Dual Swords Adjustment in Joseph

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    • Meanie schrieb:

      Zavage schrieb:

      Meanie schrieb:

      Zavage schrieb:

      skillazor schrieb:

      I think dual swords are abit non sense when u must stack meele rang Q for high dps E then making leap with 0 m ...
      Aye one of the animations issues was trying to use E in melee range, the animation seemed much slower and took way to long to finish and was actually quite easy to prevent/avoid. One of the large issues the E still has is if you get knocked back, rooted, stunned, etc during the animation, the damage is cancelled and it goes on CD. It's one of the most punishing skills in the game to use.It's good that they're increasing the speed of the animation, but until we actually see it in action we won't know how truly effective the change really will be.
      Same issue that 1H Spear's E has. If you use the leap in melee range you still have to go through the leap animation which can take awhile.
      Yeahhhhhh..but...Spears AoE has a knock back effect...plus they have a heavy aoe W to go with it....
      I am aware. I am just saying there are other weapons that suffer from this animation issue.
      what i am saying is the animation is less of an issue on spears because its aoe leap actually has a CC effect. It knocks back everyone hit on top of doing good damage. So it also interrupts casting etc. If DS aoe also had an impact effect that interrupted people id have less complaints about the animation as it would be an ability with more utility than just movement.
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    • Zavage schrieb:

      Meanie schrieb:

      Zavage schrieb:

      Meanie schrieb:

      Zavage schrieb:

      skillazor schrieb:

      I think dual swords are abit non sense when u must stack meele rang Q for high dps E then making leap with 0 m ...
      Aye one of the animations issues was trying to use E in melee range, the animation seemed much slower and took way to long to finish and was actually quite easy to prevent/avoid. One of the large issues the E still has is if you get knocked back, rooted, stunned, etc during the animation, the damage is cancelled and it goes on CD. It's one of the most punishing skills in the game to use.It's good that they're increasing the speed of the animation, but until we actually see it in action we won't know how truly effective the change really will be.
      Same issue that 1H Spear's E has. If you use the leap in melee range you still have to go through the leap animation which can take awhile.
      Yeahhhhhh..but...Spears AoE has a knock back effect...plus they have a heavy aoe W to go with it....
      I am aware. I am just saying there are other weapons that suffer from this animation issue.
      what i am saying is the animation is less of an issue on spears because its aoe leap actually has a CC effect. It knocks back everyone hit on top of doing good damage. So it also interrupts casting etc. If DS aoe also had an impact effect that interrupted people id have less complaints about the animation as it would be an ability with more utility than just movement.

      You'd still just as likely whiff the skill because of how long it takes to land the AoE. I am not saying that the spear skill is not good or that the DS skill is good, I'm literally just stating that there are other skills that have this same animation problem. I am not disagreeing with you about the spear's skill either. Knockback=interrupt and that is very nice.

      It is a problem that other skills share and hopefully they do something about it. Utility, usefulness and everything else aside it's still a faulty mechanic.
    • personally think they should scrap the centered AOE E, having a toned down version of an artifact is boooooring, just like halberd is booooring. either its hits everyone from start to finish along the route, or its an attack speed + ability power increase makes all attacks dmg enemies directly behind the target in a cone, or something that makes it truly unique and not just the crappy 'first iteration' version of the artifact.
    • owensssss schrieb:

      personally think they should scrap the centered AOE E, having a toned down version of an artifact is boooooring, just like halberd is booooring. either its hits everyone from start to finish along the route, or its an attack speed + ability power increase makes all attacks dmg enemies directly behind the target in a cone, or something that makes it truly unique and not just the crappy 'first iteration' version of the artifact.
      Why stop at just the E? Personally I feel they could scrap the entire sword line anyway on grounds of them being "inferior spears". I believe you need some kind of distinct identity to warrant an entire weapon line.

