Kicked for no reason and the Dev's don't care

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    • If you want to take your time and do things, then join up with an overworld party, and let them know that you're farming fame and want to punch through your masteries. Lots of people in the game will understand that, and will extend the gesture for you. We're not oiled machines who just crank out dungeon runs eight hours a day, seven days a week (Well... Most of us). We all step in your friend's shoes, and we know the grind.

      That being said... By signing up for an expedition, you're agreeing to throw yourself into a session where you will be explicitly bound to a role that you need to complete. You're agreeing to have a time-limit to finish the expedition, regardless of what it takes. And, most importantly: You're being paired up with people who, for the most part, just want to finish the dungeon as soon as possible so they can get their sigils/silver and go do something else. In expeditions, people don't have time, and don't want to spend the time playing patty-cake patty-cake and babysitting their straggler of a Tank/Healer while they putz about on their destiny board to figure out what they want to do with their skills. If you're the tank? They need you to pull/stun/do whatever it is you do to prevent the enemies from attacking the party. If you're a healer? They need you to be on your A-Game and make sure no one drops. The inattention of either role means that the whole party can not progress to finish the dungeon. And some people simply do not have the time to spend waiting on a random straggler.

      Fact is: In a Pub match that will auto-fill necessary roles... Everyone is disposable. You're a bad tank? No problem; We'll kick you and find another tank. You won't heal one of the DPS guys because you don't like their name/alliance/gear? The rest of the group has the right to kick you for being an insurmountable shitlord. You're playing with your menus instead of beating down the mobs right before the boss? Yer ootta hurr!

      Yes; It's bullshit that some people won't budge and let you hang around for ten seconds to boost a mastery level. It's bullshit that I can potentially be kicked because of my guild or the alliance my guild decided to be a part of. It's bullshit that I can get kicked because, instead of wearing a Guardian Chest, I wear Royal, or that I use a Double Blade for consistent interrupts instead of a shield and some other weapon. Public matches are full of petty, spiteful people who will make it a point to ruin the gameplay of those around them, simply because they can. (The cloth wearing DPS in my last expedition deliberately charged ahead of me again and again to aggro the mobs and force me to use my R to bring them onto me, then tried to insist that I wasn't doing my role as a tank. Fortunately, the rest of my group were bros, let him get absolutely owned when he tried rushing again, then kicked him once he dropped. But that isn't the standard interaction, and you shouldn't expect it to be).

      If you want a competent, reasonable group that will help you along with your board and mastery progress... Find a guild, or join up with an overworld party. Don't rely on expeditions for all that. The people in them don't have time for it, and their reasons for being in an expedition are wildly different than your own.

      EDIT: And, regardless of what I said above, I need to address your attitude: I don't care if you're right. I don't care if I'm absolutely, abhorrently wrong and do not know what I'm talking about. But if you're going to snark, snap, and talk down to everyone around you, I, and likely many others, will go out of their way to ignore your points and disregard what you have to say.

      You can disagree with us. But don't be an ass about it.
      T8 Alchemist
      T7 Cook
      T7 Herbalist

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von TheCatofTens () aus folgendem Grund: Addendum: Your attitude is bad and you should feel bad.

    • TheCatofTens schrieb:

      Fact is: In a Pub match that will auto-fill necessary roles... Everyone is disposable. You're a bad tank? No problem; We'll kick you and find another tank. You won't heal one of the DPS guys because you don't like their name/alliance/gear? The rest of the group has the right to kick you for being an insurmountable shitlord. You're playing with your menus instead of beating down the mobs right before the boss? Yer ootta hurr!
      I dont disagree with this, the part I disagree with is the 15 minute timer that is imposed on you and in fact you were also forced out of a group and didnt get to finish the expedition and get the end boss fame/cash and bonus. So you are already punished. 15 minutes is about how long it takes to run a well oiled expedition so you get a double punishment. Time lost on first one, cant do another one in time it takes to do one.

      In addition, as I stated earlier. This can be applied for ANY reason, and some that may not be your fault such as bad matchmaking making a plate wearing arcane user as a tank who then gets kicked because hes not actually a tank (matchmaking system messed up not him) and then hes got a penalty for no real reason.

