Arenas done right.

  • Arenas done right.

    I think a lot of people will agree that the way SBI proposed to implement arenas is very un exciting. It is basically copy/pasting WOW's arena system. In fact it is even worse than that, even the crowd who DOES want a WOW like arena system is going to be disappointed because the rewards are only going to be cosmetic. Soon enough they will be asking for real rewards which of course is going to be difficult without breaking the economy, though the black market could help.

    What would be awesome and truly exciting would be an arena system that fits the sandbox style. Here is a proposition.

    There would be 2 kinds of arenas.

    First kind would be practice arenas, buildable on guild islands for a substancial amount of T4 to T6 ressources. They would allow guild to practice X vs X fights in a safe way. You could even imagine different arena sizes and huge arenas to practice 20 vs 20. Guilds should be able to invite other guilds or anyone to their arena for a practice session.

    The second kind of arenas are where it gets exciting. These arenas are built in red zones, each biome should have one arena. The arena should be separated from yellow zones by at least one or possibly 2 other red zones, you will understand why later.

    Tournaments should be periodically organized at each of these arenas, maybe daily or weekly or a few times a week. Tournaments would involve 5 v 5 teams, with possibly 20 v 20 also or other formats. Gladiator style melees could also be organized like every man for himself with some enraged animals interfering and the last man standing wins (but healers might be too OP for such a format to work, so you could possibly restrict it to some weapons only).

    There should be a limited number of tickets for sale to observe those fights. The cost should not be too big but that would be a nice silver sink that would allow some extra silver to be generates as a reward for the winners. Limit the amount of observers to 50 or 100 per match so observers can actually be displayed and are free to move around the arena to observe what is going on inside. Maybe do not display the observers for the actual fighters to prevent any extra lag.

    Matches should be non deadly, defeated opponents are simply knocked out.The winner of each match would be granted royal sigils, possibly some tokens you could exchange for silver in the biome city or cosmetic rewards.

    BUT

    After winning a match, the winning team would be presented with 2 choices : take the reward from the king and go away OR take the reward, kill off the defeated team to loot their gear. If they chose to do so, some royal guards could intervene, the winning team would have to kill those guards. SBI could design guard fights to be somewhat challenging and more and more challenging in the latest stages of thr tournament. After the guards are defeated, the winning team would be allowed to leave the arena but would automatically be flagged criminal and possibly outlaw also. This means they would need to escape to the safety of a yellow zone or to a territory they control in the RZ nearby. This would give RZ clusters additionnal value. Of course there might be a horde of blue players waiting outside to chase them so they would need some invu bubble seconds to get a head start. Their guild or alliance could possibly decide to flag themselvea to help the team retreat and in some cases go crazy enough to slaughter the blue player crowd but the rep loss would be so huge that this would not happen to often.

    Anyway you can imagine how exciting these arena fights could be and the huge ZvZ chase that might follow.

    You could also keep a MMR for each team and limit each tournament to a MMR range to keep fights more balanced so the best teams would have to face each other and not crush less skilled teams every time.

    What do you guys think about this? I think this would be A LOT more fun than the currently proposed system.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Elarahis ().

  • Elarahis wrote:

    I think a lot of people will agree that the way SBI proposed to implement arenas is very un exciting. It is basically copy/pasting WOW's arena system. In fact it is even worse than that, even the crowd who DOES want a WOW like arena system is going to be disappointed because the rewards are only going to be cosmetic. Soon enough they will be asking for real rewards which of course is going to be difficult without breaking the economy, though the black market could help.

    What would be awesome and truly exciting would be an arena system that fits the sandbox style. Here is a proposition.

    There would be 2 kinds of arenas.

    First kind would be practice arenas, buildable on guild islands for a substancial amount of T4 to T6 ressources. They would allow guild to practice X vs X fights in a safe way. You could even imagine different arena sizes and huge arenas to practice 20 vs 20. Guilds should be able to invite other guilds or anyone to their arena for a practice session.

    The second kind of arenas are where it gets exciting. These arenas are built in red zones, each biome should have one arena. The arena should be separated from yellow zones by at least one or possibly 2 other red zones, you will understand why later.

    Tournaments should be periodically organized at each of these arenas, maybe daily or weekly or a few times a week. Tournaments would involve 5 v 5 teams, with possibly 20 v 20 also or other formats. Gladiator style melees could also be organized like every man for himself with some enraged animals interfering and the last man standing wins (but healers might be too OP for such a format to work, so you could possibly restrict it to some weapons only).

    There should be a limited number of tickets for sale to observe those fights. The cost should not be too big but that would be a nice silver sink that would allow some extra silver to be generates as a reward for the winners. Limit the amount of observers to 50 or 100 per match so observers can actually be displayed and are free to move around the arena to observe what is going on inside. Maybe so not display the observers for the actual fighters to prevent any extra lag.

    Matches should be non deadly, defeated opponents are simply knocked out.The winner of each match would be granted royal sigils, possibly some tokens you could exchange for silver in the biome city or cosmetic rewards.

    BUT

    After winning a match, the winning team would be presented with 2 choices : take the reward from the king and go away OR take the reward, kill off the defeated team to loot their gear. If they chose to do so, some royal guards could intervene, the winning team would have to kill those guards. SBI could design guard fights to be somewhat challenging and more and more challenging in the latest stages of thr tournament. After the guards are defeated, the winning team would be allowed to leave the arena but would automatically be flagged criminal and possibly outlaw also. This means they would need to escape to the safety of a yellow zone or to a territory they control in the RZ nearby. This would give RZ clusters additionnal value. Of course there might be a horde of blue players waiting outside to chase them so they would need some invu bubble seconds to get a head start. Their guild or alliance could possibly decide to flag themselvea to help the team retreat and in some cases go crazy enough to slaughter the blue player crowd but the rep loss would be so huge that this would not happen to often.