      Sure I might be stepping on sword user toes here but do they really want to keep a clearly "inferior" line the way it is because they already leveled it up? I really hope SBI looks at redundant weapons.
    • Zarek schrieb:

      Seirou schrieb:

      just look at new Wand add duals E
      in theory it looks nice
      What is the new "W" skill of the swords? If you have more information, would it be possible to have a link to that thread or source? I'd like to read about the new changes in greater details.
      click my youtube link in my signature, there will be video updates for every edit and as well links to the forum to see it.

      Or just look for it on the forums! NDA playtest
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    • Seirou schrieb:

      RockLobster schrieb:

      Can someone explain the logic behind this?
      just look at new Wand add duals E
      in theory it looks nice
      Doesn't fix the issue of getting stacks. If you have 3 stacks, use the W and THEN leap...very possible chance the heroic charge stacks will drop off mid jump and then your damage will tickle. The duration of the buff or the method in which we get stacks needs to be adjusted. A 2 second window to hit that ability is brutal.

      ALSO: New W + Clarent Blade E, STILL going to be better than dual swords. Clarent Blade does nearly identical damage and it's E is a much larger Aoe, thus easier to hit, and the damage is instant. So dual swords will still be inferior, better than before yes, but still inferior.

      Carving swords however will be godly.
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    • Q should last longer or you have almost no time to land it with 3 stacks.

      E should remain with 15 seconds CD. It's funny that they try to buff dual swords but at the same time they nerf it. I think the nerf is even worse than the buff.


      And by the way, Claymore is still in a bad position, it is just viable in ganking (not even in escaping) and there are better weapons on this situation. I would rather that Claymore would ignore armor depending on the Q stacks so it is viable in group pvp. 600 dmg and ignores 10/25/40% armor. Something like this. Claymore and Dual Swords are terrible and will still be if they keep this road.
    • JonahVeil schrieb:

      Just never made sense to me why Dual swords CHARGES up, has a SMALLER AoE.

      It's two fucking swords.

      It's AoE should be bigger than clarent.

      And do much more damage.
      The AoE should indeed be the larger one of the two weapons since you swing in a circle with a sword in each arm, and clarent is a 1 handed whirl, no matter how you look at it the damage should be higher. they should make the % damage scale with heroic charges and be true damage, not magic damage. 1 stack 1.5%, 2 stack 3%, 3 stacks 4.5%, that way it's more rewarding if you can get full stacks, cause lets be honest, the hardest part is getting 3 stacks and then hitting the ability. It's a much higher risk ability and should be rewarded as such.

      A. Make it more rewarding to actually hit people

      or

      B. Make the aoe larger. Clarent will always be taken over DS as long as it's aoe is larger and has similar damage.
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    • I would love that as an identity for swords, but that's maces and hammers. I'm pretty sure I'm butchering the history but that's what maces and hammers were made for. Not that maces and hammers do that now anyway (why it's on daggers IDK).

      You know what? Since weapons are all over the place in terms of purpose anyway, why not.
    • skillazor schrieb:

      I think dual swords are abit non sense when u must stack meele rang Q for high dps E then making leap with 0 m ...
      This is at the core of the issue and why I could never stick with swords (though I wanted to)...

      Incase this isnt transparent enough, you must be ONTOP of the guy already to get the "stack" from Q, in order to have your "E" have any benefit...

      So its like this "catch 22" thing... You can use E as a gap closer, but then get no benefit from stacks, or you dont close the gap and also dont get benefit from stacks.

      I know they released a new sword ability:
      New Slot 2 ability: Splitting Slash
      • Splits the earth in a straight line in front of you. Any enemy directly hit will receive damage, and be rooted

      Which I think HELPS, however even with this... You still have this concept of Splitting Slash -> (cannot use "E" since no stacks) RUN up to them, build stacks, Then E...

      It just seems nonsensical to me to make a gap closer's effects contingent upon having something they need to be in their face with....

