Items need SLOWLY lowering max durability <FLAMESHIELD ON>

  • So would enchanted gear like 4.3 or 5.3 degrade at the same rate? The cost is so high no one would even think about crafting that kind of gear.

    Runescape has a fine economy, with full drop pvp AND pve. I dont see the problem. The market will settle out. There's always going to be people with a shit ton of money, every game has them.

    The game is fine as is.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Prismo ().

  • Prismo wrote:

    So would enchanted gear like 4.3 or 5.3 degrade at the same rate? The cost is so high no one would even think about crafting that kind of gear.
    But that is exactly what would make that type of gear more rare - as it should be. 4.3 is so common now, it's the only thing I use. It's equivalent to tier 7 but tier 7 is way more expensive. Effectively, there is no use for me to level up.

    4.3 should be far more expensive than tier 7, since it is much easier tow wear it.

    Lowering max durability over time simply increases the cost of items.
  • Honored wrote:

    Prismo wrote:

    So would enchanted gear like 4.3 or 5.3 degrade at the same rate? The cost is so high no one would even think about crafting that kind of gear.
    But that is exactly what would make that type of gear more rare - as it should be. 4.3 is so common now, it's the only thing I use. It's equivalent to tier 7 but tier 7 is way more expensive. Effectively, there is no use for me to level up.
    4.3 should be far more expensive than tier 7, since it is much easier tow wear it.

    Lowering max durability over time simply increases the cost of items.
    Did you not hear what I said. There's a game, that has existed for a very long time, that has the same kind of economy, that is going absolutely fucking great.

    Why change something that's going to level itself out. The game is like.. band new. Give it time. Just because you aren't making as much silver as your thought you could doesn't mean shit needs to be changed. There will ALWAYS be a demand for mats.
  • Prismo wrote:

    Honored wrote:

    Prismo wrote:

    So would enchanted gear like 4.3 or 5.3 degrade at the same rate? The cost is so high no one would even think about crafting that kind of gear.
    But that is exactly what would make that type of gear more rare - as it should be. 4.3 is so common now, it's the only thing I use. It's equivalent to tier 7 but tier 7 is way more expensive. Effectively, there is no use for me to level up.4.3 should be far more expensive than tier 7, since it is much easier tow wear it.

    Lowering max durability over time simply increases the cost of items.
    Did you not hear what I said. There's a game, that has existed for a very long time, that has the same kind of economy, that is going absolutely fucking great.
    Why change something that's going to level itself out. The game is like.. band new. Give it time. Just because you aren't making as much silver as your thought you could doesn't mean shit needs to be changed. There will ALWAYS be a demand for mats.
    I actually make more silver with the current system, that is not the issue. Currently since there are a lot of items in the market, it allows me to flip large quantities.

    With an additional item sink, there will be a lot more demand and a lot less items. Effectively increasing the margin, but reducing the volume.

    You are correct, there will always be a demand for mats. The issue at hand is exponentially decreasing prices for everyday items, that will eventually lead to tier 1-7 being worthless, and tier 8 being the only thing that is worth while.
  • Honored wrote:

    Prismo wrote:

    Honored wrote:

    Prismo wrote:

    So would enchanted gear like 4.3 or 5.3 degrade at the same rate? The cost is so high no one would even think about crafting that kind of gear.
    But that is exactly what would make that type of gear more rare - as it should be. 4.3 is so common now, it's the only thing I use. It's equivalent to tier 7 but tier 7 is way more expensive. Effectively, there is no use for me to level up.4.3 should be far more expensive than tier 7, since it is much easier tow wear it.
    Lowering max durability over time simply increases the cost of items.
    Did you not hear what I said. There's a game, that has existed for a very long time, that has the same kind of economy, that is going absolutely fucking great.Why change something that's going to level itself out. The game is like.. band new. Give it time. Just because you aren't making as much silver as your thought you could doesn't mean shit needs to be changed. There will ALWAYS be a demand for mats.
    I actually make more silver with the current system, that is not the issue. Currently since there are a lot of items in the market, it allows me to flip large quantities.
    With an additional item sink, there will be a lot more demand and a lot less items. Effectively increasing the margin, but reducing the volume.

