Ganking Feedback Thread [serious]

  • Narzick wrote:

    @Korn this also just doesnt make sense because a zerg will still be able to dismount someone with ease just due to the nature of a zerg being so big in numbers and coming from every angle. Now once dismounted the person who is being zerged out has no chance of fighting or escaping. Theres been times where I was dismounted, was able to get in 5 auto attacks on double bladed to stun the person and then run away and invis to get away from the zerg closing in, now thats impossible, you'll just die.

    If you are force dismounted through damage, you can use your abilities and auto-attacks right away. And if you manually dismount against a zerg, why does it matter whether you can get 3 extra auto-attacks of? I don't follow how that helps you escaping.

    I'm a solo ganker as well, there is no way I can solo gank anymore. You guys have nerfed it so much in the past years. We used to never have the off screen name badges, invis used to never have a range to it, mounts never used to stand near you and have a quick mount option to them, the CD on abilities after dismounting wasnt as long as it is since launch, there wasnt crazy fast moving crafter gear, and now you also take away the only thing a solo/small group gank party has? Auto attacking to slow a mount was literally the last thing.

    We'll keep an eye on how solo gankers are doing after these changes. Judging from solo ganking videos available, most of the fights they get into would not have been affected by the recent changes. We'll monitor the impact and take action if required.

    The way I see to fix this is to either revert it back, take away gallop and go back to just flat movement speed, or shorten the ability cooldown after dismount.

    The thing is that gallopp, prior to patch, actually *helped* the gankers. Taking it out, and adjusting horse movement speed, would make ganking much much harder than it is right now.

    I personally think shortening the ability CD after dismount will offer the best solution just due to the fact you have to spec into it to be able to chase and it will take making a specific build or skill to catch them.

    Mounts were never intended to be a combat engagement tool. There are posts as early as 2015 where we talk about this. They were always intended to be a form of travel and escape.

    If I could dismount while theyre running away but then potentially pop a dash, a rush, and then my stun run on double bladed to stun them and MAYBE have a chance of killing their horse I'd see that fair. Just this last change was not the right answer and it seemed like a very knee-jerk reaction to placing a wet bandaid on an issue you've seen.

    I've been with the game for years, and will continue to support, I just hope you guys realize this was a very bad idea. Even some crafter/gatherers I know said that they have such an unfair advantage now

    Thanks for your support! I think right now, emotions are running high with a lot of people. We'll monitor the actual impact of the changes made, and of course, make adjustments if they do not work out as intended.
  • What an utterly ridiculous and garbage change. I'm so grateful I spent several weeks in beta practicing on DB staff to get ready for release. Now at release I've spent all my LP on 2 characters with one being able to craft them at a high tier and the other to speed up specialization into this now trash tier weapon. 3 years in beta and still making sweeping changes to your mechanics based on a few whiners who weren't able to solo gather a hostile black zone. GG
  • Korn wrote:

    Note also that the 3 seconds pass quite quickly: if, for example, you are mounted, and other player tries to run "through you", you'll still get to auto-attack him, and hence interrupt his gallop. If, however, that player has cleared you, and is now running away, chasing him down from behind is more difficult - and that's really what it should be.
    After reading this comment I must ask you, do you even play this game? My favorite part of this game is ganking, it is why I joined and why I have played it for so many countless hours. It is also why I decided I wanted to support it so much I bought two legendary founders packs. I have ganked for so many countless hours and I cannot remember a single time a player has tried to "run through me" unless they knew for a fact they could get to immediate and certain safety, which if you are a ganker you never try and gank at these locations.

    Korn wrote:

    The goal of these changes is to deal issues caused by the horse-hopping technique.

    If a target is being chased by 2 or more players, and one of them has a faster mount, he could basically never get away. The fast mounter ganker would chase, dismount, interrupted gallop with auto-attack and the other guy would then catch up. This could be repeated indefinitely.
    This is just untrue, I made a mistake two days ago and got myself in a situation where I was being chased by a group of ten players from an enemy alliance. They continued to attempt to kill me across two entire zones and got very close more then once. I was able to use skill, luck, and game mechanics knowledge to escape them but just barely. At the end my heart was pounding, my body was sweating, but I was safe and happy to be playing such an intense game.

