CC Duration Is Balanced Wrong

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  • CC Duration Is Balanced Wrong

    In an earlier post, named "Leather Armor Is Balanced Wrong" the poster noticed a linear dependency between DMG Boost vs Armor/CC Duration.

    The poster then mentioned two leather armors being wrong (which have been fixed in the NDA Patch Notes), but there are still armor pieces left with the same problem.

    Here is a list of all armor pieces, the 4 pieces being wrong highlighted in a red color:



    Armor PieceCurrent StatsCorrect Stats
    Guardian Armor (+0% DMG Bonus)+40% CC Duration+50% CC Duration
    Knight Armor (+5% DMG Bonus)+45% CC Duration
    Soldier Armor (+10% DMG Bonus)+50% CC Duration+40% CC Duration
    Royal Armor (+5% DMG Bonus)+45% CC Duration
    Graveguard Armor (+10% DMG Bonus)+50% CC Duration+40% CC Duration
    Demon Armor (+5% DMG Bonus)+45% CC Duration
    Mercenary Jacket (+20% DMG Bonus)+10% CC Duration+20% CC Duration
    (Already corrected in the NDA Patch Notes)
    Hunter Jacket (+25% DMG Bonus)+15% CC Duration
    Assassin Jacket (+30% DMG Bonus)+20% CC Duration+10% CC Duration
    (Already corrected in the NDA Patch Notes)
    Royal Jacket (+25% DMG Bonus)+15% CC Duration
    Stalker Jacket (+20% DMG Bonus)+10% CC Duration+20% CC Duration
    Hellion Jacket (+25% DMG Bonus)+15% CC Duration
    Scholar Robe (+40% DMG Bonus)+0% CC Duration
    Cleric Robe (+45% DMG Bonus)+0% CC Duration
    Mage Robe (+50% DMG Bonus)+0% CC Duration
    Royal Robe (+45% DMG Bonus)+0% CC Duration
    Druid Robe (+40% DMG Bonus)+0% CC Duration
    Fiend Robe (+45% DMG Bonus)+0% CC Duration

    The post was edited 8 times, last by TheTig ().

  • Hello @TheTig,

    As I kept you in mind as the CC Duration Expert, I have a question I like to discuss.

    Do you have a similar chart for CC Resists ?

    Because I have the feeling CC Duration might actually be somewhat useless - why :

    1) CC Duration on all Weapons is stated as Percentage Numbers, that means it does not scale with Itemspower or armor tier, it just stays the same.
    2) All Armors have CC Resistance, even T4 Cloth which starts at around 140
    3) AND CC Resistance increases by Itempower/tier

    If you take a T4 Cloth piece, and check your stats it will tell you that your the CC Resists will already reduce CC effect/duration by around 50% (A T8 Mage Robe will have 224 CC Resist)

    This basically means that even the best CC Duration buff is already eaten up by the weakest CC Resistance on Cloth Armor (T4) and will even get worse once you fight higer tier ...


    One of the longest roots in the Game Quarterstaffs "Seperator" which states to stun for ~8 seconds at T4 would extend to 15 Seconds if you wear Soldier Armor and activate Hunter Boots Rush, BUT that is agains naked Enemy - ONCE your openent wears any Armor (lets say you are lucky its T4 Cloth) it will tickle down to about 5 seconds - and it only gets worse from there ...

    Now think that through what that means for CC that is not that long already, like the short stun on Double Bladed Stun-Run e.g.

    Am I making a mistake here, or is all this CC Duration buffing just plain worthless effort with almost no effect ? Why does only CC Resists scale and make CC even more worthless with increasing itempower of your enemys armor - without you having a possibility to catch up ?

    Cheers,
    Skitted

    P.s. Actually looking at Elsas Spreadsheet the CC Resists are WAY higher, than what armor had before - compared to for example what AlbionHead.com states. Did they increas CC Resists on all Armor ? Why does even cloth have 140(T4) to 221 (T8) ???

    @Retroman FYI
    @Rosalia - Didn't you favor a Soldier Armor/Hunter Boots/Hammer Build - what is the actual effect on players really - what is the longest root really possible against an enemy wearing the weakest armor ?

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Skitted ().

  • Using T4/T8 Great Hammer 'E' skill and T4/T8 Assassin Jacket.

    T4 Stun duration: 5.21
    T8 Stun duration: 7.15

    T4 CC resistance: 153
    T8 CC resistance: 272

    Formula: reduced cc duration = base cc duration / ( (100 + CC resistance) / 100)
    (Not in game right now and never calculated stun duration. But I think it should be the same formula used for armor/magic resistance. If it isn't please tell me and I'm going to do some extensive testing for that.)