    You are correct, there will always be a demand for mats. The issue at hand is exponentially decreasing prices for everyday items, that will eventually lead to tier 1-7 being worthless, and tier 8 being the only thing that is worth while.
    Well yeah. Its called progression. Why would someone want t4 if they can use t7? Why use t7 if you can use t8? That's just how games progress. Its not even close to powercreep right now due to being able to enchant gear.

    Like I said, I think we should give the game some time. Its new. Markets are going to be volatile. Things will level out, then when an appropriate amount of time has passed we can revisit the idea if things are going downward.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Prismo ().

  • Prismo wrote:

    Honored wrote:

    Prismo wrote:

    Honored wrote:

    Prismo wrote:

    So would enchanted gear like 4.3 or 5.3 degrade at the same rate? The cost is so high no one would even think about crafting that kind of gear.
    But that is exactly what would make that type of gear more rare - as it should be. 4.3 is so common now, it's the only thing I use. It's equivalent to tier 7 but tier 7 is way more expensive. Effectively, there is no use for me to level up.4.3 should be far more expensive than tier 7, since it is much easier tow wear it.Lowering max durability over time simply increases the cost of items.
    Did you not hear what I said. There's a game, that has existed for a very long time, that has the same kind of economy, that is going absolutely fucking great.Why change something that's going to level itself out. The game is like.. band new. Give it time. Just because you aren't making as much silver as your thought you could doesn't mean shit needs to be changed. There will ALWAYS be a demand for mats.
    I actually make more silver with the current system, that is not the issue. Currently since there are a lot of items in the market, it allows me to flip large quantities.With an additional item sink, there will be a lot more demand and a lot less items. Effectively increasing the margin, but reducing the volume.

    You are correct, there will always be a demand for mats. The issue at hand is exponentially decreasing prices for everyday items, that will eventually lead to tier 1-7 being worthless, and tier 8 being the only thing that is worth while.
    Well yeah. Its called progression. Why would someone want t4 if they can use t7? Why use t7 if you can use t8? That's just how games progress. Its not even close to powercreep right now due to being able to enchant gear.
    Yeah that makes sense, if you are that tier, but I was talking about the people who have not hit tier 8 and will be using items for a fraction of what they once cost. Items are going to become too cheap for people to care for.
  • While I don't necessarily disagree that this could be an interesting implementation to sink some items out of the game (by the way, there are some people that do PvP in those higher gear sets (Tea Party being one of them)) - my question would revolve around selling the items. If the total quality (out of 100%) drops to a new max of lets say 98% after getting knocked out 2x, is this item still vendor-able? Can we still put this item on the Auction House? If the answer is no, don’t you lose a bunch of the marketplace? PvPing and Looting becomes irrelevant since all of those dropped items in theory would lose durability. If you provide a way to scale an item to max durability, so that you can save your item or sell it, this solves nothing as you’re not sinking items and just providing a 2nd transaction to repair gear. I don’t think I see how this will work out unless we’re going to be okay with vendoring gear that has quality less than 100%.
  • Speakmore wrote:

    While I don't necessarily disagree that this could be an interesting implementation to sink some items out of the game (by the way, there are some people that do PvP in those higher gear sets (Tea Party being one of them)) - my question would revolve around selling the items. If the total quality (out of 100%) drops to a new max of lets say 98% after getting knocked out 2x, is this item still vendor-able? Can we still put this item on the Auction House? If the answer is no, don’t you lose a bunch of the marketplace? PvPing and Looting becomes irrelevant since all of those dropped items in theory would lose durability. If you provide a way to scale an item to max durability, so that you can save your item or sell it, this solves nothing as you’re not sinking items and just providing a 2nd transaction to repair gear. I don’t think I see how this will work out unless we’re going to be okay with vendoring gear that has quality less than 100%.
    The market place is a really big issue as is. I trade a lot, and I've pointed out many issues including DISAPPEARING ITEMS!