      Remove the penalty, thats all.
    • Snorri schrieb:

      TheCatofTens schrieb:

      Fact is: In a Pub match that will auto-fill necessary roles... Everyone is disposable. You're a bad tank? No problem; We'll kick you and find another tank. You won't heal one of the DPS guys because you don't like their name/alliance/gear? The rest of the group has the right to kick you for being an insurmountable shitlord. You're playing with your menus instead of beating down the mobs right before the boss? Yer ootta hurr!
      I dont disagree with this, the part I disagree with is the 15 minute timer that is imposed on you and in fact you were also forced out of a group and didnt get to finish the expedition and get the end boss fame/cash and bonus. So you are already punished. 15 minutes is about how long it takes to run a well oiled expedition so you get a double punishment. Time lost on first one, cant do another one in time it takes to do one.
      In addition, as I stated earlier. This can be applied for ANY reason, and some that may not be your fault such as bad matchmaking making a plate wearing arcane user as a tank who then gets kicked because hes not actually a tank (matchmaking system messed up not him) and then hes got a penalty for no real reason.

      Remove the penalty, thats all.
      While I agree with your observations (Matchmaking system needs a lot of work. Not to mention that this whole "You are what you wear" and "Be anything" crap is nonsense when certain things simply have no way of synergizing), I didn't bring them up because I didn't feel like they were relevant to the OP's general statement. I'm not a fan of the fifteen minute timer. Never, ever have been. Not only does it allow an opening for abuse ("I don't like you. Enjoy this arbitrary time out me and my friends give you!"), but it's nothing more than an extra barrier to have to cross. Don't get me started how much of an annoyance it poses when the server is having hiccups and is booting everyone...

      Timer or not, people are going to be petty, spiteful brats for no other reason than because the game gives them the freedom to. The timer just gives insult to injury (Even if it was to prevent people from trolling expeditions by immediately starting another one after they got kicked for gimping a party)
      T8 Alchemist
      T7 Cook
      T7 Herbalist

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von TheCatofTens () aus folgendem Grund: Made a statement more generalized.

    • EmotionLord schrieb:

      The game has multiple languages and having something like learning points in the game means you have to take a second and deal with them no matter what situation you're facing.
      This is where you are wrong. A lot of people get that during expeditions and ppl do not really stop to spend them. You can either do it very quickly or just wait some time until the expedition is done and then check what you can spend LP on.

      People do not want to spend too much time waiting on others.

      My experience, on the other hand, is that if it is like 1 minute or something like that then most of the people do not have any issues with that. So, it probably took a lot longer for your friend to check what they could learn.

      You also meet people in expeditions who join and then stay at the start and don't say anything. That is why these vote kicks are necessary. When you join then you know that you are going to be occupied for a while. If you don't have the time for that then do not join. It is that simple.
    • Snorri schrieb:

      Holoin schrieb:

      You need to understand that expeditions are group activities. An expedition is no place to start navigating the destiny board to aply learning points. Why your friend did not waited till expedition was over?If your friend dint cared about the expedition, then the other members wont care about your friend. It was his fault. Also dont come here lying saying it was only 2-3 minutes of afk, im pretty sure he went afk for a lot more than that. The comunity is not stupid, we all know people come here crying and victimizing themself when the truth is another one.
      again, this is no reason that he should be punished with a cooldown, even if what you are saying were true.
      again I use the example of joining a group just out in the open world. If you kick someone because they are AFK, or because you simply don't like the way they smell, or some other petty rubbish there is no penalty everyone just moves on with gaming.

      This is the sole exception in AO that has a penalty attached to it to your gaming time where it is completely dependant on the whim and wish of other players. Any MMO that removes the ability to have control of your own character and outcomes that directly affect your gaming experience is bad design.
      The problem is that if they dont put a penalty, they will keep doing it. In order to keep player behavior in control, penalties need to be added.Being afk could cause your team to die. Also remember not everyone has unlimited time. Many players can olay only for an hour or so, they just log in to do 1 or 2 expeditions, an afk player could waste their valuable time. You need to understand these stuff, a penaly is needed.
    • Snorri schrieb:

      TheCatofTens schrieb:

      Fact is: In a Pub match that will auto-fill necessary roles... Everyone is disposable. You're a bad tank? No problem; We'll kick you and find another tank. You won't heal one of the DPS guys because you don't like their name/alliance/gear? The rest of the group has the right to kick you for being an insurmountable shitlord. You're playing with your menus instead of beating down the mobs right before the boss? Yer ootta hurr!
      I dont disagree with this, the part I disagree with is the 15 minute timer that is imposed on you and in fact you were also forced out of a group and didnt get to finish the expedition and get the end boss fame/cash and bonus. So you are already punished. 15 minutes is about how long it takes to run a well oiled expedition so you get a double punishment. Time lost on first one, cant do another one in time it takes to do one.
      In addition, as I stated earlier. This can be applied for ANY reason, and some that may not be your fault such as bad matchmaking making a plate wearing arcane user as a tank who then gets kicked because hes not actually a tank (matchmaking system messed up not him) and then hes got a penalty for no real reason.

