Hellgates are DEAD

  • Bercilak wrote:

    Just to be sure the problem is that right now almost everyone is playing the Full Loot Hellgates due to the gear cap. Then why is the title Hellgates are dead. [...]
    Am I missing something ? How can this be the case if the gear cap for full loot HG is on testserver currently and not even on live yet ?

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Skitted ().

  • Wadefu wrote:

    BRiCK wrote:

    You forgot Souls and Hellgate Artifacts...

    Again, raising the drop rate of souls and artifacts for red/black HG's and REMOVING them from yellow/green will get them populated again.
    Just coming from someone who runs yellow HG's a bit. Yellow HG have got me back in the game from not playing at all. We usually run about 8-10 a night with our limited dad gamer lives.
    I can tell you - we do not run it for fame/souls/artifacts. (We skip mobs, as soon as we finish a fight we leave the hellgate - we rarely kill the end boss, because we just want more fights) We run it for practice, synergy and testing out builds.

    We do not run red zone hellgates because we do not get the practice we want because we do not have the gear/skill to have a remotely fair fight. This goes back to us not playing enough to support the gear we would lose in red zone hellgates.

    I can tell you even if they raise loot and lower it in yellow it wouldn't change our minds to try to move to red, because our skill level is not their yet. And if we keep losing gear it sets us even further behind.
    We dont want people who cant support themselves in red/black hellgates.

    And yes, making souls and artifacts only drop in red/black hellgates will get the GOOD teams running them again.
  • Bercilak wrote:

    First of all with the new hellgates more people are playing hellgates then before.

    The Full Loot Hellgates can be fixed easily, a few information:
    • It is in our own interest they are played regular
    • It must have an appropriate reward
    • Right now we just want to wait and see for launch how the bug fix of the black market will change it
    • Plus you will see increased activity for launch in general
    • Then we gather data
    • And if we are still not seeing Full Loot Hellgates being played enough we have no problem of increasing the rewards until they are played frequently.


    To me that makes sense, but maybe I am not seeing the problem. Feel free to point me in the right direction (with a constructive post).

    Kind regards,
    Stefan
    How about make 1-2 items drop on a yellow zone HG loss?
    or
    Remove souls/artis from yellow/green and bump the rate up in Red/black
    or
    Test a MINIMUM gear cap in red and leave Black uncapped. (Example, red zone gate you cant enter unless you have an average IP of atleast 1000 and maybe a max of 1100?)
  • I only have a few hours in this game until now and maybe it's not fair to speak here.
    I went to a yellow hg without knowing what was going on and my heart was racing expecting loot drop, after we won, it was anticlimactic. I've only watched the trailers and had no real info on the hg system.
    I understand your incentive to attract casuals and not scare them away, but they won't be the ones buying gold and supporting you.
    You don't have to make the players choose between safe and risk-reward, because most of them will always choose to be safe, it's human nature.
    Play with their hearts and show them what adrenaline feels like from the early game.
    If a player feels safe until t4-5, after the first death he may feel betrayed because the game was soft with him until that point.
    Death should be in the tutorial in this game IMHO, like in dark souls 1.
    I find it funny that on the homepage for the game you advertise everything but the loot drop system. At least on mobile I see no mention of that.
    Cheers.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Arky ().

  • That is a interesting argument.

    I think there are two parts in this. Design decision for new player experience, and mechanics for hellgates.

    In other games a new char would have a graceperiod of a certain amount of online hours before your gear started to drop.

    I would be in favor of a solution like that, and prefer fully removing yellow and red zones, and possibly expand one more tier in the newbie zones.

    However the design decision is clear, and royal lands is the result. As mentioned id prefer it wasnt there for a number of reasons, but now that its there then the solution itself is as good as it gets.

    The second side is the yellow hellgate mechanics and the expectation of dropping loot.
    I like the way you think, and how you are dissapointed woth no loot. Thats the type of player who will love the game, and while you didnt get or lose loot, you are then ready to go to red and black zones as you belong there.

    There will be a lot of players who feel opposite, and be suprised negatively when they lose their gear - as the general expectation would be that the rules of the instance will follow the rules of the zone you came from.
    You can move to a harder place, but a new player unexpectedly losing his items might be lost forever.

    The devs have decided we need a large part of the fame without risk, and so be it - there are plenty of areas for players like you and me.

    The idea is to incentivise players who have grown soft in the themeparks to be able to play the game but slowly start looking to see how green the grass is just over the fence where the full loot game happens.

    It might and might not work, but essentially it takes nothing away from our game experience as long as the risk comes with a big difference in reward.
  • Make it
    Yellow HG - 700 IP soft cap with full loot pvp
    Red HG - 900 IP soft cap with full loot pvp
    Black HG unrestricted with x3 more fame/silver than previous ones

    Progression, balance, thrill = more healthy community, more players will stayin cause of "FULL LOOT FEATURE".

    *Current yellow with knockback mechanic is dull. why? because after couple months T6 will be worth shit and none will care much about it so let it become drop able as it was in BETA1 .....its still victory reward and it gives some nice loot to drop in black markets.....

    **Some "hardcores" posters here forgets that soft cap aint equal hard cap and even 2 tiers above in soft cap zone have huge advantage...
  • Bercilak wrote:

    First of all with the new hellgates more people are playing hellgates then before.

    The Full Loot Hellgates can be fixed easily, a few information:
    • It is in our own interest they are played regular
    • It must have an appropriate reward
    • Right now we just want to wait and see for launch how the bug fix of the black market will change it
    • Plus you will see increased activity for launch in general
    • Then we gather data
    • And if we are still not seeing Full Loot Hellgates being played enough we have no problem of increasing the rewards until they are played frequently.


