The reason why 3 Second demount rule is not enough

  • @Tempei

    That is another good video right there...

    Basically, when a ganking group has the opportunity to initiate the cc nuke chain, there is no fight. I think this reality is very restrictive to the game, possibly non-viable on the medium term. With the current state of affairs, bzs will tend to become exclusive to a very specific type of players, with a very specific mentality - and all "eco-systems" need diversity.

    Anyway, it does not look good for small groups and solo players, and the re-mount cheese does not make it better.


    @Spankie

    I tend to agree with you. I am worried about the number of open world PvP encounters where a player has no chance to even use a single ability. No game can survive that.


    @Mardonius

    I don't know. Ganking adds flavor to the game: the sense of danger adds aliveness to your actions, and meaning to your achievements. But I do agree that we need a better balance, and probably a new perspective of what open world PvP should be. So, what you propose may be better than what we currently have (in terms of being viable to the game as a whole), but idk...

    Btw, there is a discussion on non-consensual PvP happening here.
  • If you remove the 3 second timer on demount. Then what will stop people abusing it to ride a mount into you, let you waste skills, then demount and immediately pop all his opener's on you while you wasted everything on the mount. Now add 30 more people to that equation.

    Do you understand why its a bad idea now? Just because your risk adverse and a carebear doesnt mean you should ask for a change that would literally upset the entire meta of pvp. At the moment people actually roam on foot, if it were to change it would just be mounted roams all over again. Why you want that cancer ill never know. The people that keep requesting this change are not very smart and have not thought of the consequences associated with it.
  • Mardonius wrote:

    Ganking shouldn't be possible, period. What possible purpose does it serve to allow multiple people to gang up on someone with him having next to zero chance of getting away?

    Ganking =/= PvP

    Asheron's Call, an old but excellent PvP MMO, gave everyone an opportunity to escape with a 3-4 second recall spell. So you could still kill people if you caught them unprepared but generally people who didn't want to fight could escape, and that is how it should be.
    um, don't go into BZ alone. not that hard of a concept. Stop trying to carebear a game. I don't understand that mentality.
  • Honestly the 3 second dismount is more than enough. I make huge profits gathering in the Mercia continent (skinner). You have to know the map and think about escape routes, always keep your horse close (t5 armored at least) and you will escape 4 out of 5 times.

    There will be times where you get fked over a couple of times but you will eventually make profit if you know what you are doing. Start by doing small runs only focusing on 5.1, 5.2 and 5.3 resources + and you will see the profit come. Also always have around 3-4 escape routes planned, standing on the edge of a map is risky business and not worth it if there aren't good resources.

    Have fun gathering buddy!
  • Tempei wrote:

    Now looking back at it , maybe would of lived if i just dashed out.But this just goes to show you can lock down someone to kingdom come, or maybe i should of have a better horse or something like that.
    Lol you died again because of bad luck. Or bad calls. yes - potentially you should have dashed out... or simply carried a Cleanse with you (on a helm). Sometimes you just get "outplayed" and accept and learn from it...

    That is if you wanna be a good player and not a total noob of an embarrassment. Otherwise keep complaining.

    (A few days ago I got "baited" by a player pretending to be AFK and lost like 2.5 mil worth of gear "biting" that bait), happens. Learned from it. Already replaced my gear.

    Mardonius wrote:

    Asheron's Call, an old but excellent PvP MMO, gave everyone an opportunity to escape with a 3-4 second recall spell. So you could still kill people if you caught them unprepared but generally people who didn't want to fight could escape, and that is how it should be.
    Yes, agreed - but you could not "recall out" if you were combat tagged. Otherwise it was being abused, and those portal gems that allowed ppl to instaltly "recall" while still loading into a dungeon had to be nerfed - as they were the biggest issue of people "escaping" PVP, which was ruining the game...
  • Mardonius wrote:

    Ganking shouldn't be possible, period. What possible purpose does it serve to allow multiple people to gang up on someone with him having next to zero chance of getting away?

    Ganking =/= PvP

    Asheron's Call, an old but excellent PvP MMO, gave everyone an opportunity to escape with a 3-4 second recall spell. So you could still kill people if you caught them unprepared but generally people who didn't want to fight could escape, and that is how it should be.
    I suggest you find yourself another game , theres already to many carebears in here.
  • Haha it's not the problem ^^ but well , it's just a lot of bunch kids angry to don't have their toy or to be afraid to lack something :D But it was good lessons and lot of ideas has been taken :) Like the real market rules, i tried something, no public, nothing cause of this so i'll keep best ideas for my kick project ^^ soon reached ! Was fun dude ! See you on next game.... Keep whinning you're so good for that ;)
  • Mardonius wrote:

    What exactly is the point in going to Black zones if you have no way of escaping a Zerg, even if you are on a horse? Might as well have a bolt of lightning randomly kill you. How fun would that be?
    Thats exactly the point - the chance of lighting killing you is 100%, the chance of dying in BZ is not 100% - not matter how much salt all the "failhards" try to add to it... there is always a chance of escaping (or not going to that specific zone) if you're good and you know what you're doing and you did your homework...

