Dual Swords Adjustment in Joseph

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    • Dual Swords Adjustment in Joseph

      Retroman schrieb:

      Spinning Blades:


      Range: 11m -> 14m

      Jump Movespeed: 13 -> 20 (This means jump time changed from: 0.85s -> 0.65s)

      Cooldown: 15s -> 20s

      Energycost: 15 -> 17
      I cannot fathom why the cooldown has to go up by 25%... Dual Swords are the biggest joke weapon in Albion at the moment. To put it in the words of an officer in my guild: "If you show up to anything with Dual Blades, it's pretty much a gkick."

      Considering you can easily stack 3 stacks of Heroic Strike in 15 seconds and Swords really doesn't do much damage outside of the E, this is ultimately going to be a nerf... to the most jokeworthy spec in the entire game.

      Can someone explain the logic behind this?

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von RockLobster ()

    • RockLobster schrieb:

      Retroman schrieb:

      Spinning Blades:


      Range: 11m -> 14m

      Jump Movespeed: 13 -> 20 (This means jump time changed from: 0.85s -> 0.65s)

      Cooldown: 15s -> 20s

      Energycost: 15 -> 17
      I cannot fathom why the cooldown has to go up by 25%... Dual Swords are the biggest joke weapon in Albion at the moment. To put it in the words of an officer in my guild: "If you show up to anything with Dual Blades, it's pretty much a gkick."
      Considering you can easily stack 3 stacks of Heroic Strike in 15 seconds and Swords really doesn't do much damage outside of the E, this is ultimately going to be a nerf... to the most jokeworthy spec in the entire game.

      Can someone explain the logic behind this?
      Well they're buffing the range on it, but the main reason is cause Spear has a nearly identical ability, does damage based on spirit spear charges, you leap 11m(same as current dual swords range) and hit everyone in a 4m radius(also same as dual swords) for damage based upon your stacks of spirit spear. This spear ability has a 20 second Cooldown. So I feel like they're just bringing it's cooldown up to match the spear ability, instead of bringing the spears leap CD down.
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    • I love my dual swords, swords are going to be a meta weapon after the joseph update, specifically Carving Sword with the changes to it's E, plus the new W skill, plus the passive change for the whole skill line.

      I still think Dual Sword could use a slight damage buff in general, not a big one, like either a little more damage on the 3rd E stack or increase the direct damage from 3% -> 4%, or make the % damage increase based on heroic stacks as well..like 1 stack 1.5%, 2 stacks 3%, 3 stacks 4.5%.

      Something to make using 3 stacks more rewarding, cause the fact that the 1h sword clarent blade has a larger aoe and does almost identical damage on a 3 stack E, is lame and why everyone uses Clarent over Dual Swords.
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      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Zavage () aus folgendem Grund: New info

    • Zavage schrieb:

      Well they're buffing the range on it, but the main reason is cause Spear has a nearly identical ability, does damage based on spirit spear charges, you leap 11m(same as current dual swords range) and hit everyone in a 4m radius(also same as dual swords) for damage based upon your stacks of spirit spear.
      I get what you're saying, but that's patently absurd. If you're going to copy spears, actually copy the thing that makes them a decent weapon... the ability to build stacks while OUT of melee. It's much easier to get a 3 stack Reckless Charge when you can do so safely out of melee, then engage hard with full stacks while Swords, the only way you're building stacks is being in melee with a foe and opening yourself up to attack.

      An even bigger joke - the stacks for Spears fade after 8 seconds. Swords fades after 6. So not only is it significantly harder to build stacks on Swords, they fall off 25% faster. If we're going to be matched up against Spears, can we at least get the *good* parts about Spear rather than the bad ones (IE: 20s cooldown).

      One last point - you mention how everyone uses Clarent Blade now simply because it's a bigger AoE. What's gonna happen when Clarent Blade has the bigger AoE AND 5 second shorter cooldown. If Dual Swords is a joke now, what will be made of it then?

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 2 mal editiert, zuletzt von RockLobster ()

    • Zavage schrieb:

      TL;DR: Buff duration of heroic charge, or allow it to self apply like Spirit Charge on Spears with the same energy drawback mechanic at 3 stacks, or reduce the CD on single target heroic strike ability. Change the bleed passive to an additional auto attack swing every 5-6 hits.


      I dont feel like removing the stack process is what needs to happen. I sort of enjoy the stack mechanic, however I think it does need some tweaking.

      For example, the most difficult part of swords is getting TO 3 stacks or even re-applying that 3rd stack in case it isnt a good time to use your E yet. One of the reasons is the duration in which Heroic Charge stacks last, which is 6 seconds. Meanwhile SPEARS Spirit Charge is a 2 second CD that they can cast ANYTIME and the buff duration lasts for 8 seconds. This makes it much easier to acquire and maintain stacks compared to swords. With heroic strike on a 3 second CD you only have a 3 second window to RE-APPLY another Q stack. Much too short.

