Why is crafting way faster than gathering?

  • Why is crafting way faster than gathering?

    I think we can all agree on that gathering is the most time consuming activity in the
    entire game. Refining and crafting on the other hand does only take a fraction of the time
    to create new things.

    Lets say I want to craft a t4 Weapon made out of steel.
    - crafting takes ~1s
    - refining ore to steel takes ~3 ( e.g. 24 steel bars)
    - gathering 48 of iron ore, can take somewhere from 1 - 5 min

    with higher tiers the disbalance in time investment is also way higher.
    So why is it like that?
  • If you'd have an iron deposit that has got 30 (+15 premium) ore in it. And you could continue farming without running around searching - you'd have (depense on your farming gear) the ore within 5-15 secs.

    With higher tiers its getting easier to farm the low materials at a much higher speed and with more profit out of 1 swing.
    While with refining and crafting you dont have this oppurtunity. Just with Focus you can get materials back, thats it.

    I also cant understand why you are complaining. ^^
    If you gather you're running around seeing the world of Albion, if you are refining or crafting you're just standing in the city crafting, seeing nothing exept the city.

    I also guess you are in a large guild (300 Member) and you have to gather, thats your role in that guild? Maybe instead of complaining about the 'times' you simply should switch your guild. xD
  • Irridon wrote:

    yeah, because nothing is as exciting as watching the crafting bar go excessively slowly while making your sword/whatever. it works fine as it is.
    I think the idea is not to make the bar go slower, but to adapt a "oven" concept. At least for refining this would make sense, without breaking the immersion too much. For the final crafting step i'm not sure, i have seen this in EvE/Star Wars Galaxies, where each crafting step took time, while you could do something else (no bars) and both are regarded to have good crafting systems. The main difference is immersion, since SWG/EvE are based on the concept of factory crafting, not that you individually create one item at a time, like a blacksmith.
  • I think OP raises a fair point.
    The reason crafting is completely useless for a lot of things is:
    1. It requires no time investment. Thus crafting is just flipping with an XP bar. Even the smallest margins make it worthwhile.
    2. Recipes are exceedingly simple. The value of 80% of the items can calculated in less than 10 seconds. Most items have NO variability.
    3. There is no upper cap. If anything is profitable a single person can crash the entire market in less than a day.
    Basically there is nothing in the game that makes crafting stand out from refining or even transforming. It's just another five second activity to flip mats that don't align with the product price.
    Calling oneself a crafter in this game is a joke.
  • Clarex wrote:

    If you'd have an iron deposit that has got 30 (+15 premium) ore in it. And you could continue farming without running around searching - you'd have (depense on your farming gear) the ore within 5-15 secs.
    Well of course that's the ideal scenario. You go to several full 6/6 iron nodes and can mine them in less than a
    minute. And with increasing mastery in mining the whole process is accelerated significantly.

    I think gathering is an exclusive activity whereas refining/crafting is not.
    Two people can mine the same node but only one will get the benefits eventually. Makes sense.
    But on a crafting station 10 people can use it at the same time and all of them get their output.

    In RL there's a limit of how much input a "crafting" station can process in any given moment.
    It also has a waiting time, there no one can craft anything (maintenance, cooldown, etc.)

    I see this problem of non-exclusivity of crafting stations in most towns. If someone has the lowest tax rate
    and enough food he can provide service to the whole market ( players who want to craft and pay for it).
    I do not understand why there's a need for other crafting stations at all.
  • Irridon wrote:

    yeah, because nothing is as exciting as watching the crafting bar go excessively slowly while making your sword/whatever. it works fine as it is.
    You could say the same for gathering. Nothing is more exciting than running around, waiting, running, waiting 1 h to gather 500 t4 ore.
    And then the time to get to and get back from the gathering location.

    Why should crafters / refiners not experience the same bliss gatherers do?
    It's really unfair in my opinion.
  • I think crafting should be bound by the same rules/restrictions as gathering. Something like
    • Exclusivity. A limitation of how many things can be crafted on a station in a given moment, the same as with
      node harvesting. Only 10 steel bars for a t4 station for instance, if there are 10 people the ones with the highest skill get
      their mats the other ones get nothing.
    • A cooldown timer which increases with higher tier materials/equipment just like with ressource nodes.
      Only several sec for t2/t3 ore , minutes for t4 ore, up to hours for higher tiers etc.
    • The time to craft should be at least the same or higher as the time to gather all of the base ressources.
    • Higher tier crafting stations can only be placed/accessed in yellow/red/black zones.
    Because crafting is the most carebear thing in the entire game.
    Thus leading to the same pleasures gatherers experience every f****ng single day
    • Running around the city/ different cities with an oxen full of ressources/mats going from one crafting station to the next in hope to find
      a chance to craft something
    • A degree of uncertainity + risk & reward. WIll I come back alive? Will I lose all my stuff? How much can I really craft in the available time? Maybe going to more dangerous places to craft more /better stuff?
    • Camping at stations with low tax rate
    • Upgrading stations /Building new stations to increase local/global production rates to a certain level
    • A need for specialized crafting gear. Why not? Makes sense that you can only refine titanium ore if you have the
      adequate equipment. If not it takes way longer. The same for weapons/ armor / farming / animal breeding etc.
      If you have it for gathering why not for everything else? A PK also need "special gear" to hunt and kill his prey.
    • If you want to craft t5+ equipment you have to face the danger of losing everything on you.
      Including the participation in the funniest sport in the world of Albion ganking gatherers 10v1.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by katysha ().