    Korn wrote:

    Before we had the gallop mechanic, this problem did not exist, meaning that if you had managed to escape from a gank attempt, and managed to get away on your mount, you'd generally be safe. That escaping from ganks is theoretically possible is crucial for the Outlands to work, otherwise they are effectively completely shut down to solo and small group players.
    Lets look a little closer at this comment "before we introduced the gallop mechanic". Don't you mean before you nerfed gank weapons, added a gallop to make horses better at running away from players who are on foot, added name tags that appear while the player is off screen, added the ability to instantly get back on your mount while gathering, and added gatherers gear all in an attempt to make ganking harder and harder? I can only think that you game developers will continue to cater to players who complain about being killed while moving around in a "full loot drop PVP game" alone through the most dangerous areas of the game until there is nothing left for us PVPers to do except fight other players who want to PVP at that very moment, then fight to see who can bring more players to the fight then the other group.

    Korn wrote:

    It's not our intention to significantly change the ganking balance in normal combat situations, such as when you sneak up on a dismounted gatherer or PvEer, or when you are already in a fight and then try to escape from that fight. If you watch PvP videos from successful solo gankers, you'll notice that almost all of their ganks happen in the above situations.
    Again I have to ask, do you even play this game? Do you even realize how hard it is to catch a gatherer even when you do "sneak up" on him? He instantly gets back on his mount because all gatherers gather next to their mounts, they all have the best escape skills in the game do to gathering gear, and they see you coming well before you are near them because you added name tags while the players are off screen, they usually have better mounts because it very easy to justify spending more on your mount when you are a gatherer then it is for any other players in the game since gathering is the easiest way to make large amounts of money.

    Would you please post which videos you are describing? I have watched many videos from solo gankers and don't remember any who were successfully chasing down anyone who was on anything faster then a T3 horse, which in a week will be no one.

    Korn wrote:

    What we want to address though is the following: people should be able to break through portal camps, and if the break through, they should be relatively safe for the time being, and not be chased down by the campers 10 seconds later. And secondly, people who are watchful and play smart should be able to play in the Outlands without facing certain death everytime they meet a ganker. This does not mean that they should get away 100% of the time either, rather, it should be a game between cat and mouse.
    The new shield mechanics are the only aspect of this patch change that makes any sense to me, though it doesn't make much sense. You did give them an obvious debuff that is clearly on there character and all they needed to do was learn the game mechanics to avoid this and wait a few second before zoning from a portal to another zone that is close to the portal or when leaving the underway. I can see how you may decide it is to easy to take advantage of newer players who have not yet taken the time to learn how the bubble shields function.
  • Susidegink wrote:

    What can I tell about those who can run away? They are prepared! You see person? go fu**ing mount up and run. Often player lets you run to him and hit him before he mounts, so you don't let him do that (you can't get mounted if you are getting hit). So now these bad players will not be punished.
    This is a good quote.

    This is why I referred to the quoted video from the dev as the game still being new. Many players are still learning that they need to mount up as soon as they see a red plate or have a mount loaded to run. This from a developer perspective is on the low end of being prepared. You should not design a system around the bare minimal. The high end, is someone is mounted as soon as they see you. This is on the higher end of that scale. This change rewards people on the minimal end and make those on the higher end bare none superior now.
  • I am mostly a gatherer/market guy who did not play in any betas.
    I started farming in red zones about a week ago and enjoyed the cat and mouse with the gankers. As the mouse you had to stay attentive and have an exit strategy, I was attacked a variety of times but have yet to die to a gank, I came in with a fast mount not a fat ox and a spec built around getting away. Of course the benefit of the danger was a zone with lots of resources to gather....

    This morning I decided to see how the dismount change had effected things and when I zoned into my usually sparsely populated red zones I was greeted by ox after ox farming the zone. The red zones I checked were picked all but clean, I think its probably better to even go back to yellows/blues at this point after these changes to farm. =/

    I'm really bummed out about this.
  • Dismounting now applies a debuff that means for three seconds you cannot attack other players

    In this post you talk about having a buddy and ganking in the black zones. And then go on to say that solo/small-group play would be close to 100% non-viable. But solo and duo ganking is solo/small-group play, is it not? So did you mean that solo/small-group consensual play/gathering would be close to 100% non-viable in the big, bad, scary outlands? Is it supposed to be 100% viable? The red zones are almost 100%.
  • The idea they're going for seems to be geared toward making soloing in the Black Zones viable. I applaud that effort, though I'm not sure they're going about it in the best way.

