Melee DPS - a compare (Axes do suck)

    • Melee DPS - a compare (Axes do suck)

      There have been a few strings on Axes. Having extensively played axe (and comparing vs other melee across all BETAs) - there is a significant issue. It just gets glossed over because Clarion/Scythe is great for GvG and many a person has been snookered by the 1H battle axe in duels.

      Issue with Axes: CC and Buffs are critical to overall success. The proposed nerf/buffs coming make this even more true. As an Axe user if you choose from the limited CC/Buffs (W) - you take a serious hit as seen here in this quick compare*:



      Observations:
      1. Choosing some Axe buffs (no CC choice really for Axe) leaves you seriously underwater in terms of DPS (25%+ lower DMG). Not choosing a CC buff, means you are at the higher range of other melee DPS, although sword/dagger/spear STILL have cc/buff which has a much higher weight to outcomes in open world/PVP and GvG.
      2. Even if you don't buy overall that the Axe line has an issue - you have to at least acknowledge that Halberd sucks big time as a DPS melee weapon, and Great Axe is OK (too easy to cancel the whirlwind channel, or the channel is too long IMO)
      Suggestions:
      1. Add a modicum of either slow or speed stacking - tieing the Q skills to either the W or E skills.. maybe something related to bleed. Swords, Spear and Dagger all have a similar stacking CC or buff ability - which makes sense as this is critical to closing the gap or melee range battle.


      Disclaimer: I left out all artifacts from this table, since those are a slightly different beast. This also isn't going to reflect exact numbers or address all the rock/paper/scissor scenarios - BUT it does highlight a signifiant deficiency with the Axe line vs other Melee DPS lines.

      Have at it..

      *typo - daggers don't have root.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 4 mal editiert, zuletzt von Eron () aus folgendem Grund: fixed #s, clarify

    • Axes outweight lack of dps with utility.
      They all have 30% healing reduction which is huge, combined with bleeds which synergize well with merc jacket.
      They have amazing ability which is deadly chop, that deals massive damage and applies a big armor debuff.

      After that - battle axe has amazing selfhealing, can manfight any melee build and win effortlessly (Unless it's another axe)
      Halberd and carrioncaller have Es which further reduce healing, making it good against anything that heals itself.
      The battleaxe is probably the only one which lacks utility.

      And yeah, since when do daggers have a root?
    • You're all just proving my point!

      Don't chose any move CC - and you have great DPS (yes, agree). BUT, chose some type of move/CC (W) and you are screwed: you're DPS drops by over 50% and you are way worse off than Spear or Sword which still has DPS ++ move/CC debuff or buffs.

      Don't get me wrong, the heal/bleed de-buff is good - it is just the overall skill sets are unbalanced vs other melee. Skills/CC needs an adjustment. Once the new re-balancing goes in, it will be even worse.
    • Eron schrieb:

      You're all just proving my point!

      Don't chose any move CC - and you have great DPS (yes, agree). BUT, chose some type of move/CC (W) and you are screwed: you're DPS drops by over 50% and you are way worse off than Spear or Sword which still has DPS ++ move/CC debuff or buffs.

      Don't get me wrong, the heal/bleed de-buff is good - it is just the overall skill sets are unbalanced vs other melee. Skills/CC needs an adjustment. Once the new re-balancing goes in, it will be even worse.
      Atleast you can choose. Value that.
      And you'll always have good amount of utility just because of your q.
    • Neshert schrieb:

      Eron schrieb:

      No - Im talking about the case where Axe user choses CC (no Deadly Chop) - thats where the gap in DPS is vs other Melee weapons. See the yellow highlighted problem spot.
      Why dont you talk then about Sword being underpowered when choosing DMG instead of CC/buffs? 1450 vs 1950, 2100, 2200. You just talk about Axes being UP without looking to the other weapons.
      I did... its right there in the table in the OP. Swords are still OK if choosing CC, granted still not as good as spear/dagger - but Axe is still worse.
    • Eron schrieb:

      Neshert schrieb:

      Eron schrieb:

      No - Im talking about the case where Axe user choses CC (no Deadly Chop) - thats where the gap in DPS is vs other Melee weapons. See the yellow highlighted problem spot.
      Why dont you talk then about Sword being underpowered when choosing DMG instead of CC/buffs? 1450 vs 1950, 2100, 2200. You just talk about Axes being UP without looking to the other weapons.
      I did... its right there in the table in the OP. Swords are still OK if choosing CC, granted still not as good as spear/dagger - but Axe is still worse.



      How have daggers been brought up multiple times in relation to CC in this thread? Right next to Spear's too?! Absurd.

      There is a single dagger line (claws) with CC on it, using the E. Outside of that you're given nothing. Don't bring up Infiltration because that skill has been proven to suck or be heavily broken.
      According to the NDA test changes, dagger will be given a skillshot root which won't last very long IIRC and obviously has a great chance of whiffing or even hitting a teammate depending on usage. Very situational and you're sacrificing your W Dash for it.


      Anyway, back to the topic...axes. They could use some work.