Observation about the 3 second auto-attack rule

  • Observation about the 3 second auto-attack rule

    Love it or hate it, the 3 second delay on auto attack after dismounting is likely here to stay.

    I don't really have much of a problem with gatherers being able to so easily avoid non-consensual pvp. My issue is the fact that there's no small scale PvP happening outside of portal zones and red zone ganking.

    Fundamentally, I think the problem is a very simple one. The 3 second auto-attack delay was added, but the amount of time it takes to mount a horse did not.

    Obviously, if you have your mount out next to you, it's fine that you can quickly mount up and run off. You've made some preparations to remain safe and you deserve the benefits of having done so. But if you're running along chasing someone or pvping or killing mobs and your mount is completely put away, the 3 second auto-attack delay isn't intended to help you. It's intended to help people who are already on mounts or people who have their mounts out.

    The problem is that an attacker needs to wait 3 extra seconds to auto-attack, but the normal mounting time was not increased accordingly. Increase the time it takes to mount (from scratch) by 3 seconds and I think we'll suddenly start seeing a lot more pvp.
  • Outside of HG and GVG territories fight, there is no pvp in this game, only ganking in the open world.

    Your suggestion is fine as long as it concerns a scenario of 1 vs 1, a ganker vs a gatherer or mob farmer, but it just doesn't work with the majority of what you call ''pvp'' in this game, which is outnumbering. For this reason, a solo player will be disadvantaged in most of the scenario where he will have to face a group, with 3 seconds to mount he won't have a chance and will have to try his luck directly on foot and have near to no chance of surviving.

    edit : nvm, I didn't understand you were talking about mounting from scratch, and not when your mount was near.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Hidei ().

  • Change it to :

    1 one player kills another player = Full loot.

    1-3 players loot will be only 35%

    3-5 or more loot will be only 25%

    More then 5-10 = 5%

    10 or above only very very small procent that tings will not trash.

    This will makes it much less fun to run arround in gank groups.
  • Spankie wrote:

    Change it to :

    1 one player kills another player = Full loot.

    1-3 players loot will be only 35%

    3-5 or more loot will be only 25%

    More then 5-10 = 5%

    10 or above only very very small procent that tings will not trash.

    This will makes it much less fun to run arround in gank groups.
    I just disagree... I don't even care about the loot. I got millions of silver.

    Sure, it's exciting to get a T7 set every now and then... but that isn't really why I PvP.

    As far as OPs thought, I'd have zero issue with the idea... but I don't really see the point. Do people frequently leave the radius of their mounts in an outdoor environment enough for this to be a thing? More to the point, would they still after this change? Also, you're now running under the assumption that you'll be able to ride up to people, dismount, and still get your kill because the other guy doesnt have a mount anywhere nearby... you'll lose opportunities to gank people who you might have caught had you been on foot to start with.

    I'm all about inspiring more PvP, but you have to be very careful how it's done. More PvP shouldn't mean "It's Easier To Kill Whoever I Want"... unless it has hit a critical threshold where people just aren't dying in PvP anymore. I just don't think we're there since plenty of people usually die every time I'm in a semi-high traffic area in the Black Zone.
  • Spankie wrote:

    Change it to :

    1 one player kills another player = Full loot.

    1-3 players loot will be only 35%

    3-5 or more loot will be only 25%

    More then 5-10 = 5%

    10 or above only very very small procent that tings will not trash.

    This will makes it much less fun to run arround in gank groups.
    I don't really like that idea because it kills anything but 1v1. I could see maybe if >5 kills you then some penalty but not losing gear from multiple opponents would make all the zergs have less to lose and everyone would be rolling higher gear and crushing solos even more. ZvZ would be endless and it would alienate solo/small groups.
  • Hidei wrote:

    Outside of HG and GVG territories fight, there is no pvp in this game, only ganking in the open world.

