charge enough for mats
    if people added in time and risk involved getting mats they would go up in steeper steps than they do
    This margin would allow for safety purchases..
    Though i wish there were some contract system put into the game for this type of play.
    Merc Us Discord XD
    goo.gl/xPMhXU
    goo.gl/GK4CMs
    Random dungeon https://bit.ly/2L5TxnS
    Outnumber https://bit.ly/2YEU56n
    Arena https://bit.ly/2ZKD3or
    Hudini: https://bit.ly/2XTonBI
    HGguidance https://bit.ly/2Ymu1gs
  • Moonshivers wrote:

    Your solution is 'forget it about that part of the game' where we say fix it to make it viable. As long as I am overloaded and have no mobility without a mount nearby the combat can't be fair.
    If you're alone and/or need to flee or fight when encountering PK, you should never ever be overloaded. Being overloaded is asking for death. It's like the basics of basics of Gatherer101.
  • UnGarsQuiBricole wrote:

    Moonshivers wrote:

    Your solution is 'forget it about that part of the game' where we say fix it to make it viable. As long as I am overloaded and have no mobility without a mount nearby the combat can't be fair.
    If you're alone and/or need to flee or fight when encountering PK, you should never ever be overloaded. Being overloaded is asking for death. It's like the basics of basics of Gatherer101.
    blue yellow overload, red black at 100% or 99% only [from armor horse] [basically walking free weight]

    the problem is these people don't like the multiple travel even though it is the way of the game ^,^
    goo.gl/xPMhXU
    goo.gl/GK4CMs
    Random dungeon https://bit.ly/2L5TxnS
    Outnumber https://bit.ly/2YEU56n
    Arena https://bit.ly/2ZKD3or
    Hudini: https://bit.ly/2XTonBI
    HGguidance https://bit.ly/2Ymu1gs
  • UnGarsQuiBricole wrote:

    Moonshivers wrote:

    Your solution is 'forget it about that part of the game' where we say fix it to make it viable. As long as I am overloaded and have no mobility without a mount nearby the combat can't be fair.
    If you're alone and/or need to flee or fight when encountering PK, you should never ever be overloaded. Being overloaded is asking for death. It's like the basics of basics of Gatherer101.
    So you go out run 2 or 3 zone on a horse then dismount enter the red zone and take a stack or 2 of resources and run back? Then it's not viable, so same thing lol!! You never gatherer obviously and yet felt it was important to voice your opinion on the matter... Thanks but it's worthless
  • Finalhecate wrote:

    UnGarsQuiBricole wrote:

    Moonshivers wrote:

    Your solution is 'forget it about that part of the game' where we say fix it to make it viable. As long as I am overloaded and have no mobility without a mount nearby the combat can't be fair.
    If you're alone and/or need to flee or fight when encountering PK, you should never ever be overloaded. Being overloaded is asking for death. It's like the basics of basics of Gatherer101.
    blue yellow overload, red black at 100% or 99% only [from armor horse] [basically walking free weight]
    the problem is these people don't like the multiple travel even though it is the way of the game ^,^
    Please read carefully before writing idiotic response. Overloaded WITHOUT the horse.
  • Moonshivers wrote:

    UnGarsQuiBricole wrote:

    Moonshivers wrote:

    Your solution is 'forget it about that part of the game' where we say fix it to make it viable. As long as I am overloaded and have no mobility without a mount nearby the combat can't be fair.
    If you're alone and/or need to flee or fight when encountering PK, you should never ever be overloaded. Being overloaded is asking for death. It's like the basics of basics of Gatherer101.
    So you go out run 2 or 3 zone on a horse then dismount enter the red zone and take a stack or 2 of resources and run back? Then it's not viable, so same thing lol!! You never gatherer obviously and yet felt it was important to voice your opinion on the matter... Thanks but it's worthless
    Huhu .. You're a funny one. Enjoy your next deaths.
  • Moonshivers wrote:

    So you go out run 2 or 3 zone on a horse then dismount enter the red zone and take a stack or 2 of resources and run back? Then it's not viable, so same thing lol!! You never gatherer obviously and yet felt it was important to voice your opinion on the matter... Thanks but it's worthless
    Moonshivers please, some people are trying to help you with good advices, you just need to accept that you don't know much about the game yet and this is why you're dying so often.

    Gathering in RZ is very easy, I'll recap here:
    - ride armored horses,
    - never get overloaded,
    - use a weapon with mobility skills (bloodletter, double-bladed staff, maybe greathammer),
    - always keep an eye on the hostile counter,
    - stay close to your mount when gathering and aim it with your mouse so you can re-mount asap,
    - use wanderlust on your boots,
    - use ambush on your chest,
    And you're good to go.

    I'm sure you can understand the game has a learning curve, once you get there, the risk of dying when gathering in RZ is very very low.
    Also, live in Caerleon if you want to gather in RZ so you don't have to "run 2 or 3 zones".

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Drazhen ().

  • Drazhen wrote:

    Moonshivers wrote:

    So you go out run 2 or 3 zone on a horse then dismount enter the red zone and take a stack or 2 of resources and run back? Then it's not viable, so same thing lol!! You never gatherer obviously and yet felt it was important to voice your opinion on the matter... Thanks but it's worthless
    Moonshivers please, some people are trying to help you with good advices, you just need to accept that you don't know much about the game yet and this is why you're dying so often.
    Gathering in RZ is very easy, I'll recap here:
    - ride armored horses,
    - never get overloaded,
    - use a weapon with mobility skills (bloodletter, double-bladed staff, maybe greathammer),
    - always keep an eye on the hostile counter,
    - stay close to your mount when gathering and aim it with your mouse so you can re-mount asap,
    - use wanderlust on your boots,
    - use ambush on your chest,
    And you're good to go.

    I'm sure you can understand the game has a learning curve, once you get there, the risk of dying when gathering in RZ is very very low.
    Also, live in Caerleon if you want to gather in RZ so you don't have to "run 2 or 3 zones".
    I disagree I make money faster using T3 horse, T4 armor flat no cape no bag no pots, and T5 tools go to red zone fill to 20% horse weight and return to Caerleon repeat again and again.

    when you die every 10th time This 10 number comes from @Korn referencing his hunt mechanics for PVP 10% of the time PVP should get the kill.

    so every tenth time i dont care that i died because the money i earn in 1 trip pays for my new gear because its so cheap