      Also the the thing that makes stacking heroic charge so difficult is the sword line lacking any real CC or movement abilities. In a game that is very CC dependent it is relatively easy to kite a sword user out and make it difficult for them to stack the buff. Without any sort of mobility skill other than move speed, you literally have to run to the target, in which many healers and casters have some sort of slow, root, or knockback to keep you away. Some sword lines have a small-medium range gap closer but those are also your BURST moves that require you to have stacks for them to truly be effective. It's a waste to use it to try and get in range of someone without any stacks on it because the person is most likely just gonna kite you out/CC you after you use it.

      A couple ways to tackle this are followed:

      1. Increase the duration of the heroic charge buff to 8 seconds like it is for spears. This will increase the window to build heroic charge stacks. As stated above, a 3 second window to reapply a stack effect is difficult on a none-mobility move class.
      2. Reduce the CD on the Single Target "Heroic Strike" ability to 2 seconds instead of 3. This will allow sword line to stack heroic charge counters at the same rate as Spirit Spear users
      3. Allow the ability to FREELY self stack like spears do, but also apply the same Energy cost increase everytime you re-apply it at the 3rd stack. Speaks for itself. Will allow the sword line to be able to use its abilities more willingly and will make their E on a much similar level to that of spears or other E dependent weapons.


      PASSIVES: There's 1 passive change I feel they should make for swords. Change the bleed to an "extra" sword swing on 5 stacks. Bleeds are AXES thing. I feel like having an additional auto attack sword swing every 5-6 normal attacks would be a great way to bring swords in line, would also increase the viability of attack speed effects on armor items allowing for greater build diversity among the sword line.

      @Korn @Retroman thoughts?
      From a different thread I commented on. Covered in depth issues with swords and various ways it could be adjusted.
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    • Going to give this a final bump.... the Devs seem to want to make Dual Swords viable by giving them some attention, but increasing the cooldown of their E from 15s to 20s will make the weapon hands-down useless compared to Clarent Blade.

      Who the heck is going to take a Dual Swords with its tiny area of effect and longer cooldown over a Clarent Blade... when, even with just a larger AoE, Clarent Blade is hands down superior in every way to Dual Swords - to the point where Clarent Blade is at least acceptable in all forms of 5v5 and Dual Swords, you get joked on for even showing up with to any fight with.

      #HelpDualSwords
    • RockLobster schrieb:

      Going to give this a final bump.... the Devs seem to want to make Dual Swords viable by giving them some attention, but increasing the cooldown of their E from 15s to 20s will make the weapon hands-down useless compared to Clarent Blade.

      Who the heck is going to take a Dual Swords with its tiny area of effect and longer cooldown over a Clarent Blade... when, even with just a larger AoE, Clarent Blade is hands down superior in every way to Dual Swords - to the point where Clarent Blade is at least acceptable in all forms of 5v5 and Dual Swords, you get joked on for even showing up with to any fight with.

      #HelpDualSwords
      Yeah it HELPS that theyre making the leap faster and the range further, but making it have a longer CD than Clarent Blade E is going to hinder it. The only way they can raise the CD and have it make sense is if they also increase the aoe size to 6m like the Clarent. THEN I can see them justifying it being 20 second CD since it has a leap as well where Clarent does not.
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    • skillazor schrieb:

      I think dual swords are abit non sense when u must stack meele rang Q for high dps E then making leap with 0 m ...
      Aye one of the animations issues was trying to use E in melee range, the animation seemed much slower and took way to long to finish and was actually quite easy to prevent/avoid. One of the large issues the E still has is if you get knocked back, rooted, stunned, etc during the animation, the damage is cancelled and it goes on CD. It's one of the most punishing skills in the game to use.

      It's good that they're increasing the speed of the animation, but until we actually see it in action we won't know how truly effective the change really will be.
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    • i like some of the suggestions @Zavage made, tho i dont think making DS identical to 1h spear is very fun. like the new passive idea, there arent many Attackspeed builds atm.

      i still dont understand what the intent is behind the 11m - 14m change. i just dont see how it synergizes with anything other sword spells. if i need 14m to land my E im probably far enough away im not building my stacks or my stacks are nearly gone, and if ive built my stacks wont i already be in melee range? or it was meant as a final gap closer, 11m seems more than enough to run down someone

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von owensssss ()

    • Zavage schrieb:

      skillazor schrieb:

      I think dual swords are abit non sense when u must stack meele rang Q for high dps E then making leap with 0 m ...
      Aye one of the animations issues was trying to use E in melee range, the animation seemed much slower and took way to long to finish and was actually quite easy to prevent/avoid. One of the large issues the E still has is if you get knocked back, rooted, stunned, etc during the animation, the damage is cancelled and it goes on CD. It's one of the most punishing skills in the game to use.
      It's good that they're increasing the speed of the animation, but until we actually see it in action we won't know how truly effective the change really will be.


