Dual Swords Adjustment in Joseph

    • owensssss schrieb:

      Clarent needs to be clearly better than the non artifact swords, otherwise why are they artifacts. With the range and speed DS will have I don't think it'll be dead in the water. if so I think it'll be from a lack of working DS to its strengths, by pple trying to play them against how they want to be played.
      There's several issues with this idea, the most forward of which is this isn't consistent across the board. Many (if not most) Artifact Weapons and Armor are vastly more niche to the standard weapons and are too quirky to be used effectively in most situations. In fact, only a few really stand out as being way better than any of the base weapons... and usually only at one thing.

      For second, it's a silly philosophy. If standard weapons are meant to only be "gateways" until you are not piss poor and can afford "real" weapons (IE: The Artifacts), what's the point of even having standard weapons above T4? Why have crafting and specializations that go up to 100 for each of these fake, gateway weapons if using them are, by design, vastly inferior choices across the board?
    • cause artifacts are rarer and more expensive than the standard weapon you need to justify that expense and risk which is part of why the IP of each artifact type is higher depending on rarity. Hellgate artifacts are rarer than Keeper or morgana artifacts and have a higher IP. a person who runs non artifacts is not risking nearly as much each time they leave home as one who is runnin 2-3 artifacts. maybe you dont want to constantly drain your bank account for the extra 15% chance at winning (or whatever extra chance at victory better gear grants you) by wearing expensive artifacts, youd rather be able to gear up and build up specialization in something you can regularly afford. especially when you might get rolled by 6v1 where your artifact wont do anything to save you.
    • owensssss schrieb:

      Clarent needs to be clearly better than the non artifact swords, otherwise why are they artifacts. With the range and speed DS will have I don't think it'll be dead in the water. if so I think it'll be from a lack of working DS to its strengths, by pple trying to play them against how they want to be played.
      ? Forgehammers? Tombhammer? Heron Spear? Spirit hunter is basically only used for fishing. Black Monk Stave? Black Hands? Idk much about caster weapons so I won't comment on those but there are a TON of artifact weapons that are inferior to its normal counterparts and are never used.

      Some of which are HYPER expensive. Clarent blade is a CHEAP ASS artifact as well compared to a wide variety of others.


      The issue here @owensssss is that DS and Clarent are TOO similar. Most weapon lines E ability is uniquely different in terms of how it deals damage or functions. DS and Clarent are almost identical weapons. they both stack their Q and then use their E for an AoE damage ability...Clarents AoE is bigger and INSTANT and DS is a leap/delay and smaller AoE.

      the difference? DS can be outplayed with the delay time on leaps, DS have a smaller window to use their E than clarents since you can lose your heroic stacks mid-air and cant wait til the last moment. Clarents can now use their E more frequently than dual sword can. Clarents AoE is larger and easier to hit and will hit more people. DS have a leap.

      Clarent is 1h and can wear a shield and do as much damage and more often than a weapon that uses two swords at once. It's just illogical.


      My biggest concerns still aren't even the CD. It's the damage being too similar and the AoE being smaller and more difficult to land.


      DS will be dead in the water because right now every high end GVG team says "Why bring DS when you can bring a Clarent?". It's literally "Why use this, when this is the same thing and better".



      Personally it won't affect me, as i'll still play DS as my main weapon and ill play something boring/necessary for ZvZ so that I don't get called a shit monkey retard. But i'll gladly continue to trigger people in my off -time with my off meta DS + Soldier Chest combo.
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      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Zavage ()

    • owensssss schrieb:

      cause artifacts are rarer and more expensive than the standard weapon you need to justify that expense and risk which is part of why the IP of each artifact type is higher depending on rarity. Hellgate artifacts are rarer than Keeper or morgana artifacts and have a higher IP. a person who runs non artifacts is not risking nearly as much each time they leave home as one who is runnin 2-3 artifacts. maybe you dont want to constantly drain your bank account for the extra 15% chance at winning (or whatever extra chance at victory better gear grants you) by wearing expensive artifacts, youd rather be able to gear up and build up specialization in something you can regularly afford. especially when you might get rolled by 6v1 where your artifact wont do anything to save you.
      Again, what you say just isn't consistent with what's in game. Again, many if not most artifact weapons and armors are flat out quirky, clunky or just not very useful with their effects... to the point where their price is comparable to other weapons because they aren't as popular. They'll come with a higher ipower, comparable cost, but not be bought because their impact isn't as strong as basic weapons and armor.

