[IMPORTANT] Community Vote

  • [IMPORTANT] Community Vote

    Hello,

    I'll be suggesting a crucial feature that would benefit all of us, from players to developers. Please take this suggestion as a way to prevent any additional issues with unwanted patches/changes in the game.
    It could save time for the developers, when you actually know what the community wants and what it desires. It could also bring more satisfaction to your customers, us.. The players.

    I have known many MMOs who fall due to the lack of the importance given to their community, but Albion keeps asking for feedback and tracks down issues well, that's why I'll take my time and suggest the following:



    A poll to understand what the community wants before implementing the changes.


    I. Example:


    II. How will this help:

    Developers will now know before implementing anything if their suggestion could ruin the community's expectations and enjoyment. Remember the game is for us, we're playing and investing time and money in it.
    Guild Wars 2, a great MMO, had a huge issue before implementing their voting system before crucial patches: They changed the design of major World vs World maps thinking that they're doing something great for players, the community raged on them and within a month they had to bring back the old maps, leaving the new maps they worked on in the trash. So why did they even do it before asking their players? It's not like the opinion of 1 game designer that matters, it's the opinion of all or the majority of the players (with all my respect, I love you for creating this game sir, but we're the majority).

    III. The procedure for players:

    Players will receive a mass message in-game from the System. You can spot an official message from the game itself by checking the Albion logo near the message and the sender himself cannot be a player - the scam/phishing issue is resolved.
    Inside that message, players are asked to vote by clicking on the link available inside that message. The link, again, is albiononline.com related so phishing and scam is avoided again.

    Once the players click on the link, they're directed to a Poll & Feedback webpage for Albion, where they have an option to choose and vote.

    IV. The procedure for game designers:

    You never know if a suggestion could be good in-game before trying it, therefore, the vote should not instantly be if it should be implemented or not. Instead, the first poll is always about "Would you like to test the 3 seconds dismount de-buff?".
    • If more that 50% agree to test it, it gets implemented in order to be tested for 2 weeks.
    • If less than 50% agree to test it, the suggestion fails since not even half of the community is interested in simply testing it.. It's really unwanted.
    Would you like to test the 3 seconds dismount debuff?


    Considering the suggestion passed, even for 50.1% - no big deal for the other half of the community, it's simply a test and after 2 weeks everyone could finalize their decision.

    Here we are, after 2 weeks, people had the chance to test it - A LOT of people expected it to be something good but in-fact, the 3 seconds de-buff made everything worse, alliances started to disband, etc.
    Nonetheless, as the procedure goes, there must be a second poll to finalize and have the clearest idea if the suggestion/change/gameplay suits the players or not.

    Since it's a change of gameplay, everyone will be affected, 3 seconds de-buff will affect you somewhere even as crafter. Therefore only half of the community accepting it is not enough. Another poll is sent to the players with another link, and now they must finalize everything.
    • After the test has been done, at least 75% of the players should agree to implement the 3 seconds de-buff before you guys implement it.
    • If it fails to reach 75%, the suggestion doesn't pass and the idea is buried for the mean time.
    • (Optional) A third option could be added to edit the change, i.e: decrease the de-buff timer by 2.5 seconds and it needs 50% to go threw the first step again and be tested for 1 week.
    Should we implement the 3 seconds dismount de-buff?


    Basically a lot disliked it, just kill the idea.

    V. Results:

    We're all here for the results, here are they summed up, clear n smooth.


    • You have had the chance to test that change and whether you liked having it or not, it's up to the majority to decide now.
    • You had a great/awful time for 2 weeks while trying it, but now it's fine since it's added/removed because the majority agrees with you.
    • Your guild/alliance tried to review this change in these 2 weeks and also had a good/bad experience.
    - Game Designers:
    • You did not waste the time of the developers by implementing something we don't want.
    • You have answered your customers' desires and respected the poll.
    • Quality Control/Customer Support do not have to worry about a wave of raging and people leaving the game.
    • Some suggestions seem good, but in-fact they harm communities and players.
    • You will know 2 things: If the suggestion fails at 50% it sucks so bad it didn't even pass. If the suggestion passed and more than 75% voted for it again, it's good and we love you.


    Sirs, this is a win-win deal. Let's shake hands?
    @Korn @Talion @Bercilak
    I am a
    C R I M I N A L
    Don't gather, farm other players

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Deadly_User ().