    Anyway you can imagine how these arena fights could be and the huge ZvZ chase that might follow.

    You could also keep a MMR for each team and limit each tournament to a MMR range to keep fights more balanced so the best teams would have to face each other and not crush less skilled teams every time.

    What do you guys think about this? I think this would be A LOT more fun than the currently proposed system.
    That actually sounds fun :) or they could implement a new cosmetic crafting tree line to make it so things are still player crafted and add a new cosmetic auction vendor to sell the items
  • Great ideas man! Far more immersive than what I forsee coming. Thogh I do think a knockdown only version should be in yellow zones with small group options, the beast battles, and the last man standing options. I think that would be a good stepping stone. I would love to see a view mode that allows viewers to see the whole battle at once (like have it far enough below the seating so the whole arena is visible).
  • Rewards have to be costemitcs. There is no work around this.

    Arena cannot have full loot. If arena includes any kind of full loot, open world pvp dies. Only gvg would stay alive.

    Arenas must be located inside cities. Having arenas located outside a city could bring many problems to open world pvp, like becoming safe places for people to hide in, becoming anoyances for people traveling near it etc.

    The way the Albion world works right now doesnt help arenas. the way the devs did them looks like the only way to make an arena without greatly affecting any other feature.
  • Holoin wrote:

    Rewards have to be costemitcs. There is no work around this.

    Arena cannot have full loot. If arena includes any kind of full loot, open world pvp dies. Only gvg would stay alive.

    Arenas must be located inside cities. Having arenas located outside a city could bring many problems to open world pvp, like becoming safe places for people to hide in, becoming anoyances for people traveling near it etc.

    The way the Albion world works right now doesnt help arenas. the way the devs did them looks like the only way to make an arena without greatly affecting any other feature.
    Did you actually read my post?

    I fail to understand how having some kind of full loot in the arena system I described would kill world PvP in any way. It is not like you could spam queue an arena like in the proposed system in the roadmap. There would only be a few daily matches going on every day in all arenas. If a new RZ was created for arenas it would not affect world PvP at all. The arena would simply be closed outside of match hours and during matches only participants and those with tickets to obs could get in and be safe inside while the match is going on. The impact on other features would be very small.
  • Holoin wrote:

    Rewards have to be costemitcs. There is no work around this.

    Arena cannot have full loot. If arena includes any kind of full loot, open world pvp dies. Only gvg would stay alive.

    Arenas must be located inside cities. Having arenas located outside a city could bring many problems to open world pvp, like becoming safe places for people to hide in, becoming anoyances for people traveling near it etc.

    The way the Albion world works right now doesnt help arenas. the way the devs did them looks like the only way to make an arena without greatly affecting any other feature.
    Development guided by this type of paradigm leads to a world devoid of content with no reason to use the open world. There is already little reason to use the open world lets not make it worse.

    This type of implementation is what we need across the board.
  • Elarahis wrote:

    Holoin wrote:

    Rewards have to be costemitcs. There is no work around this.

    Arena cannot have full loot. If arena includes any kind of full loot, open world pvp dies. Only gvg would stay alive.

    Arenas must be located inside cities. Having arenas located outside a city could bring many problems to open world pvp, like becoming safe places for people to hide in, becoming anoyances for people traveling near it etc.

    The way the Albion world works right now doesnt help arenas. the way the devs did them looks like the only way to make an arena without greatly affecting any other feature.
    Did you actually read my post?
    I fail to understand how having some kind of full loot in the arena system I described would kill world PvP in any way. It is not like you could spam queue an arena like in the proposed system in the roadmap. There would only be a few daily matches going on every day in all arenas. If a new RZ was created for arenas it would not affect world PvP at all. The arena would simply be closed outside of match hours and during matches only participants and those with tickets to obs could get in and be safe inside while the match is going on. The impact on other features would be very small.
    ita simple logic. In open world teres a high chance of full loot pvp being unfair + your preys escaping etc... In arena pvp, you will be guaranteed the same amount of oponents and allies(more fair) plus enemies wont escape to safe zones. That alone is enough to split the pvp population if the arena includes full loot drop.

    Anything that could split pvp even more is bad.
  • If the different arenas are arranged so that matches are set up at different times then assuming 10bfighters and 100 observers it means that 110 players would be removed from the world at a given time. That is not a big number of players. The arenas proposed by SBI in the roadmap are probably going to remove thousands.
  • Too complex and unconvinient. Make arenas simple, instanced, no loot and accissible from cities with party search.

    For anything else: give players tools to make the arena they like. Its supposed to be Sandbox game after all? If you want to host Tournaments, sell tickets and offer own rewards - you are able too (or should be).

    No one forbids player driven content - be it organising duelling league, arena tournaments with prizes, horse races, fashion contests whatever. However it should not be prioritized in expence of convenience/usability. Arenas are there for people to find fast and safe pvp. Making it less fast and less safe defeats the purpose. The practice arena`s on guild isle is good though.

    I wish the devs added more "sandbox" tools for players to play with though - actually customizable islands, ability to design own buildings, vendors, crafting books and vanity items, run taverns and stuff.

    So if you wished to make own tournament you`d:
    1) Buy an empty island and build a Colliseum there.
    2) Place your advertisement in cities Notice Boards for money, as well pay Herald NPCs to tell people who visit those cities about your upcomming tournaments.
    3) Sell at AH books named "Arena Visitor Ticket", "Arena Participant Ticket"
    4) At select date, give people who trade you ticket access to the isle.
    5) Commence the Tournament and provide the reward to winners.
    6) Pay Heralds to announce the winners in big cities.

    But alas, i am just dreaming. Albion is no sandbox.