this place is dead as fuck

    • Dethcord schrieb:

      Belwilliam schrieb:

      @Dethcord

      You make some good points, though this particular statement is not true:

      "And t6 gathering sets cost almost nothing". T5 gathering sets are pretty cheap. T6, not so much, or at least not yet.

      boots, cap, and garb for T6 fiber are 34k. Gather backpack, if used is 49k (probably not worth wearing unlessl price comes down). And T6 tools run about 10k - 12k. Even a cheap bag, cape, and horse is going to put that north of 50k-60k, a decent horse (T5 armored), is going to put that at 80K+. That is the base amount. If gank squads stop camping portals and zone points out of portal zones, then the gatherers can actually gather. In which case they can become much more valuable targets quickly. You also need to note that most guilds require some sort of resource contributions from players to support GvG and other such efforts. So gear replacement is not our only obligation with respect to "gather" costs.

      Yes, T6 gather gear can pay off, but a bad streak can quickly get expensive. Going for the resources that have a higher payoff (6.*/7.*) also tends to be significantly riskier.


      Not sure what can be done to improve PvP opportunities so it is not always overwhelming odds. It might be fun to have more types of 5 v 5 (or 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, etc) opportunities. Maybe sort of a multi-level king of the hill "instance" fight (instance, mainly to prevent zergs). At low levels, you are matched with groups of similar power, at higher levels it is free for all. Choice of taking a "chest" (or even opening gather area with some full nodes?) or advancing to the next level for a tougher fight, but better rewards.

      Then non-elite geared players can play the lower levels.

      I think it might be better if it took longer to loot a corpse or to execute a downed player. Then in such a 5 v 5, you could lose a couple people, but defeat the enemy, and still be able to "save" your teammates (instead of getting insta-kicked as with hell gates). I mean realistically, searching / looting a corpse in a real fight would not be click, click, click done. Really, you yanked off all my clothing and searched my mount's saddle bags, loaded all that stuff into your own bags, and it took all of 3 seconds? And you did that while a vicious fight was raging around you?
      1. For the ganker, it's not more than any other player's gear, so taking into consideration the effort taken, it's not worth chasing them. For a gatherer, it's not so expensive because they don't die that often due to less risks taken. Even if you know for sure the zone some rich gathere is at, it'd still be much more profitable to settle for a high traffic zone of usual players instead of looking for gatherers. But yeah, this set costs something if it's atleast t6, but still not alot, it's not something that makes gatherer worth killing. And what do guilds require is a separate topic tbqh.2. Don't give them those ideas. Devs already want to introduce arenas, instead of removing expeditions from the game. Those mistakes may become deadly for the game very fast. The solution is simple - give people solo and small scale content. Until recently it was only possible to get chests for decent profit, but now they're nerfed. They give nothing now, they're not worth farming, just a nice bonuses you occasionally find while you farm, but in this case farming mobs in dungeons is alot better than looking for mob camps. Give people something worth doing in the open world and they'll do it, so far there is no reason to do anything in the open world. Big groups split 5 people each and farm expeditions because of no risks, solo players farm dungeons because of good fame farming speed and little risks, redzone dungeons are for retards, since the competition won't allow you to farm well most of the time, and all black zone dungeons worth something are populated with full t7.1, 7.2 experienced teams with good mastery levels who run just below the zerg indication thresold.
      First step to make people go into open world would be to delete expeditions from the game.
      And after people will have something to do in the open world, it should be made possible to catch people solo, so people won't gave to gather into groups of 5+ people. For starters - mounts should disappear on any activity and it should take much more time to mount up to prevent double dash+mounting up.

      And the paragraph about looting and executing is irrelevant.

      The game seems dead because solo guys farm runnel sink dungeons, groups farm expeditions, good guild groups farm bz dungeons, plebs run red zone dungeons in crowds of 20 people, competing against 6 more of such groups, killing one skeleton every 5 minutes. After the patch all people who try to PvP in the open world, running around for 2 hours before finding a target, will go to instanced arena and the open world will die as it has nothing to offer.