    So T4 weapon vs T4 armor:
    2.059 = 5.21 / ((100 + 153) / 100)

    T8 weapon vs T8 armor:
    1.922 = 7.15 / ((100 + 272) / 100)

    T8 weapon vs T4 armor:
    2.826 = 7.15 / ((100 + 153) / 100)

    T4 weapon vs T8 armor:
    1.400 = 5.21 / ((100 + 272) / 100)

    As we can see, the stun duration is roughly the same if we compare weapon/armor of the same tier.
    This doesn't include any +CC duration from armor or skills.

    Edit: As always, values are used from albiononline2d.com
  • Your example shows that the cc duration of a nice T4/T8 Hammer already is reduced to ~2 seconds only by leather, quite similar with cloth, which also has CC resists starting around 140.

    This means an increase of the stun duration by The hammer-user wearing a armor that gives a CC duration bonus has equaly little effect.

    Correct ?

    It reads soo nice if you read the tooltip of the weapon spells, but as to above knowledge you will most likely not even see half of it ever happen in pvp.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Skitted ().

  • Let's take the T4 values.

    If the Hammer user is wearing a Knight armor he would get +45% CC duration.

    Let's get the new stun durations:
    New pre-reduction duration 7.5545 = 5.21 * 1.45

    VS Knight Armor(206 resistance): 2.469 seconds
    VS Assassin Jacke(153 resistance): 2.986 seconds
    VS Mage Robe(116 resistance): 3.497 seconds

    Thats a skill with 15 seconds cooldown.
    The Windwall (which is getting nerfed from 40s to 50s cooldown with Joseph) lasts for 4 seconds.

    So the stun duration seems fine to me. Definitely not useless.

    If we really take a soildier armor + fury + rush from hunter shoes (unrealistic, but hey, why not):
    New duration 14.3275 = 5.21 * (1 + 0.4 + 1.0 + 0.35)

    VS Knight Armor(206 resistance): 4.682 seconds
    VS Assassin Jacke(153 resistance): 5.663 seconds
    VS Mage Robe(116 resistance): 6.633 seconds
  • First, thanks @Nydiadus for taking the time to calculate all this.

    "So the stun duration seems fine to me. Definitely not useless"

    Ok, agreed - its not "useless", but for me it boild down to :

    "A skill that states to have a 5,21 seconds root, will - if you wear top-notch-cc-duraction-increase-gear ("unrealistic") only leave you with stunning the target for Maximum 6,633 seconds - and that is the highest you ever get. If your enemy is wearing leather or plate or even higher tier that number will tickle further down. And that is just the numbers for the best-of-all-options for you." Tooltips are nice, but reality is rather sad.
  • This thread was mainly focusing on the oversight that some chest pieces had their +cc duration stats mixed up.
    According to the latest update to the NDA Patch Notes this should be fixed now so this bug report can be considered as fixed*

    Retroman wrote:

    Additional Crowd Control Duration Factor:


    Mercenary Jacket: 10% -> 20%

    Assassin Jacket: 20% -> 10%

    Soldier Armor: 50% -> 40%

    Guardian Armor: 40% -> 50%

    *Assuming that the artifact armors have been updated accordingly as well just not listed in the patch notes.

    Thanks devs, keep up the good work :)
  • Skitted wrote:

    @Rosalia - Didn't you favor a Soldier Armor/Hunter Boots/Hammer Build - what is the actual effect on players really - what is the longest root really possible against an enemy wearing the weakest armor ?
    i only test my stuff on a perfect equal item power, and i can get my beloved hammer CC rotation with knockout and the polehammer E pretty much into numbers where it gets ridicolous, a 15 seconds sleep against a medium player is possible. stun up to 10 seconds are also possible.


    On the sidenote, i screencapture my buff bar somewhere else so i dont have to deal with the improveable UI to see my hammer passive stacks ( after 5 hits you get more cc Duration, which is key for a top tier hammer gameplay) and the fury stacks (even tho you cant affect them on your own, and when you press it you are on a timer already)


    But yes, CC duration has a kind of soft cap as explained since your whole effort of stacking it always gets lowered by the opponents armor. so if he removes 50% cc duration with his gear, your 200% are only worth half, but open world well used long slows and GvG/HG well used long stuns are pretty huge and important if used well.
    Proud owner of the T8 Offhand book Rosalia's Diary. Feel free to pm me once you have your own item named in Albion.