  • JaalVander wrote:

    "The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of majority."
    -Lord Acton


    Also game design by committee has never been successful.
    You won't be designing a whole game from scratch like that. Don't throw a quote over a game, updates/changes directly affect us - We have the right to express our opinion instead of raging on unwanted changes.
    I am a
    C R I M I N A L
    Don't gather, farm other players
  • The quote applies quite well. Politics directly affects us as well. And yes, these forums are the place to voice your opinion. What you are trying to create is a system upon which ideas are tested / implemented. Not mere opinions. Upon the voted objects people would expect them to happen if the votes pass with mass majority.

    It would always be committee because not all the players vote.
    Say you have a new mechanic and miraculously 50% of playerbase voted upon it.
    75% of people approved the mechanic. So now you implement a mechanic that one third (50*0.75=37.5) of playerbase wanted.

    The problem becomes insane when you have only about 1-5% of players to even browse these forums, let alone participate in this voting system.
    (Forum viewers are probably even less, I don't have the data.)
  • Alright, a very relevant quote for the original post and for this thread:


    Bercilak wrote:

    During the last days I again read several times "that the stupid Devs do not listen to their community".
    Which is something that actually makes us as a team always sad cause it couldn't be further away from the truth.

    Why you guys, did not pay attention to what the players are talking about?
    So let me first talk about what we are doing and then why people think that we are not listening.

    • Key employees (Korn and me) read almost everything what happens here in the forum, on reddit or on Discord.
    • Other key employees like Monocrhome or Eltharyon are reading a lot on the forum as well (they work harder than I do, so they don't have that much time to read everything)
    • Even people working on very specific topics like our Game Designer Lino (H4n1baL) or Game Designer Michael (Retroman) are super active in the forum.
    • Even more so Korn and me we are having over 2k posts here explaining a lot why we are doing certain things.
    • I have plenty players to whom I talk on a daily basis.
    • We as a company have several community members involved into our design process. (Big thanks to Rosalia and Substanz_D for the awesome effort in helping us in PM)
    • Another interesting point to know is that we are after each update sitting down and discussing what the problems are of the newest patch. And these problems we are talking about our too a huge part problems we read in the forums or on discord.


    So how come that despite these actions from our side still people are saying we are not listening?
    I assume the answer is complicated. Let's give it a try by breaking it down into various aspects.

    #1 Diversity of the Community
    Sandbox games like EVE or Albion have a huge problem. Their player base is extremely diverse since the game offers many different activities. The different player groups are so different that each of them has completely different interests. You see these discussions in EVE ever since.

    #2 Not only Care Bear vs Hardcore PVP Guy
    When talking about the diversity of the community a lot of people only see the two extremes of the Care Bear who is afraid of PVP on the one hand and the Hardcore PVP guy who wants to gank innocent people all day long. But even among the hardcore players (short definition: people wo play a lot and are not afraid of pvp) you have a HUGE diversity.

    A few examples of different hardcore PVP players
    • People who like Zerg Fights and people who don't
      • Or people who like to do pvp in small groups and are pissed off when they get zerged away
    • People who want to be able to solo pvp all day long and people who pvp only groups (either small or large)
    • People who want to do only pvp against weaker targets (gatherer) who don't fight back vs people who want to have a challenge (be the best)
    • People who are owning a territory versus people who are living out of the city
    • People who want to grind hard to unlock a weapon vs people who rather unlock plenty weapons
    • People who don't want to grind at all to do pvp vs the ones above
    • People who like the blobbing system in the outlands vs people who don't
    So even among these hardcore players there are so many different interests that it is impossible to satisfy each of them. However all of these people would use the same argument: "We are getting to casual".

    #3 Personal Agenda
    When someone gives us feedback it is always important for us to understand where he is coming from and what is his playstyle is. There are only a few people who are giving very objective feedback, which is fine but which makes it harder for us to interpret everything correctly. Best example here was the "blobbing feature in the outlands discussion". For me personally I actually really don't mind so much if we are doing it or not, it was just one of many solutions which we think made sense. Random example: User X always goes to dungeon Y where he can easily solo fame farm because we made a mistake and the monsters give too much fame. We change it to align it with the rest, person is upset and posts in the forum why we are destroying the game.


    #4 The Unheard Majority
    I love forums or Discord, I've grown up with it and think all of these tools are great ways to stay in touch with your community. However we also have to keep in mind that there is another group of players who don't even know that the forum exists who can't be ignored. And this is not only carebears who are not aware of them. I've played in two top level hardcore guilds in recent betas (incognito) and even among these guilds the majority is NOT active in the forum. I even know a lot of guild masters who are not active here or are even reading what is happening. Of course they have other officers fulfilling that role.