    Mardonius wrote:

    Asheron's Call, an old but excellent PvP MMO, gave everyone an opportunity to escape with a 3-4 second recall spell. So you could still kill people if you caught them unprepared but generally people who didn't want to fight could escape, and that is how it should be.
    Funny thing is that - if you were in combat (even if you "did not consent to PVP" and were tagged by someone with an attack) - you would not be able to recall for like 30 sec... that was the balancing factor in Asheron's Call. Not "everyone" got an opportunity to escape (or rather recall) - you had to work for it, in order to escape...

    And then those stupid gamebreaking gems got nerfed, which allowed you to "recall out" while you were still loading inside the portal and were "invulnerable", because DEVs knew how gamebreaking for PVP those were...

    So at least if you try to preach - don't spread misinformation ;)
  • Eodis wrote:

    Get a real mount first.
    this. Is that a t3 mount in that video? -_-

    In that exact scenario, you never wouldvhave been dismounted on an armoured horse.

    Not saying you never get dismounted on a armoured horse mind, but i do feel the risk vs reward when it comes to mounts is working fine. Spend more on the mount and you have a better chance of escape.
  • Captainrussia wrote:

    Mardonius wrote:

    What exactly is the point in going to Black zones if you have no way of escaping a Zerg, even if you are on a horse? Might as well have a bolt of lightning randomly kill you. How fun would that be?
    Thats exactly the point - the chance of lighting killing you is 100%, the chance of dying in BZ is not 100% - not matter how much salt all the "failhards" try to add to it... there is always a chance of escaping (or not going to that specific zone) if you're good and you know what you're doing and you did your homework...

    Mardonius wrote:

    Asheron's Call, an old but excellent PvP MMO, gave everyone an opportunity to escape with a 3-4 second recall spell. So you could still kill people if you caught them unprepared but generally people who didn't want to fight could escape, and that is how it should be.
    Funny thing is that - if you were in combat (even if you "did not consent to PVP" and were tagged by someone with an attack) - you would not be able to recall for like 30 sec... that was the balancing factor in Asheron's Call. Not "everyone" got an opportunity to escape (or rather recall) - you had to work for it, in order to escape...
    And then those stupid gamebreaking gems got nerfed, which allowed you to "recall out" while you were still loading inside the portal and were "invulnerable", because DEVs knew how gamebreaking for PVP those were...

    So at least if you try to preach - don't spread misinformation ;)
    First of all the chance of dying to a bolt of lightning, directly striking you, is close to 100%. Now the chance of it striking you directly is much less but that is the same with BZ ganking. However iff you get spotted by a Zerg then you will by all likelyhood die. I have seen just three gankers on direwolves easily unmount people on even a T7 armored horse. So it is a myth that you can always escape gankers, provided that the gankers know what they are doing.

    Regarding, Asheron's Call, I don't know when you played the game but for the first 3-4 years from release there certainly was no period where you couldn't recall. Maybe that was added later due to ganker's demand.

    So I am not trying to spread misinformation, you slanderer, for the 3-4 years I played Asheron's Call, everyone had the recall spell and everyone could use it at all times which is not gamebreaking. It is called consensual PvP in a sandbox MMO and it worked very well because in that game, territory control was exercised by people who could physically take over a place, which you certainly couldn't if you recalled out. It is only gankers that, for obvious reasons, want to be able to kill people who don't want to fight back and give them little chance to escape.

    However territorial PvP is not about killing your opponent, it is about driving your opponent out and take over territories. Those who were strong, or brave, stays and fight and those who are too weak, escape to fight another day. Ganking, on the other hand, is about fighting people at a disadvantage, killing them and take their stuff. Which is more like robbery and murder rather than military conquest.
  • Mardonius wrote:

    Regarding, Asheron's Call, I don't know when you played the game but for the first 3-4 years from release there certainly was no period where you couldn't recall. Maybe that was added later due to ganker's demand.
    Yeah first 3 years, all games are different, that fix was added much later on, in 2008ish. Not because "gankers" demanded it (well maybe they did, who knows?) but because it was an obvious oversight and was a major design balancing decision.