    As of right now, an Axe can have an attribute of quality, but that axe made of uncommon materials is considered a separate item, not just a characteristic bonus of the original. Due to this, it is extremely hard to purchase the type of item you're looking for. I end up placing orders for an item 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 5.3 as separate orders.
    Once you place 50 orders, however, any consecutive order SIMPLY DISAPPEARS! Until your previous 50 are completed or canceled, you will not be able to find any of your consecutive orders or cancel them in any way.

    To solve both of the issues in one go, they will need to consolidate the market into an item - focused UI. such that, after you search for an item, you will see an icon of the item in the top left, a short description of the item in the top, and then the rest of it's selectable attributes in the rest of the box. These attributes would need to include durability requirements and enchantment requirements just like quality of the item is is required currently. To prove my point, the black market is currently paying more for 7.0 items than it does for 7.1 items. This is just silly. If you want to sell a 7.1 item and a person wants to buy a 7.0 item, and your prices are agreeable, then this is a match!

    This would really make the marketplace a beautiful place to live.

    BUT that is an entirely separate issue.
  • I am totally against ruining gameplay and adding obnoxious equipment constraints to turn Albion Online into a more robust Auction House simulator. I craft. I adventure. I fight. Just progressing into T4 crafting is eating some serious time.

    I don't need this. And I don't want your hyper inflated Korean MMO pricing. It's a buyers market. That's how a good MMORPG market should look. The prices on gear and mat stacks are reasonable. T4 costs 11k silver for plate. What you wanna make? 30k? 40k?

    It's ridiculous. That's fine money. I'm working my ass off and still have about 40k to go to reach 100k.

    We don't need your inflation.
    Butts.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Alaedris ().

  • When ever you are thinking about how to improve an imaginary economy in a video game you should ask yourself "What would SWG do?" and in this case, everytime you repair an item it should lose max-durability, you could even toss in some BS skill-line to lessen the amount of loss if you want. SWG had a lot of problems, but their econ was amazing.
  • Alaedris wrote:

    I am totally against ruining gameplay and adding obnoxious equipment constraints to turn Albion Online into a more robust Auction House simulator. I craft. I adventure. I fight. Just progressing into T4 crafting is eating some serious time.

    I don't need this. And I don't want your hyper inflated Korean MMO pricing. It's a buyers market. That's how a good MMORPG should look. The prices on gear and mat stacks are reasonable. T4 costs 11k silver for plate. What you wanna make? 30k? 40k?

    It's ridiculous. That's fine money. I'm working my as off and still have about 40k to go to reach 100k.

    We don't need your inflation.
    I agree!! You want to make a killing fine go craft T7-8 stuff. If you don't want to do that (aka risk reward too great) then stop complaining about your falling profits and sell T2-3 matts as most people don't want to bother gathering them. This market isn't even out of it's starting stages with so many people not even endgame and still not ready to venture out into PVP or other areas where gear gets trashed. I am currently in the top 300 for silver collected in this game (still broke due to building a guild island) I go through about 50 T4 sets of gear a week at least as I farm chests in red zones. Why T4 well because it's cheap so when I get PKed I don't care but I'm still strong enough to kill the mobs (and sometimes even players as I have 48 kills yay PVP noob I am). Most of the time after running back to my dead body when I am PKed I see over 1/2 my stuff trashed. What lower prices for T4-5 gear allow players to do it no be scared of PVP as it's not going to break the bank to engage in it. Would I do the same thing with T6-7 not at this point. If you make the cost of PVP too high (aka 100k for T4-5 sets) people like me will just stop as the risk vs reward goes away and we will go back to gathering and crafting until the price comes down (even through our own hand aka more gathers and crafters).

    If people are willing to gather and craft for those prices there is not much you can do about it and if you raise the price too high we will just gather it and make it ourselves aka now you don't get any of that AH silver. You can try to change the game to get your prices back up (aka destroy everything) and just drive more people away from your products and raise the competition (aka wow crafting and gathering makes a ton of money at lower levels why PVP? and gear flood price drop happens again) or you get over your entitled prices let other crafters progress past T4-5 (I'm sure we see so many that are still suck at that level) and see what the market looks like in 6 months or so.
    Guild Leader of The Gods Of Albion. For those that don't need a leader but enjoy being gods together.
    We are gods among men

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Slickassasin ().