    So for us it is always crucial to see what most players think. We have done this with surveys in the past and will do that again (we have missed out on that opportunity for a while).

    #5 Change
    People hate major changes. People love small additions which make their daily routine easier but they hate all big changes coming their way.
    It is a common phenomenon. And man have we done major changes the past two years and most of them for the better of the game (I know you disagree^^).
    Most people don't remember that in 2013 we had so much more stuff you could pay with gold in the game and we removed it so we are not that much of a P2Win game. We then had people complaining that a) they have been worried that we would not earn enough money and b) others who said that we devalued their gold (which obv we did) and were upset that they could not pay for all these activities anymore.

    BUT I truly believe that if a game does not make major changes over the years it will die out at one point. You have to evolve as a game constantly.

    #6 Overvaluing the Past
    In strong combination with #5 people also tend to overvalue the past. They have certain positive memories about Alpha 1 and how much better a game Albion was. Which is understandable but sometimes can be a limiting factor in certain discussions.


    Overall you can be sure that we really think it is important to listen to the community, BUT there will always be people who do not like a new feature or certain approaches we are taking due to various reasons. We have reached a point as a community where there are so many people that always someone will be unhappy. Which also bears the danger that it is harder for us to see when we make a mistake. I hope what I wrote makes sense.

    IMPORTANT: You can always do the following. Send me a direct message with something you think is going wrong in the forum (better in Discord) and two Things will happen:

    a) 100% I will copy paste this to the appropriate department or person for that matter (we are 50+ people, I am not involved in all projects^^)
    b) in 70% of the cases I will answer you and tell you if I agree or disagree (some things I just miss or don't have the time at that point to answer)

    Kind regards,
    Stefan
  • Deadly_User wrote:

    lustweed wrote:

    good idea to dev a survey, but only if it's an ingame survey, because forum people do not well represent players people ;)
    In-game link, the stats should be on the website tho

    not enough, people will propagate the link on irrelevant communities, just watch how toxic some are...

    better ingame only or nothing, bad advice supported by a survey can change dev mind and hurt the game

    ingame way dev could apply extended data on answers, like destiny level or play time, which i hope can prevent assholes influence XD
    IGN: LewdPriest
  • lustweed wrote:

    Deadly_User wrote:

    lustweed wrote:

    good idea to dev a survey, but only if it's an ingame survey, because forum people do not well represent players people ;)
    In-game link, the stats should be on the website tho
    not enough, people will propagate the link on irrelevant communities, just watch how toxic some are...

    better ingame only or nothing, bad advice supported by a survey can change dev mind and hurt the game

    ingame way dev could apply extended data on answers, like destiny level or play time, which i hope can prevent assholes influence XD
    Lol? Without an account to login on the Albion Website they cannot vote. Is this rocket science? Seriously did you think a random link would be shared and spammed anywhere for people to vote??
    I am a
    C R I M I N A L
    Don't gather, farm other players
  • Deadly_User wrote:

    lustweed wrote:

    Deadly_User wrote:

    lustweed wrote:

    good idea to dev a survey, but only if it's an ingame survey, because forum people do not well represent players people ;)
    In-game link, the stats should be on the website tho
    not enough, people will propagate the link on irrelevant communities, just watch how toxic some are...
    better ingame only or nothing, bad advice supported by a survey can change dev mind and hurt the game

    ingame way dev could apply extended data on answers, like destiny level or play time, which i hope can prevent assholes influence XD
    Lol? Without an account to login on the Albion Website they cannot vote. Is this rocket science? Seriously did you think a random link would be shared and spammed anywhere for people to vote??



    rocket science xD like to copy paste an url ? xD

    forum people << ingame people

    =>

    not ingame = not trustable

    not easy enough to catch for you ?

    or we have extended data, or it is better to not have survey, cause we know big groups will use it to mislead devs, are you from a big group ?
    IGN: LewdPriest

    The post was edited 2 times, last by lustweed ().

  • Deadly_User wrote:

    LoDK wrote:

    And if you have 3 4 accounts u give 12 votes?:) Smart
    That's why you need forums and specific URLs, it's for the IP-restricted vote. (Location/Computer/Network restrictions)
    Have you even finished high-school?

    it is you who seems in need to go back there xD

    you don't even know what you're talking about, many real people can have same ip for various reasons, as ip can be changed

    yes alt can vote too, and extended ingame data will ponderate, it is a vote about albion world, each avatar count depending on the reached level in the study area of the vote
    IGN: LewdPriest

    The post was edited 1 time, last by lustweed ().