    Your suggestion is fine as long as it concerns a scenario of 1 vs 1, a ganker vs a gatherer or mob farmer, but it just doesn't work with the majority of what you call ''pvp'' in this game, which is outnumbering. For this reason, a solo player will be disadvantaged in most of the scenario where he will have to face a group, with 3 seconds to mount he won't have a chance and will have to try his luck directly on foot and have near to no chance of surviving.

    edit : nvm, I didn't understand you were talking about mounting from scratch, and not when your mount was near.
    PVP means player versus player. Nothing more. Nothing less. Your definition limits PvP to instanced PvP, which is one form of PvP that is sometimes fun, but this game is also, lerhaps even mostly, about open world PvP. I personnaly consider open world PvP to be more real than instanced PvP because in reality, fair fights do not happen outside of sports. Instanced PvP is sport, open world PvP is conflict or war. There are plenty of other games that offer sport like PvP, in fact almost every other MMO does it. War style PvP where you do not care about anything but crushing your opponent, where death has consequences, where you fight for ressources, is what I am looking for in AO. You might not like it but it is still PvP.
  • Lensar wrote:

    Love it or hate it, the 3 second delay on auto attack after dismounting is likely here to stay.

    I don't really have much of a problem with gatherers being able to so easily avoid non-consensual pvp. My issue is the fact that there's no small scale PvP happening outside of portal zones and red zone ganking.

    Fundamentally, I think the problem is a very simple one. The 3 second auto-attack delay was added, but the amount of time it takes to mount a horse did not.

    Obviously, if you have your mount out next to you, it's fine that you can quickly mount up and run off. You've made some preparations to remain safe and you deserve the benefits of having done so. But if you're running along chasing someone or pvping or killing mobs and your mount is completely put away, the 3 second auto-attack delay isn't intended to help you. It's intended to help people who are already on mounts or people who have their mounts out.

    The problem is that an attacker needs to wait 3 extra seconds to auto-attack, but the normal mounting time was not increased accordingly. Increase the time it takes to mount (from scratch) by 3 seconds and I think we'll suddenly start seeing a lot more pvp.
    People should not rely on their mounts as means of escape.
    If you're dismounted - your mount must be gone. It should not stay while you f?ck around near it. Combat? Despawn. Mining a node? Despawn. Picked something up? Despawn.
    Want to mount up? 6 seconds and we're good.
    This way mounts will be used as a transport, like they should be used. This way it will be possible to semi-force PvP atleast by catching people doing some activities. At the moment being able to double dash and mount up in the middle of the fight is absurd and should not be possible.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Dethcord ().

  • Dethcord wrote:

    At the moment being able to double dash and mount up in the middle of the fight is absurd and should not be possible.

    Agreed. This is an issue I've had with AO since Beta 1 and one of the only areas where I've remained in constant disagreement with SBI's design philosophy.

    I look at open world pvp from a DAOC stand-point, where there was no magical form of escape from combat. SBI is looking at it from an Eve stand-point, where you could warp to escape combat, assuming you weren't interdicted.

    DAOC's combat was far superior to Eve's (the whole warp interdiction thing always felt silly to me) and helped create tons of decisive and satisfying pvp.

    Until SBI abandons the idea of warp drive mounts as a means of combat escape, open-world pvp in AO is unlikely to ever be successful.
  • Lensar wrote:

    Agreed. This is an issue I've had with AO since Beta 1 and one of the only areas where I've remained in constant disagreement with SBI's design philosophy.

    I look at open world pvp from a DAOC stand-point, where there was no magical form of escape from combat. SBI is looking at it from an Eve stand-point, where you could warp to escape combat, assuming you weren't interdicted.

    DAOC's combat was far superior to Eve's (the whole warp interdiction thing always felt silly to me) and helped create tons of decisive and satisfying pvp.

    Until SBI abandons the idea of warp drive mounts as a means of combat escape, open-world pvp in AO is unlikely to ever be successful.
    DAOC has no full loot, is not an open world pvp game, like Eve and Albion are. In DAOC no magical form of escape, but pvp was only enabled in realm RVR and dungeon Darkness falls, and pvp death penalty was not hardcore.