      I like the idea of a "stacks" system, however I think they need to re-think "Q"s involvement with "E". I would hate to see this mimic Spears so much by increasing duration, and making it "cast anywhere" but that WOULD be a step in the right direction... However that is what turned me off to spears... IMO its an un-fun playstyle having to press an ability every 6-8 seconds just to keep a buff active.

      What I would like to see more of, is using "E" as a true gap closer, which then sets you up for a "stacking" Q and possible a "W".
    • Viskag schrieb:

      skillazor schrieb:

      I think dual swords are abit non sense when u must stack meele rang Q for high dps E then making leap with 0 m ...
      This is at the core of the issue and why I could never stick with swords (though I wanted to)...
      Incase this isnt transparent enough, you must be ONTOP of the guy already to get the "stack" from Q, in order to have your "E" have any benefit...

      So its like this "catch 22" thing... You can use E as a gap closer, but then get no benefit from stacks, or you dont close the gap and also dont get benefit from stacks.

      I know they released a new sword ability:
      New Slot 2 ability: Splitting Slash
      • Splits the earth in a straight line in front of you. Any enemy directly hit will receive damage, and be rooted
      Which I think HELPS, however even with this... You still have this concept of Splitting Slash -> (cannot use "E" since no stacks) RUN up to them, build stacks, Then E...

      It just seems nonsensical to me to make a gap closer's effects contingent upon having something they need to be in their face with....

      I like the idea of a "stacks" system, however I think they need to re-think "Q"s involvement with "E". I would hate to see this mimic Spears so much by increasing duration, and making it "cast anywhere" but that WOULD be a step in the right direction... However that is what turned me off to spears... IMO its an un-fun playstyle having to press an ability every 6-8 seconds just to keep a buff active.

      What I would like to see more of, is using "E" as a true gap closer, which then sets you up for a "stacking" Q and possible a "W".


      Again, there could and should be an option just like Spear's work with an anytime usable stack building. I don't know if Spear's is the only weapon with this option, but it should probably be an option for every weapon..


      I think it makes sense if you're basically "readying" yourself. Having to time the charges and such isn't an issue when other roles have to be all micro-managey as well.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Meanie ()

    • Meanie schrieb:

      Viskag schrieb:

      skillazor schrieb:

      I think dual swords are abit non sense when u must stack meele rang Q for high dps E then making leap with 0 m ...
      This is at the core of the issue and why I could never stick with swords (though I wanted to)...Incase this isnt transparent enough, you must be ONTOP of the guy already to get the "stack" from Q, in order to have your "E" have any benefit...

      So its like this "catch 22" thing... You can use E as a gap closer, but then get no benefit from stacks, or you dont close the gap and also dont get benefit from stacks.

      I know they released a new sword ability:
      New Slot 2 ability: Splitting Slash
      • Splits the earth in a straight line in front of you. Any enemy directly hit will receive damage, and be rooted
      Which I think HELPS, however even with this... You still have this concept of Splitting Slash -> (cannot use "E" since no stacks) RUN up to them, build stacks, Then E...

      It just seems nonsensical to me to make a gap closer's effects contingent upon having something they need to be in their face with....

      I like the idea of a "stacks" system, however I think they need to re-think "Q"s involvement with "E". I would hate to see this mimic Spears so much by increasing duration, and making it "cast anywhere" but that WOULD be a step in the right direction... However that is what turned me off to spears... IMO its an un-fun playstyle having to press an ability every 6-8 seconds just to keep a buff active.

      What I would like to see more of, is using "E" as a true gap closer, which then sets you up for a "stacking" Q and possible a "W".
      Again, there could and should be an option just like Spear's work with an anytime usable stack building. I don't know if Spear's is the only weapon with this option, but it should probably be an option for every weapon..
      Actually Spear and Swords are the only two weapon types that have their "E" rely on a stacking mechanic from "Q" that I know of.... Things like Bows, Daggers, Axes etc. dont have any relation to their E to my knowledge... Though I only know about half of all the weapons.