      At this time tho to revive the game it would take a 100+iq guy among the devs to understand the problem, which may be not the case seeing how they try to balance their combat so far.
      If they can't remove damage from damn fling because they don't understand what's wrong with this, I don't see how we can count on them understanding the ways to make their economy as game's social part work decently.
      I agree that Expeditions need to be nerfed. Probably not entirely removed since it is useful for people with low amounts of time available. However, such a "safe" activity should not be so rewarding. Reduce fame, silver, and increase knockdown durability loss to 15%-20%.

      I think I did a few T5 group expeditions during the first week or two after launch and I have not been back (boring, repetitive, and PuG's can often be slow / get me killed).

      I miss chest camps as a bonus while gathering. They only needed to nerf either silver or the spawn rate, not both. It felt good to gather in BZ hit a chest camp for 8k - 11k silver and know that a good chunk of my equipment was already covered by un-lootable silver.

      Other than some nerfs to Expedition rewards, I feel like Red and Black zone should be more rewarding (i.e buff Red / Black vs heavy nerfs). Currently the fame for gathering a T5 node in Red / Black is the same as if I were to gather it in Yellow, which I find to be......counterintuitive. Red and Black are about 2 and 3 orders of magnitude more dangerous than Yellow (100% of gear vs 10% knockdown is 1, frequency of gank attempts in Red / Black, and no reputation issues in Black accounts for remaining danger increase).

      Either add a Fame bonus to gather gains in red / black or (black only) increase max node capacity / regen rate. For chest camps, change the respawn to 20 - 30 minutes and double / triple the current silver (which is still lower than they used to be, but good enough to be worthwhile).

      Maybe add random NPC crafting stations (random, but fixed position while spawned or maybe a wandering cart; limited spawn time: 2 - 4 hours?) to open world BZ's. Not marked on map. Have non-focus return rate = 25 - 30%, Focus return rate = 52 - 55%? Maybe even much higher return rate if the NPC has limited crafting capacity. 50% bonus to Fame gains if you refine / craft there. Adds a point of interest for gathers / crafters and a gank opportunity for PvP'ers.
    • Belwilliam schrieb:

      I agree that Expeditions need to be nerfed. Probably not entirely removed since it is useful for people with low amounts of time available. However, such a "safe" activity should not be so rewarding. Reduce fame, silver, and increase knockdown durability loss to 15%-20%.
      I think I did a few T5 group expeditions during the first week or two after launch and I have not been back (boring, repetitive, and PuG's can often be slow / get me killed).

      I miss chest camps as a bonus while gathering. They only needed to nerf either silver or the spawn rate, not both. It felt good to gather in BZ hit a chest camp for 8k - 11k silver and know that a good chunk of my equipment was already covered by un-lootable silver.

      Other than some nerfs to Expedition rewards, I feel like Red and Black zone should be more rewarding (i.e buff Red / Black vs heavy nerfs). Currently the fame for gathering a T5 node in Red / Black is the same as if I were to gather it in Yellow, which I find to be......counterintuitive. Red and Black are about 2 and 3 orders of magnitude more dangerous than Yellow (100% of gear vs 10% knockdown is 1, frequency of gank attempts in Red / Black, and no reputation issues in Black accounts for remaining danger increase).

      Either add a Fame bonus to gather gains in red / black or (black only) increase max node capacity / regen rate. For chest camps, change the respawn to 20 - 30 minutes and double / triple the current silver (which is still lower than they used to be, but good enough to be worthwhile).