  • humanevil wrote:

    I think the real issue is not that it takes less time to craft than collect but gathering takes to long due to over populated areas and not enough nodes/areas
    That's one part of the issue but not the whole picture. I believe crafting has to follow the same rules/restrictions of gathering.
    Or gathering should have the same privilege as crafting. Both are part of the player driven economy and
    should be equally time consuming / risky / rewarding, ...

    Look at all the people running around with 10+ million fame in crafting after 4 weeks of launch
    able to make the best equipment in the entire game with little time investment.

    And at the same time people struggle to have 0,1 million in gathering. At least I do.
  • this exaxtly. Slowing down the crafting system would:
    1. Level out the market (to much supply not enough demand)
    2. Fix the fame surplus that crafters have over gatherers. I for example am t5 lumber jack and have 80k fame while a crafter can get 80k fame in a day.
    3. Have more immersion and make crafting a full time job (for those who want to be crafters).
    Just my 0.02.
  • I am 1000% against all of this. We used to have longer refining and crafting times in the game before they lowered them a few betas ago. It was horrible! Nothing like after a long day of gathering clicking the refine and then literally walking away from your computer to watch a TV show because it would take over 30 min to refine.

    The problem is you are only looking at this from all activities have to be even. For one they do not. You pick what you want to do and it's not always going to grant you as much fame as the next person doing something else if that really matters that much to you go do the other activity. Also you are not taking into consideration people who gather and craft. The last thing we want to do after gathering is watching a slow progress bar for no reason then have it be slow. Also buildings already have a crafting limit (how it be high enough for a guild or city)

    Again if you are really worried about fame gather and craft. If you don't want to that's your fault not the games because many people do this!
    Guild Leader of The Gods Of Albion. For those that don't need a leader but enjoy being gods together.
    We are gods among men
  • I agree, but with some different ideas. Gathering is somewhat a chore, but it is (for me) a pretty huge time sink in terms of gameplay. If gathering were any simpler, it'd take away a chunk of my gameplay. Which I could probably then fill with staring down contested chests and poking people at Hellgates. But, essentially, if it weren't for gathering there wouldn't be nearly as much to do or see in the world as the world itself isn't that interesting on its own.

    I do both gathering and crafting. I don't want to wait 5 minutes locked into crafting an item. But, if I could queue up a max quantity of bars/planks/whatever to refine at each station and then queue up a sword for 10 minutes of crafting time and then run off to do something else... that'd be cool. Come back later and queue up some more.

    I see refined products costing less than the raw materials because it requires 0 effort to refine something, takes mere seconds to do, and gives the refiner the fame for doing it themselves. You profit more in terms of silver (at least at the tiers I check) from selling the raw materials, but gain more fame and lose silver by refining and then selling.

    I think time investment is only a part of the problem, though. Refining and crafting are boring. There's nothing interesting about it and no personal touch. My "skill" as a crafter has nothing to do with the item that is output. The best I can hope for is creating something with a higher quality, which still requires 0 skill. We don't get any customization in how we craft an item. There's no way to add on hit effects, or a special spell, or a boost to the weapon's speed/dmg. It's all pre-generated stats with minimal variation from quality and each Tier from Adept onward are the same items. No personality, no labored love, no skill.
    "One tin soldier rides away..."
  • I really liked crafting in everquest and even more so in SWG. The fact that you had to find rare gear to be the best at crafting and still had a chance to blow it if you didn't use points or skills while crafting made it more interesting and gave you a chance to stand out. It also let you customize gear even more, like maybe one person wanted higher max damage for XX skill however someone else would want to sacrafice that max damage for attack speed for a different build. Maybe to a lesser degree in everquest but in SWG you could build a name people would look for. I do think those crafting systems are pretty amazing compared to what I did yesterday which was click one button and wait 3 minutes to make 2000 stone.
  • CrazySid wrote:

    I really liked crafting in everquest and even more so in SWG. The fact that you had to find rare gear to be the best at crafting and still had a chance to blow it if you didn't use points or skills while crafting made it more interesting and gave you a chance to stand out. It also let you customize gear even more, like maybe one person wanted higher max damage for XX skill however someone else would want to sacrafice that max damage for attack speed for a different build. Maybe to a lesser degree in everquest but in SWG you could build a name people would look for. I do think those crafting systems are pretty amazing compared to what I did yesterday which was click one button and wait 3 minutes to make 2000 stone.
    I missed EQ and SWG, but this is what I'd love to see.
    "One tin soldier rides away..."