      Frankly... I would remove any ties from "Q" to "E" for ALL swords and just "default" all "E" abilities at the TWO stacks level. This would be a buff to Two Swords, Claymore, and Carving, but would be a NERF to Clarent Blade's AoE DMG...

      I would also re-tool the Weakening Passive so that its "every 4 hits reduces healing and damage by 7% for 3 seconds".

      Now you have a true "jack of all trades" weapon. Medium damage, medium control, medium debuffs etc.

      EDIT: Why I dislike the Spear mechanic is I think its not a fun way to play and Spears were designed to be a "ranged" weapon so it makes sense allowing them to build up their stacks at ranged. Swords are Melee so it makes NO sense to tie gap closers to a melee stacking mechanic. I like that Swords have an AoE and ST option on Q and wouldnt change that. They just need to be geared towards Melee Range attacks and not given a kit that is a catch 22....

      Thats my personal opinion.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Viskag ()

    • Viskag schrieb:

      Meanie schrieb:

      Viskag schrieb:

      skillazor schrieb:

      I think dual swords are abit non sense when u must stack meele rang Q for high dps E then making leap with 0 m ...
      This is at the core of the issue and why I could never stick with swords (though I wanted to)...Incase this isnt transparent enough, you must be ONTOP of the guy already to get the "stack" from Q, in order to have your "E" have any benefit...
      So its like this "catch 22" thing... You can use E as a gap closer, but then get no benefit from stacks, or you dont close the gap and also dont get benefit from stacks.

      I know they released a new sword ability:
      New Slot 2 ability: Splitting Slash
      • Splits the earth in a straight line in front of you. Any enemy directly hit will receive damage, and be rooted
      Which I think HELPS, however even with this... You still have this concept of Splitting Slash -> (cannot use "E" since no stacks) RUN up to them, build stacks, Then E...

      It just seems nonsensical to me to make a gap closer's effects contingent upon having something they need to be in their face with....

      I like the idea of a "stacks" system, however I think they need to re-think "Q"s involvement with "E". I would hate to see this mimic Spears so much by increasing duration, and making it "cast anywhere" but that WOULD be a step in the right direction... However that is what turned me off to spears... IMO its an un-fun playstyle having to press an ability every 6-8 seconds just to keep a buff active.

      What I would like to see more of, is using "E" as a true gap closer, which then sets you up for a "stacking" Q and possible a "W".
      Again, there could and should be an option just like Spear's work with an anytime usable stack building. I don't know if Spear's is the only weapon with this option, but it should probably be an option for every weapon..
      Actually Spear and Swords are the only two weapon types that have their "E" rely on a stacking mechanic from "Q" that I know of.... Things like Bows, Daggers, Axes etc. dont have any relation to their E to my knowledge... Though I only know about half of all the weapons.
      Frankly... I would remove any ties from "Q" to "E" for ALL swords and just "default" all "E" abilities at the TWO stacks level. This would be a buff to Two Swords, Claymore, and Carving, but would be a NERF to Clarent Blade's AoE DMG...

      I would also re-tool the Weakening Passive so that its "every 4 hits reduces healing and damage by 7% for 3 seconds".

      Now you have a true "jack of all trades" weapon. Medium damage, medium control, medium debuffs etc.

      EDIT: Why I dislike the Spear mechanic is I think its not a fun way to play and Spears were designed to be a "ranged" weapon so it makes sense allowing them to build up their stacks at ranged. Swords are Melee so it makes NO sense to tie gap closers to a melee stacking mechanic. I like that Swords have an AoE and ST option on Q and wouldnt change that. They just need to be geared towards Melee Range attacks and not given a kit that is a catch 22....

      Thats my personal opinion.


      I got caught up and didn't finish editing my above post.

      Either way though, after reading your breakdown I do believe that your suggested fix is actually really viable. The thing with the Q's also is that there are no artifact's that have any relation to any weapon line's Q's, spear or sword or anything else. So as the dev's further release weapons we will see less and less synergy.