      Maybe add random NPC crafting stations (random, but fixed position while spawned or maybe a wandering cart; limited spawn time: 2 - 4 hours?) to open world BZ's. Not marked on map. Have non-focus return rate = 25 - 30%, Focus return rate = 52 - 55%? Maybe even much higher return rate if the NPC has limited crafting capacity. 50% bonus to Fame gains if you refine / craft there. Adds a point of interest for gathers / crafters and a gank opportunity for PvP'ers.
      Well first of all I don't whine about not being able to participate in a professional powerlifting competition because I don't have enough strength. People who have no time should not whine about not being able to compete with the best players who have more than 10 years experience of various MMORPGs on top of being able to sleep 2.5 hours a day, putting their piss bottles one next to another month after month, They'll never compete with those. So if you see a "no time" argument you can spit in this guy's face. Let this granpa go take care of his kids or go fishing or something. If we take WoW for example (people love WoW), everyone loved vanilla, everyone loved BC. No one loved later expansions because content became easier to get to by casual players. The further you progress, the harder it should be to get to higher tier content. This way hardcore players will feel rewarded, they'll feel like they've achieved something, and casual player will feel like they have so much more content ahead, that they'll keep being interested in the game.

      With that said, it doesn't matter if they'll have special content for them or not it'd be still impossible for them to compete with better and more committed players, however, they still can play in the open world just like everybody else. Even playing 1 hour a day is enough to do solo dungeons which are not that bad tbqh.

      If devs, with those expeditions, want them to participate in a TeAmAcTiViTy - the trend which I deeply despise, it should be known, that you won't even remember names of those tanks who can't hold aggro of one mob, and healers who want to level their t3 fire staff. You'll be happy that this boring zero risk shit is over and forget it, then probably move to the next one just because you need fame and you're too pussy to go to the open world. It's not "team activity" you won't "get a group", "have some nice plays as a team" or whatever. You'll be put into one boring instance with people you'll most likely hate 2 minutes into this run, and then be puked out back into the city. It gives players no feel of socialization, no feel of achievement, nothing. And decent teams speedrunning through them is a whole different story, but at the same time it's just another argument for these expeditions to be removed. They may be turned into some rifts in black zones which spawn randomly, in this case they should be harder and more rewarding. "Rift hunting" would appear as a result, with 5 man teams roaming the black zone. Why not?

      There are different ways to find a compromise on expeditions, but it's not needed. All instanced content must be removed for the game to be healthy. If some guys will leave with expeditions removed - good. Those would leave anyway in a couple of months tops.

      Next, fame increase is not an option as people are already running with full lvl100 masteries and t8 sets. As soon as players get to the endgame content, which is the best gear in sandbox games, they'll feel like they've "completed the game", will get bored and will start to leave. Higher tiers should be very, very hard to achieve, as it is now, 7,2 is a usual view already. We'd have people rolling full t8.3 already if 75% of the playerbase didn't leave the game by now.

      What I agree with tho, is gathering bonus. It should be even smaller in yellow zones, but it's silly that it's exactly the same as in black/red ones. It should get the same bonus like combat fame.
    • Dethcord schrieb:

      Belwilliam schrieb:

      I agree that Expeditions need to be nerfed. Probably not entirely removed since it is useful for people with low amounts of time available. However, such a "safe" activity should not be so rewarding. Reduce fame, silver, and increase knockdown durability loss to 15%-20%.
      I think I did a few T5 group expeditions during the first week or two after launch and I have not been back (boring, repetitive, and PuG's can often be slow / get me killed).

      I miss chest camps as a bonus while gathering. They only needed to nerf either silver or the spawn rate, not both. It felt good to gather in BZ hit a chest camp for 8k - 11k silver and know that a good chunk of my equipment was already covered by un-lootable silver.

      Other than some nerfs to Expedition rewards, I feel like Red and Black zone should be more rewarding (i.e buff Red / Black vs heavy nerfs). Currently the fame for gathering a T5 node in Red / Black is the same as if I were to gather it in Yellow, which I find to be......counterintuitive. Red and Black are about 2 and 3 orders of magnitude more dangerous than Yellow (100% of gear vs 10% knockdown is 1, frequency of gank attempts in Red / Black, and no reputation issues in Black accounts for remaining danger increase).

      Either add a Fame bonus to gather gains in red / black or (black only) increase max node capacity / regen rate. For chest camps, change the respawn to 20 - 30 minutes and double / triple the current silver (which is still lower than they used to be, but good enough to be worthwhile).