  • I was talking bout this exact same thing with items not repairing to full hp earlier today in discord with the guild. Its a good idea it was actually imployed in an earlier game called Mabinogi.

    In Mabinogi everytime an item was repairs per durability point there was a 2-10% (Depending on how skilled the blacksmith was) chance that durability would be destroyed hence reducing the max durability of an item. Eventually items would be destroyed or salvaged or what not when dura got to low and they bought a new piece to replace it. I found it was a good system and should be used more in MMO's
  • Slickassasin wrote:

    Alaedris wrote:

    I am totally against ruining gameplay and adding obnoxious equipment constraints to turn Albion Online into a more robust Auction House simulator. I craft. I adventure. I fight. Just progressing into T4 crafting is eating some serious time.

    I don't need this. And I don't want your hyper inflated Korean MMO pricing. It's a buyers market. That's how a good MMORPG should look. The prices on gear and mat stacks are reasonable. T4 costs 11k silver for plate. What you wanna make? 30k? 40k?

    It's ridiculous. That's fine money. I'm working my as off and still have about 40k to go to reach 100k.

    We don't need your inflation.
    I agree!! You want to make a killing fine go craft T7-8 stuff. If you don't want to do that (aka risk reward too great) then stop complaining about your falling profits and sell T2-3 matts as most people don't want to bother gathering them. This market isn't even out of it's starting stages with so many people not even endgame and still not ready to venture out into PVP or other areas where gear gets trashed. I am currently in the top 300 for silver collected in this game (still broke due to building a guild island) I go through about 50 T4 sets of gear a week at least as I farm chests in red zones. Why T4 well because it's cheap so when I get PKed I don't care but I'm still strong enough to kill the mobs (and sometimes even players as I have 48 kills yay PVP noob I am). Most of the time after running back to my dead body when I am PKed I see over 1/2 my stuff trashed. What lower prices for T4-5 gear allow players to do it no be scared of PVP as it's not going to break the bank to engage in it. Would I do the same thing with T6-7 not at this point. If you make the cost of PVP too high (aka 100k for T4-5 sets) people like me will just stop as the risk vs reward goes away and we will go back to gathering and crafting until the price comes down (even through our own hand aka more gathers and crafters).
    If people are willing to gather and craft for those prices there is not much you can do about it and if you raise the price too high we will just gather it and make it ourselves aka now you don't get any of that AH silver. You can try to change the game to get your prices back up (aka destroy everything) and just drive more people away from your products and raise the competition (aka wow crafting and gathering makes a ton of money at lower levels why PVP? and gear flood price drop happens again) or you get over you entitled prices let other crafters progress past T4-5 (I'm sure we see so many that are still suck at that level) and see what the market looks like in 6 months or so.
    @Slickassasin what about the idea that with more depreciated items leaving the market, there will be more demand for materials, and therefore more profit for gatherers like yourself? It helps the risk vs reward idea, doesn't it?
  • Honored wrote:

    Slickassasin wrote:

    Alaedris wrote:

    I am totally against ruining gameplay and adding obnoxious equipment constraints to turn Albion Online into a more robust Auction House simulator. I craft. I adventure. I fight. Just progressing into T4 crafting is eating some serious time.

    I don't need this. And I don't want your hyper inflated Korean MMO pricing. It's a buyers market. That's how a good MMORPG should look. The prices on gear and mat stacks are reasonable. T4 costs 11k silver for plate. What you wanna make? 30k? 40k?

    It's ridiculous. That's fine money. I'm working my as off and still have about 40k to go to reach 100k.