    I quickly gauged solo Black Zone farming as nonviable compared to red zone just given the risk levels. Given how populated Red Zones are now, it's had the comical side effect of them becoming Yellow Zones as the only Red you'll see in a day is usually running for his life, chased by a zerg of NPKs. Given how safe Red Zones are and how risky Black Zones are, there's just no way the risk/reward is even close.

    With this change, I'll probably consider Black Zone farming again. But given how hard it is to now kill someone in a small group, the risk in Red Zones will drop from low to virtually non-existent. So I'll still have something to think about.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by RockLobster ().

  • It's fun we always hear about the defender skills and never about the attacker skills. Don't you think hunting is about predicting where you target will be, what he will do, where it will be hard for him to escape?

    Right now, it's"bring numbers, camp or randomly move, see, attack, and kill". Actually, it's sometimes worse, if you are not plenty, you count the ennemies before attacking and if you don't really outnumber them you leave... People call that hardcore PVP. Lol it looks like five years old happy to get a kill...
  • OK, since my separate thread suggesting to remove gallop from oxes was locked, I post it here

    In short:

    Leave the gallop mode to horses only, also removing their bonus to carry weight.

    Remove gallop mode from oxes.

    Scouting and transit should be more or less safe (unless you run directly into blob).

    Transporting and gathering should not benefit from that "safe mode movement".
  • markes wrote:

    Korn wrote:

    Thanks for the feedback.

    The goal of these changes is to deal issues caused by the horse-hopping technique.

    If a target is being chased by 2 or more players, and one of them has a faster mount, he could basically never get away. The fast mounter ganker would chase, dismount, interrupted gallop with auto-attack and the other guy would then catch up. This could be repeated indefinitely.
    And why is that a problem?
    You guys are making changes to the game that are destroying particular aspects of it. Stop doing stupid shit with your own game ffs!
    Remember they are the ''creators'' not the other way around. We give them feedback and they sometimes listen. See this as privilege...nothing more, nothing less
    Support - Holy magic.

  • @Korn

    Did you seriously close the other (very neutral) thread on this topic and decide to direct everything instead to one that positioned this change in an unreasonably positive light? You shouldn't do this in the future.

    Regarding this change, you need to understand that this is no longer beta.

    You can't willy nilly change a long-established mechanic like auto-attacking after dismounting a horse on a whim, because some people complained. You should know this by now, but people will complain about everything. Knee-jerk over reaction to forum complaints is one of the single biggest sins of MMO design.

    The auto-attack change was not needed. The reasoning you gave was not thoroughly thought through.

    If a target is being chased by 2 or more players, and one of them has a faster mount, he could basically never get away. The fast mounter ganker would chase, dismount, interrupted gallop with auto-attack and the other guy would then catch up. This could be repeated indefinitely.

    No. No no no. This would only be true if Albion were an open-world MMO. But it isn't. It's a series of relatively small zones. So while what you say would, in theory, be true it's a very different story in reality, because in the time it takes to get ahead of a fleeing horse, dismount, hit it, stop it's gallop, have someone else run ahead, dismount, hit it again to prevent gallop, then both people damage the horse enough to dismount the target, they are almost assuredly very close to the next zone line.

    This wasn't an issue because gankers have a very limited window to execute a dismount before the target escaped to a zone line.

    Before we had the gallop mechanic, this problem did not exist, meaning that if you had managed to escape from a gank attempt, and managed to get away on your mount, you'd generally be safe.

    No no no, again. Before we had the gallop mechanic, characters took damage while they were on mounts. This was changed to make characters immune from damage until they were dismounted. And now you've changed it so that anyone on a mount cannot even stop the gallop bonus of someone else. You've made horses invulnerable. In fact, the only way to catch anyone on a horse now will be to zerg them.

    Seriously, the game is live now.. Gone are the days of throwing major game changes up on a staging server for a day or two before pushing them live.

    Albion Online needs an Official Test Server that is accessible to all players and proposed mechanic changes like this need to be tested for a minimum of at least one week before you roll these live, so your player base has the time to explain to you why they believe a proposed change is a mistake.

    I love the game. I love the team at SBI. But this one was really a miss and you guys really need to do better now that the game is live.
  • Something just accured too me that could even affect none gangers like me. What about killing mobs for leather. I like to have a quick kill and run of. Is that affected as well?

    But yes, As a none ganger I feel the pain for the gangers. It use to be a nice rush to go to the black zone, now I feel like that rush just got taken away by this 3 second rule. Quite a pitty.