      Remove the penalty, thats all.
      If you are marked as a tank in the expedition, you are expected to be a tank. It was your fault for going in with plate armor.

      This can be solved by alowing players to choose their role...but it is not somethin that needs to be adressed right now. There are other things more important.
    • EmotionLord schrieb:

      When you reach a learning point in your skill tree, it does not award you skill you "wasted" by not spending the skill point sooner. So he wanted to spend them as soon as possible and I understand

      This is where I think a missunderstanding of how LP works has made things worse.

      When you reach a "learning point reached", you can keep grinding, and the LP cost will decrease if you grind more.

      If you grind to a point between 2 LPs, spending LPs IME does tend to "wrap" that experience to the next level if there is one ( I often find after spending LP, I have fame, but it might not have always done this, there were fixes in Patch #1 that fixed fame overflow issues )

      If anything, its generally smarter to not spend LP, because LP regeneration is slow, and dungeon grinds will level you quite quickly, and as you level up, LP costs quickly get steeper. ( I'm already seeing 139 LP costs for some skills )

      The only time I'd even consider getting D-board up and spending LP in dungeon is if I felt I was underpowered and I needed a little edge.

      But its understandable that if you didn't realise all of the above, you might feel the need to sit in a dungeon needlessly frustrating your other team mates spending LP you don't actually need to spend.

      For the player in question, this is a real-world learning exercise, most of this game is: Very little is clearly documented and we're all just working it out as we go and teaching each other. Some of us learn the hard way.

      The other real world exercises here is learning you can be kicked for almost any reason, and then using that knowledge to focus on getting what needs to be done in dungeons so that you dont get kicked.

      Yes, there will be dicks, but this game is very much "adult mode", and there is very little in the way of mod babysitting and hand holding. This is loosely regulated anarchy and its up to the players to understand the social dynamics and regulate themselves within its reality.
    • Holoin schrieb:

      The problem is that if they dont put a penalty, they will keep doing it. In order to keep player behavior in control, penalties need to be added.Being afk could cause your team to die. Also remember not everyone has unlimited time. Many players can olay only for an hour or so, they just log in to do 1 or 2 expeditions, an afk player could waste their valuable time. You need to understand these stuff, a penaly is needed.
      Indeed. People could also conciously abuse this mechanic to get through farming a dungeon 90%, and then kick out some players so they could fast re-do the dungeon without dungeon-penalty.

      So the penalty should be at most reduced, not removed. ( And potentially the penalty should scale vs time spent in dungeon, but I haven't worked that out yet, its messy )

      And maybe the penalty should stack so getting kicked once isn't much of a setback, but getting twice surely is.

      But a smarter way to pick your role and/or queue stats showing which roles are waiting and which roles are needed might help with keeping queues down.

      Queing tends to be made worse by being in a party, and sometimes getting one person to go and re-gear with a different role and then re-queuing can get you from a 15 minute wait to "instant expedition, lol"

      Cos usually its just that one role that nobody does that is holding you back.
    • Ithan schrieb:

      Im farming T6 expedition - sometimes solo, sometimes with guild. Votekick is the only tool for stubborn player who cant understand that going with T4.0 gear is not welcome here, when we are speed clearing. (Best dude was T3 ice staff + T3 tome and full plate T4).

      Dont afk, dont go undergeared, dont trashtalk and you will be perfectly fine.


      And punishment when kicked should be 2h+ so people will learn to not waste time.
      what a bunch of bullshit. i got kicked from a 4 stack for no reason once. when you get kicked there should be no penalty. period.
    • Toastbr0t schrieb:

      Ithan schrieb:

      Im farming T6 expedition - sometimes solo, sometimes with guild. Votekick is the only tool for stubborn player who cant understand that going with T4.0 gear is not welcome here, when we are speed clearing. (Best dude was T3 ice staff + T3 tome and full plate T4).

      Dont afk, dont go undergeared, dont trashtalk and you will be perfectly fine.