    Mardonius wrote:

    So it is a myth that you can always escape gankers, provided that the gankers know what they are doing.
    Its also a "myth" that you can never escape the gankers. Its not all black and white - its shades of grey (I already said this in a diff post)... you win some - you lose some... Thank god it all depends on skill and circumstances rather then on a definite binary live/die mechanic as everyone is so foolishly crying about...
  • The solution is actually pretty easy.
    But it requires a good community so it is probably not going to happen.
    We all seem to be one extreme or the other.

    1. The path well traveled will have bandits laying in wait. This is AGE old wisdom.
    2. The community -could- rally up and put the zealous PvPers in their place.
    3. Travel in groups. Trip your buddy so you survive. (Seriously, animals group together to increase their OWN chance for survival... they hope someone else gets mauled first.)
    4. The community -could- rally up and put the zealous PvPers in their place. (Wait, did I type that already? This must be a mistake. Or a point?)

    Jerks will always exist. They existed in Ultima Online. Prior to carebear land you actually had friendly Reds who made it a point to go after the jerks who would harass someone. But keep in mind this was limited to when they targeted someone over and over, or opened portals for young players with an ambush waiting on the other side. (Sometimes players, often monsters.) Friendly reds continued to exist after the division of the pvp/pve lands but far less.


    Yes, groups of players vs little ol you is 'unfair'. But honor has never been required and rarely enforced in PvP. It is up to us to keep it from becoming toxic, not the developers or the game mechanics. People will always find a way to be 'cheap'. People will always complain when they get waylaid en-route hither or yonder.
  • You are going to need another reason once they implement the dismount disappear attack XD
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  • 1) Anyway the ONLY thing who can be GOOD, it's IN CASE OF YOUR MOUNT KILL > Defense mode then 0sec Cooldown..... After do as you want ^^ But 2v1 is not easy from start & with 3sec CD before skill usable >.> Just Extreme Hardcore mode triggered :D

    2) Also some special mount who can get shield or other to flee in case of mobs running/hit
    OR Make losing -5/10% of your speed boost per hit (10 make 4 hits before losing the speed increase, in case of horses run combined with 3sec CD on Dismount(not kill) can be enough if you know how to run zigzag) can be also a good idea.

    The post was edited 3 times, last by Meliandah ().

  • Im going to have to agree with some people making bad plays,

    hell I make bad plays 100% of the time, im horrible in here when it comes to full loot, full loot gives me anxiety and panic so I can't ever think right,

    The last encounter I escape by pure dumb luck...... and im positive my assailant.. remembers

    I think 4-5 people came at me, one who saw me [none hostile] fibering in t6, [this wasn't long ago probably 3 days ago]

    he gave my location as I saw from 0 hostile to 4 instantly I knew I needed to get faster to the exist [and I knew it was ganking time because the none hosilte was riding behind me and if my paranoia taught me something is that I don't trust ANYONE AROUND ME even if you are glory and acting nice lol, so I knew it was bad if I didn't go another route from the one he is pushing me]...

    Here is the dumb crap of my fault,

    Like a dumbass [like everytime on my ox but this time on my armor horse] I turned for 1 second just 1 second to take a screen shot of them, and that one second was enough for them to do this DASH thingy, and take away my gallop, after that they dismounted, but before they dismounted my brain turned retarded and could never think right...

    I got dismounted and did my first invicible potion, some how that didn't work cause I still reappeared, did my second one [magic pollen] than did ambush, waited to calm my self but my heart rated beated to fast, inside ambush I did path of rethereal [might have spelled the name wrong] that allow me to dash in invisibility and than run faster for 75% speed..

    I got out with 1 bar and mounted and went the long path [to carleon instead of the yellow zone since the block that exist].....

    Here the funny part, I had greater staff nature,

    thinking right would be, living armor, protection of nature and dot 2 times of hots,, ambush and get heal while invisibility, path of rethereal, hot for a third time and get away......

    IF I was an angry kid I would come to the forum and qq about dying XD, and in the end it was all my fault [I never returned again lol]

    I also died 3 times. 1 of them naked to test the population between morning, midday and nights, the first time which I died and lost 600k worth of silver [do to overweight] and the third one with stag over weight which I went the wrong path and got dismounteded by a dodo bird [terror bird]....

    I never came to the forum to bitch but I quitted and use the silver to hire a bounty [bounter ask with all that silver why not just buy another gear and I said I want to take a break from the game but I want the person killed XD]... came back from quitting and here im.... S0o0o0o never once bitched that I died, the only thing you will see is a post of me trying to hire a bounty XD

    If you died an it's your fault, please own up to it -.-
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    Random dungeon https://bit.ly/2L5TxnS
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    Arena https://bit.ly/2ZKD3or
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    HGguidance https://bit.ly/2Ymu1gs