      Maybe add random NPC crafting stations (random, but fixed position while spawned or maybe a wandering cart; limited spawn time: 2 - 4 hours?) to open world BZ's. Not marked on map. Have non-focus return rate = 25 - 30%, Focus return rate = 52 - 55%? Maybe even much higher return rate if the NPC has limited crafting capacity. 50% bonus to Fame gains if you refine / craft there. Adds a point of interest for gathers / crafters and a gank opportunity for PvP'ers.
      Well first of all I don't whine about not being able to participate in a professional powerlifting competition because I don't have enough strength. People who have no time should not whine about not being able to compete with the best players who have more than 10 years experience of various MMORPGs on top of being able to sleep 2.5 hours a day, putting their piss bottles one next to another month after month, They'll never compete with those. So if you see a "no time" argument you can spit in this guy's face. Let this granpa go take care of his kids or go fishing or something. If we take WoW for example (people love WoW), everyone loved vanilla, everyone loved BC. No one loved later expansions because content became easier to get to by casual players. The further you progress, the harder it should be to get to higher tier content. This way hardcore players will feel rewarded, they'll feel like they've achieved something, and casual player will feel like they have so much more content ahead, that they'll keep being interested in the game.
      With that said, it doesn't matter if they'll have special content for them or not it'd be still impossible for them to compete with better and more committed players, however, they still can play in the open world just like everybody else. Even playing 1 hour a day is enough to do solo dungeons which are not that bad tbqh.

      If devs, with those expeditions, want them to participate in a TeAmAcTiViTy - the trend which I deeply despise, it should be known, that you won't even remember names of those tanks who can't hold aggro of one mob, and healers who want to level their t3 fire staff. You'll be happy that this boring zero risk shit is over and forget it, then probably move to the next one just because you need fame and you're too pussy to go to the open world. It's not "team activity" you won't "get a group", "have some nice plays as a team" or whatever. You'll be put into one boring instance with people you'll most likely hate 2 minutes into this run, and then be puked out back into the city. It gives players no feel of socialization, no feel of achievement, nothing. And decent teams speedrunning through them is a whole different story, but at the same time it's just another argument for these expeditions to be removed. They may be turned into some rifts in black zones which spawn randomly, in this case they should be harder and more rewarding. "Rift hunting" would appear as a result, with 5 man teams roaming the black zone. Why not?

      There are different ways to find a compromise on expeditions, but it's not needed. All instanced content must be removed for the game to be healthy. If some guys will leave with expeditions removed - good. Those would leave anyway in a couple of months tops.

      Next, fame increase is not an option as people are already running with full lvl100 masteries and t8 sets. As soon as players get to the endgame content, which is the best gear in sandbox games, they'll feel like they've "completed the game", will get bored and will start to leave. Higher tiers should be very, very hard to achieve, as it is now, 7,2 is a usual view already. We'd have people rolling full t8.3 already if 75% of the playerbase didn't leave the game by now.

      What I agree with tho, is gathering bonus. It should be even smaller in yellow zones, but it's silly that it's exactly the same as in black/red ones. It should get the same bonus like combat fame.

      Well, I don't think we're arguing with each other any more. A game I've played casually for 10+ years has been ruined by making it new-player friendly. With no way to excel via more effort / time, there is no point to play.


      My DPS in 4 / 4.1 can 2 to 3 shot most T6 mobs in a T6 BZ solo dungeon, thus getting about 350 - 400 fame in around 15-20 seconds (5-10 seconds per kill + waiting for E to come up for next mob). I only have to risk 12k - 20k in gear at this point which will be mostly covered by mob silver drops (unless I get ganked within a few minutes of entry).

      My "convenient" version of Expeditions to level my "T3" heal staff (actually is 4.1) is going solo to a Blue hellgate with my fire mage (5.1 gear mostly), killing the other player(s), swapping in the heal staff and then clearing the dungeon with Smite :)
      (or just quickly kill the rest of the trapped demons and chest and then restart with Fire again...depends on my mood).


      I made my open world crafting NPC into a full Suggestion since that would be interesting and if the focus return rate is high enough, worth risking getting ganked for. There needs to be a lot more points of interest on the maps (Black Zone maps; maybe some on Red).