      And punishment when kicked should be 2h+ so people will learn to not waste time.
      what a bunch of bullshit. i got kicked from a 4 stack for no reason once. when you get kicked there should be no penalty. period.
      There is always a reason for getting kicked. I personally have never been kicked and always with 4 strangers on expeditions.Now, I have asked for votes to kick some people, as I said, time is valuable to many players including me, and if theres a guy making us waste time(by being afk or a tank not tanking or a healer not doing his.job correctly) then I proceed to make a kick vote. I dont have a lot of time to waste.

      The penalty makes sure such people takes the expeditions seriously. If you dont take it seriously then you will be kicked.

      I do agree penalty needs to be toned down depending on how far you are on the dungeon.
    • Holoin schrieb:

      Toastbr0t schrieb:

      Ithan schrieb:

      Im farming T6 expedition - sometimes solo, sometimes with guild. Votekick is the only tool for stubborn player who cant understand that going with T4.0 gear is not welcome here, when we are speed clearing. (Best dude was T3 ice staff + T3 tome and full plate T4).

      Dont afk, dont go undergeared, dont trashtalk and you will be perfectly fine.


      And punishment when kicked should be 2h+ so people will learn to not waste time.
      what a bunch of bullshit. i got kicked from a 4 stack for no reason once. when you get kicked there should be no penalty. period.
      There is always a reason for getting kicked.
      if only
    • EmotionLord schrieb:

      Alright well, I think I did a good enough job explaining in my support ticket. The issue is clear and something that seems to be a problem in a game that has so many languages present. There are bound to be misunderstandings, but the design of the game shouldn't exacerbate these issues, but alleviate them. Without further adieu... Here are the pictures of my support tickets.
      Millennials :(
      Obs LoD - Master, LoD
      youtube.com/obslod
    • I don't see any problem with kicking someone who is afk or wasting the groups time. If the rest of the group votes and agrees then you have been removed by the team, deal with it. Don't waste people's time in an exped, no one appreciates that. If I am on an exped grind (which the majority of my fame and playtime has been) then I am there to knock them out asap and get to the next one. If you're not there for the same and the group is annoyed with your behavior then there's a decent chance they're going to boot you and get someone else in.

      Bottom line and point is if someone starts a vote and the group agrees then you have been removed by your team and they don't want you there. Think about what you did that caused the group to out you and do better next time.
      Holy Priest Healer - Rangers of Celidon
    • Aisar schrieb:

      I don't see any problem with kicking someone who is afk or wasting the groups time. If the rest of the group votes and agrees then you have been removed by the team, deal with it. Don't waste people's time in an exped, no one appreciates that. If I am on an exped grind (which the majority of my fame and playtime has been) then I am there to knock them out asap and get to the next one. If you're not there for the same and the group is annoyed with your behavior then there's a decent chance they're going to boot you and get someone else in.

      Bottom line and point is if someone starts a vote and the group agrees then you have been removed by your team and they don't want you there. Think about what you did that caused the group to out you and do better next time.
      again, you keep missing the point. Its not that people can kick you, sure, go ahead kick anyone you like, but don't apply a 15 minute penalty to that person because you didnt want them in your group for whatever reason. If they are a serial afk'er or trying to abuse the system they will simply be continually kicked, applying a 15 minute penalty only penalises those who actually did nothing to deserve penalty.
    • Snorri schrieb:

      Aisar schrieb:

      I don't see any problem with kicking someone who is afk or wasting the groups time. If the rest of the group votes and agrees then you have been removed by the team, deal with it. Don't waste people's time in an exped, no one appreciates that. If I am on an exped grind (which the majority of my fame and playtime has been) then I am there to knock them out asap and get to the next one. If you're not there for the same and the group is annoyed with your behavior then there's a decent chance they're going to boot you and get someone else in.

      Bottom line and point is if someone starts a vote and the group agrees then you have been removed by your team and they don't want you there. Think about what you did that caused the group to out you and do better next time.
      again, you keep missing the point. Its not that people can kick you, sure, go ahead kick anyone you like, but don't apply a 15 minute penalty to that person because you didnt want them in your group for whatever reason. If they are a serial afk'er or trying to abuse the system they will simply be continually kicked, applying a 15 minute penalty only penalises those who actually did nothing to deserve penalty.
      If there's no penalty other than the actual removal from the group then what's going to make bad players think twice about what they are doing?
      Holy Priest Healer - Rangers of Celidon