    For these reasons you can't base a full loot game on DAOC, because it didn't have any of those features like full loot. You die in DAOC pvp ? You just restart immediately. You die in Albion or Eve ? It has more consequences like loss of any ressources you aquired while farming and/or your gear.
  • Hidei wrote:

    DAOC has no full loot, is not an open world pvp game, like Eve and Albion are. In DAOC no magical form of escape, but pvp was only enabled in realm RVR and dungeon Darkness falls, and pvp death penalty was not hardcore.

    Um.... maybe alot of this is going over your head. We're discussing combat mechanics which allow or prevent PvP from happening. Death penalties and loot mechanics have nothing to do with it.

    I'm guessing you never actually played DAOC, or you'd know it was definitely an open-world game.
  • Lensar wrote:

    Um.... maybe alot of this is going over your head. We're discussing combat mechanics which allow or prevent PvP from happening. Death penalties and loot mechanics have nothing to do with it.

    I'm guessing you never actually played DAOC, or you'd know it was definitely an open-world game.
    I did play DAOC i was playing ''sicaire'', don't know the class name in english but it was the rogue/assassin type in DAOC-albion realm.

    DAOC was an open-world game, but I wrote it wasn't an open-world pvp game (you could avoid any pvp until max lvl) like Albion or Eve or Darkfall are.

    Yes we are discussing combat mechanics which allow or prevent PVP from happening, and death penalties and loot mechanics HAS everything to do with it. Consequences of PVP directly affects combat mechanics, it's pure logic.

    In a game like DAOC, where pvp death was not of heavy loss consequences for the player, it didn't allow a lot of form of escape, which sounds logic.

    In a game like AO or Eve, where pvp death has heavy consequences, full-loot, since the player has to farm back his gear and/or ressources, it allows forms of escape, which again is logic and proportional to death consequences.

    The post was edited 3 times, last by Hidei ().

  • Lensar wrote:

    DAOC's combat was far superior to Eve's (the whole warp interdiction thing always felt silly to me) and helped create tons of decisive and satisfying pvp.
    I really miss the times, when PvP ment fighting someone who is able to fight back...

    Here in AO the general idea seems to be that ganking (attacking someone with overwhelming force) is supposed to be the best fun possible to everyone involved.
    Including the ganked gatherer who for some reason should be happy about being killed by 4 guys with no possibility of escape.
    'Cacatio Matutina Est Tamquam Medicina'
    X/
  • Targun wrote:

    I really miss the times, when PvP ment fighting someone who is able to fight back...
    PvP was always "Player versus Player", and nothing more. And it still is.

    Targun wrote:

    Including the ganked gatherer who for some reason should be happy about being killed by 4 guys with no possibility of escape.
    Do you understand that devs may read your bullshit and actually think that a gatherer can't escape 4 people?
  • Hidei wrote:

    Outside of HG and GVG territories fight, there is no pvp in this game, only ganking in the open world.
    Am I the only one that does solo (green) dungeons? There is tons of PvP in this game outside of open world.

    Spend 30 minutes in ANY solo dungeon in red / bz. 1m silver says you'll run into a small group of 2 to 4 people that are there exclusively to kill ppl attempting to farm the dungeon.
  • Fair question, Lensar...

    Do you agree or disagree that there is a fair amount of PvP happening inside of solo (green) dungeons?

    Because I can't spend more than a few minutes in ANY solo dungeon (red or BZ) without encountering a small group of PK'ers.

    To me, this is where open world PvP TRULY happens in Albion. No mounts. No zergs. No bullshit.

    2 PK'ers vs. me? Let's aggro some mobs, ambush (now they're attacking the PK'ers) and see if I 2 v 1 those mofo's.

    4 PK'ers vs. me? Time to make an escape. Go down the path I can? Carve my way down the other direction? Try to teleport out?

    Solo Dungeons in Red or BZ... for me, this is where Albion shines. Agree or disagree, Lensar?