      Not to mention there are just weapons with E's that have little to no synergy with most of the other skills (Cursed Skull, I'm looking at you).
    • Meanie schrieb:

      Viskag schrieb:

      Meanie schrieb:

      Viskag schrieb:

      skillazor schrieb:

      I think dual swords are abit non sense when u must stack meele rang Q for high dps E then making leap with 0 m ...
      This is at the core of the issue and why I could never stick with swords (though I wanted to)...Incase this isnt transparent enough, you must be ONTOP of the guy already to get the "stack" from Q, in order to have your "E" have any benefit...So its like this "catch 22" thing... You can use E as a gap closer, but then get no benefit from stacks, or you dont close the gap and also dont get benefit from stacks.

      I know they released a new sword ability:
      New Slot 2 ability: Splitting Slash
      • Splits the earth in a straight line in front of you. Any enemy directly hit will receive damage, and be rooted
      Which I think HELPS, however even with this... You still have this concept of Splitting Slash -> (cannot use "E" since no stacks) RUN up to them, build stacks, Then E...

      It just seems nonsensical to me to make a gap closer's effects contingent upon having something they need to be in their face with....

      I like the idea of a "stacks" system, however I think they need to re-think "Q"s involvement with "E". I would hate to see this mimic Spears so much by increasing duration, and making it "cast anywhere" but that WOULD be a step in the right direction... However that is what turned me off to spears... IMO its an un-fun playstyle having to press an ability every 6-8 seconds just to keep a buff active.

      What I would like to see more of, is using "E" as a true gap closer, which then sets you up for a "stacking" Q and possible a "W".
      Again, there could and should be an option just like Spear's work with an anytime usable stack building. I don't know if Spear's is the only weapon with this option, but it should probably be an option for every weapon..
      Actually Spear and Swords are the only two weapon types that have their "E" rely on a stacking mechanic from "Q" that I know of.... Things like Bows, Daggers, Axes etc. dont have any relation to their E to my knowledge... Though I only know about half of all the weapons.Frankly... I would remove any ties from "Q" to "E" for ALL swords and just "default" all "E" abilities at the TWO stacks level. This would be a buff to Two Swords, Claymore, and Carving, but would be a NERF to Clarent Blade's AoE DMG...

      I would also re-tool the Weakening Passive so that its "every 4 hits reduces healing and damage by 7% for 3 seconds".

      Now you have a true "jack of all trades" weapon. Medium damage, medium control, medium debuffs etc.

      EDIT: Why I dislike the Spear mechanic is I think its not a fun way to play and Spears were designed to be a "ranged" weapon so it makes sense allowing them to build up their stacks at ranged. Swords are Melee so it makes NO sense to tie gap closers to a melee stacking mechanic. I like that Swords have an AoE and ST option on Q and wouldnt change that. They just need to be geared towards Melee Range attacks and not given a kit that is a catch 22....

      Thats my personal opinion.
      I got caught up and didn't finish editing my above post.

      Either way though, after reading your breakdown I do believe that your suggested fix is actually really viable. The thing with the Q's also is that there are no artifact's that have any relation to any weapon line's Q's, spear or sword or anything else. So as the dev's further release weapons we will see less and less synergy.

      Not to mention there are just weapons with E's that have little to no synergy with most of the other skills (Cursed Skull, I'm looking at you).
      Yup. It would fix the Sword line almost completely and make them (from what I can tell) ALL viable again in many group comps. My only concern would be that Carving Sword with a "default" 2 stacks might be on the tad OP side... But since its an artifact, I guess I am OK with that...
    • Viskag schrieb:

      Yup. It would fix the Sword line almost completely and make them (from what I can tell) ALL viable again in many group comps. My only concern would be that Carving Sword with a "default" 2 stacks might be on the tad OP side... But since its an artifact, I guess I am OK with that...

      Carving sword's E worked off of the Q despite being an artifact? That's actually the only instance of artifact taking Q's into account I think then.