      In the case of obvious meta weapons like Clarent, the price difference between - say - a Tier VI Clarent (99k) and a Tier VI Dual Sword (40k)... isn't going to break the bank overall, especially factoring in the cost of Tier VI Armor, good consumables, good mounts, and accessories. You'll spend an extra 10-15% of your budget. Moreover, a Tier V Clarent Blade costs (26k) and will provide the exact same ipower as a Tier VI Dual Sword... thus, you can make a case that if you're really on a budget, a Tier V Clarent Blade is the better budget choice than a Tier VI Dual Sword... not to mention having the hands down superior E in every way.
    • i do agree that theyre too similar, which is why SBI will always balance Clarent as a better version of DS because its essentially the "rare" version, thats what i mean by justifying the arifact. those other artifacts are niche so they dont have real competition for them to overshadow, they dont make other general use weapons totally useless. until they change DS to not be a shadow of Clarents skills i dont think itd be right for SBI to make DS compete in the same exact way as Clarent. just a stats buff isnt enough to fix the "Why use this, when this is the same thing and better" arguement . Unless SBI does a rework of the E, IMO the only way to make DS shine is to exploit what makes it unique as much as possible, find a way to really abuse the leap.
    • owensssss schrieb:

      i do agree that theyre too similar, which is why SBI will always balance Clarent as a better version of DS because its essentially the "rare" version, thats what i mean by justifying the arifact. those other artifacts are niche so they dont have real competition for them to overshadow, they dont make other general use weapons totally useless. until they change DS to not be a shadow of Clarents skills i dont think itd be right for SBI to make DS compete in the same exact way as Clarent. just a stats buff isnt enough to fix the "Why use this, when this is the same thing and better" arguement . Unless SBI does a rework of the E, IMO the only way to make DS shine is to exploit what makes it unique as much as possible, find a way to really abuse the leap.
      Due to the near-idiot proof size of Clarent's AoE, Dual Swords will never compete with Clarent anyway. Right now, Dual Swords is a joke weapon. It goes live with a 25% longer cooldown, it's not even a funny joke anymore.
    • owensssss schrieb:

      i do agree that theyre too similar, which is why SBI will always balance Clarent as a better version of DS because its essentially the "rare" version, thats what i mean by justifying the arifact. those other artifacts are niche so they dont have real competition for them to overshadow, they dont make other general use weapons totally useless. until they change DS to not be a shadow of Clarents skills i dont think itd be right for SBI to make DS compete in the same exact way as Clarent. just a stats buff isnt enough to fix the "Why use this, when this is the same thing and better" arguement . Unless SBI does a rework of the E, IMO the only way to make DS shine is to exploit what makes it unique as much as possible, find a way to really abuse the leap.

      Yeah they're simply too similar and thus why DS doesn't have a "place" in stuff.

      I think theres a couple MAJOR ways they could tweak/rework the E

      1. Make you immune to CC during the leap. This is the simplest and most balanced of the options I am going to list. As right now the leap alone is ridiculously easy to stop windwall, fear, root, stun, knock up, holy staff knack back and more. It's laughable how easy it is to completely negate the damage of the E considering how predictable it is as well.

      2. A more effective way to make the skill differ from clarent and give it utility would be for the leap to also apply a SLOW to the targets it hit when landing.




      NOTE: For the two below, the way I picture the skill happening would be identical to the dual sword Warrior SCYTHE ability from TERA. Skip to 30 seconds:


      3. Make the skill a line spin AoE. Where you spin your blades in a circle around you in a straight line, damaging everyone you pass through. Now you could say this is similar to Carving, however Carving has a flat damage value and its stacks apply a SUNDER which is gonna be amazing, this would be a more raw damage output ability without any additional effects compared to Carving.

      4. (Prob my favorite) Same as above. Spin 14m in a direction until you either reach the max distance or COLLIDE with an enemy where you stop and deal damage to all targets in a 4m AoE around you. (might be too difficult for SBI to create :P
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