    We don't need your inflation.
    I agree!! You want to make a killing fine go craft T7-8 stuff. If you don't want to do that (aka risk reward too great) then stop complaining about your falling profits and sell T2-3 matts as most people don't want to bother gathering them. This market isn't even out of it's starting stages with so many people not even endgame and still not ready to venture out into PVP or other areas where gear gets trashed. I am currently in the top 300 for silver collected in this game (still broke due to building a guild island) I go through about 50 T4 sets of gear a week at least as I farm chests in red zones. Why T4 well because it's cheap so when I get PKed I don't care but I'm still strong enough to kill the mobs (and sometimes even players as I have 48 kills yay PVP noob I am). Most of the time after running back to my dead body when I am PKed I see over 1/2 my stuff trashed. What lower prices for T4-5 gear allow players to do it no be scared of PVP as it's not going to break the bank to engage in it. Would I do the same thing with T6-7 not at this point. If you make the cost of PVP too high (aka 100k for T4-5 sets) people like me will just stop as the risk vs reward goes away and we will go back to gathering and crafting until the price comes down (even through our own hand aka more gathers and crafters).If people are willing to gather and craft for those prices there is not much you can do about it and if you raise the price too high we will just gather it and make it ourselves aka now you don't get any of that AH silver. You can try to change the game to get your prices back up (aka destroy everything) and just drive more people away from your products and raise the competition (aka wow crafting and gathering makes a ton of money at lower levels why PVP? and gear flood price drop happens again) or you get over you entitled prices let other crafters progress past T4-5 (I'm sure we see so many that are still suck at that level) and see what the market looks like in 6 months or so.
    @Slickassasin what about the idea that with more depreciated items leaving the market, there will be more demand for materials, and therefore more profit for gatherers like yourself? It helps the risk vs reward idea, doesn't it?
    My point is it will not help... there will just be more gatherers. I am not a gather I am a red zone chest farmer. If gathering made a lot more money I would be doing that and aka more competition for you (as more people like myself move to that) and then the prices would drop again and you would be back where you started. And I would go back to chest farming. Also your market for selling those sets would decrease as I don't need to risk much to farm T4-5 matts (hell I could farm then naked or craft my own).
    Guild Leader of The Gods Of Albion. For those that don't need a leader but enjoy being gods together.
    We are gods among men

    The post was edited 9 times, last by Slickassasin ().

  • People simply insist in trying to make this game revolve entirely around a gathering/crafting simulator with a little PvP on the side.

    Gathering and crafting is supposed to lead to the main goal of the game, which is to PvP, fight for Territories, and have fun. We don't need this game to become a chore, a.k.a. second job... For the moment the system is working fine as it is, if anything increase the trash rate from loot drop on death.

    Let the market mature before you start screaming, "the sky is falling".

    P.S. - You won't be making much of a profit selling T4-5 items, LP & Alts is the cause for that, most people that can put just 4 hours on a daily basis into the game can craft & gather almost anything up to T4-5 already with little effort or investment.
  • Dygenn wrote:

    Darlantan wrote:

    The economy was broken way back when I played winter alpha where there were no reputation or negative effects on killing players in red or yellow. It has nothing to do with the pvp changes, and everything to due with the design of the game.
    Like I said, I called this out way back in winter alpha and said the economy won't work with a steep vertical progression system with what 13 or 16 teirs of gear? Along with the fact that to level up crafting you have to craft and pump out dozens of gear causing the market to be over-saturated.
    Actually, the gear that people 'pump out' to level up crafting, they should be using to 'learn' instead of crafting so much of it. People can't get past their short-term obsession over a little silver, so they insist on trying to sell it. If they would do the 'learn' function they'd only need to craft using 1/3 as many resources, because you get double the fame for the 'learn' function as you got for crafting the item. Each article you 'recycle' with the learn function triples the fame you get from making it.
    After the surplus junk in the AH drops in value, because nobody really wants it to use, the smarter people buy that stuff and use it themselves to 'learn' instead of crafting junk nobody wants. So it all goes to good use, though the people who spend vastly more resources than they need to level crafting should get a clue and stop wasting their resources.

    The system as it stands for 'leveling' crafting skills is not broken and not a problem for the game's economy.
    It is when you factor in that this game is vertical progression. Now if it was horizontal it wouldn't be so bad, as this is what occured in UO but there were no tiers in UO, quality yes but this game has that too.