      Same issue that 1H Spear's E has. If you use the leap in melee range you still have to go through the leap animation which can take awhile.
    • Meanie schrieb:

      Zavage schrieb:

      skillazor schrieb:

      I think dual swords are abit non sense when u must stack meele rang Q for high dps E then making leap with 0 m ...
      Aye one of the animations issues was trying to use E in melee range, the animation seemed much slower and took way to long to finish and was actually quite easy to prevent/avoid. One of the large issues the E still has is if you get knocked back, rooted, stunned, etc during the animation, the damage is cancelled and it goes on CD. It's one of the most punishing skills in the game to use.It's good that they're increasing the speed of the animation, but until we actually see it in action we won't know how truly effective the change really will be.
      Same issue that 1H Spear's E has. If you use the leap in melee range you still have to go through the leap animation which can take awhile.
      Yeahhhhhh..but...Spears AoE has a knock back effect...plus they have a heavy aoe W to go with it....
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    • skillazor schrieb:

      I think dual swords are abit non sense when u must stack meele rang Q for high dps E then making leap with 0 m ...
      Exactly, we still don't seem to know what The intentions of the dual sword changes of SBI are.

      Melee stacking Qs required for a E leap contradict each other in purpose.
      Self stacking Q would make sense to then leap ...

      Longer Q cooldown, shorter duration of the stacked Q and then less damage than Spears ?? What is supposed to do ? What is the intended role of the weapon that justifies this strange mix ?

      @Monochrome
    • Skitted schrieb:

      Exactly, we still don't seem to know what The intentions of the dual sword changes of SBI are.
      add to E skill CC duration scaling based on the number of enemies hit
      in conjunction with the new W skill u have a interesting jumping tank build with abit Aoe dmg .

      if it's too complicated
      replace E skill with carving sword E skill with 14 m leap ...

      dual swords weapon fixed,
      no problem, devs
      @Monochrome
    • Skitted schrieb:

      What is the intended role of the weapon
      This right here is my question for every redundant weapon there is. Why have dual swords when we have 1H spear. In my mind, D swords are the more "mobile" spear. That was BEFORE I tried out spears. Spears have superior range with their Q stacking and can choose to go with a mobility W. I like that they are trying to buff D swords but what do they want D swords to do?
    • While we are on the topic of Dual Swords I'd like to add a few things:

      The movement speed buff tool-tip of both Heroic Strike and Heroic Cleave is broken. It states that the user has 10% movement speed increase on 1,2 and 3 stacks, which is incorrect. I have verified that the movement speed bonus is applied properly at each stack, but the information on the buff tool-tip never changes:



      This is a small issue but it can be very misleading and I believe it's worth mentioning.

      Heroic Cleave ability has a great new animation (the old one was the same as Heroic Strike) but it doesn't match what the ability does. The champion swings his sword and cleaves the nearby area, but the AOE effect of the cleave is only applied in a small area around the target of the champion and not the champion himself. The information is properly explained in Heroic Cleave's tool-tip and the ability does exactly what has been written, but it just feels wrong..lackluster. I would very much like to have it cleave in a cone in front of the the character or in a area around the character instead. I would love to see what other people thing about this.

      Furthermore I fully agree with the statements below:
      • Q-stacks should fall off at more than 6 seconds;
      • Applying Q-stacks should be faster than once every 3 seconds;
      • Melee stacking Q and gap-closer E feel wrong;
      • E animation is too slow for the ability to be effective and can be misleading depending on terrain characteristics.
    • Treas schrieb:

      Another thing I want to mention since trying out spears is that sword stacks happen at the end of the Q animation. That is another thing holding sword back. There is next to no animation for something like spirit spear making the mechanic responsive (on a spear).
      Correct. If you have 1 second left on the duration, and you hit your Q, the animation will start, but the effect will drop off if the animation does not finish in time. So realistically you only have a 2-2.5 second window to reapply a stack, on a MELEE weapon with minimal mobility. Very unrealistic with how the stack mechanic works.
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    • Zavage schrieb:

      Meanie schrieb:

      Zavage schrieb:

      skillazor schrieb:

      I think dual swords are abit non sense when u must stack meele rang Q for high dps E then making leap with 0 m ...
      Aye one of the animations issues was trying to use E in melee range, the animation seemed much slower and took way to long to finish and was actually quite easy to prevent/avoid. One of the large issues the E still has is if you get knocked back, rooted, stunned, etc during the animation, the damage is cancelled and it goes on CD. It's one of the most punishing skills in the game to use.It's good that they're increasing the speed of the animation, but until we actually see it in action we won't know how truly effective the change really will be.
      Same issue that 1H Spear's E has. If you use the leap in melee range you still have to go through the leap animation which can take awhile.
      Yeahhhhhh..but...Spears AoE has a knock back effect...plus they have a heavy aoe W to go with it....


      I am aware. I am just saying there are other weapons that suffer from this animation issue.