    To me that makes sense, but maybe I am not seeing the problem. Feel free to point me in the right direction (with a constructive post).

    Kind regards,
    Stefan

    The problem for me is that you're treating launch as just another beta phase. You have been at this for a few years now and people were actually expecting release to be, well.... an actual release. I'm not sure what the numbers are for players returning to MMOs once they've quit it (beta phases notwithstanding), but I'd bet it's not good. The game caters less and less and less to the 'dedicated' players, in an attempt to placate the casual ones. The casual players that are the first to hop on to the next MMO. So... you're driving away the dedicated, while the casuals go away on their own. The few dedicated players that would stick through it all will eventually go afk cause there's very little competition for them, and game feels dead.

    I don't think there's any confusion at all about what the dedicated players are asking for black hellgates. The hellgates were the best they've ever been, why ruin it? I don't think there's any downsides either, not with yellow HGs around for the rest. And yet you'd have us go through more months of betas to test something no one asked for and no one wants, just in case it somehow works out for OTHER people. Taking from our enjoyment, from the vision we signed up for, to give to others. So why bother sticking around, why bother grinding? Why spend ALL that time for a sub par experience, for someone else's idea of fun?

    I'll add my voice to others in this thread that HGs are very important 'end-game' content for a lot of people, and that the time spent in grinding and gathering and COMPETING has to be relevant or no one will bother. Please remove hellish artifacts for yellow, leave HGs uncapped, bring back mob execution, remove blobs from black zones.
  • 900IP is cap on Yellow GvG... why cap Red Hellgate like yellow zone ? x )

    The idea is that people venture into black zone dungeon when they can not go into HG black zone.
    Not that they kill the economy of the game by chaining the HG without any risk taking in yellow.

    For the training 5v5, for info, there are the GvG in yellow, the new zone of raid in yellow.

    Instead of creating HG safe, it was necessary to make more open pvp safe.

    As mentioned above, players must be accustomed to combat.
    Not given them kikoo HG free loot arenas, no challenge. They're already doing that on the warchest / chest (which should be up ... really loot tricks in it).

    @Bercilak People are trying to answer you. But I think many are tired of saying things and not being heard @béta1-béta2-players
  • So again.

    Those of you who are spending all this time talking about the 900 cap and how rubish it is etc.

    Have you looked at the scaling factors used for the soft cap?, have you even tested it ?.

    As far as i know it works different from the yellow cap, and that its only reslly after t8 that it kicks in for real.

    Have you tested it, or are you talking about something you actually dont even know how works?
  • The cap is a secondary problem. The problem comes from the fact that there is far too much proposal for choosing hellgate.
    Hellgates as their names should be punitive and not a way to train.
    To train, there are many ways on albion just use his head.
    The excuse of training is not viable.
    And the fact that the players are in no way executed does not prepare them at all to the punitive hellgates. On the contrary, a bad punitive experience and he will not come back because he will have the choice to do it in safe area. Players will not persevere.


    20th time this is said in this thread.

    Edit : Blabla today the players play in black. Blablabla today the server is dead.
  • 900IP is cap on Yellow GvG... why cap Red Hellgate like yellow zone ? x )

    Mathieu94P wrote:


    The idea is that people venture into black zone dungeon when they can not go into HG black zone.
    Not that they kill the economy of the game by chaining the HG without any risk taking in yellow.

    For the training 5v5, for info, there are the GvG in yellow, the new zone of raid in yellow.

    Instead of creating HG safe, it was necessary to make more open pvp safe.

    As mentioned above, players must be accustomed to combat.
    Not given them kikoo HG free loot arenas, no challenge. They're already doing that on the warchest / chest (which should be up ... really loot tricks in it).

    @Bercilak People are trying to answer you. But I think many are tired of saying things and not being heard @béta1-béta2-players

    Go open hector patch - yellow zone reverted to 700 IP soft cap

    giving red zone 900 ip which are T8 or T7.1 is more than ok. Why ? because i tested this beta and i played (cant say what u tested) so T6.1 was all over the hgs and slightly (after couple months) t7.1 was kickin in.
    Those T6.1 at beging had price and T7.1 even more bigger value. So JUST STOP trying predict or whatever spill any bullshit how soft caps or whatever are bad.

    NONE gonna play a game if there wont be balance in competitive play, none will fight you "hardcores" "no lifers" "hard workers achievers" toward your high end competition. NOne gonna be eager to spend as much time just to be insta killend by +2 tiers in unrestricted 5v5 mode and have that very single one FULL LOOT PVP FEATURE.

    Thats all hf
  • As CEO appeared

    I spam again with tier (not IP cause i felt i was wrong)

    Yellow HG - T6-T6.1 (most efficient) soft cap with full loot pvp
    Red HG - T7.1 (most efficient) soft cap with full loot pvp
    Black HG unrestricted with x3 more fame/silver than previous ones

    Most players gonna stay in black for first couple months cause of competition and best rewards. Later on new players gonna kick in and fill all HG's and those casuals who will be droped from Black HGs.

    Thats easy to look by cause this current beta was just like that.

    *Remember this game should focus for majority and sustain healthy pop not the minority 1k players who took, controll most of zones and free farm, snowball 199k founders in the end.

    ** T6.1 had price. T7.1 was like x3 T6.1 price. Dont even argue or post blindfolded any ideas simply looking in numbers.
  • I think what might really solve it best would be to have an Arena 2v2 - 5vs5 in the green cities and make all hg full loot:

    Green 2vs2 fixed itempower value or softcapped
    Red 5vs5 fixed itempower value or softcapped
    5vs5 Black non-capped
    And make them all really good rewards

    Thus newbies and low/mid tier keep a decent respect for HG because you can loose Tour gear, but still have a way to train for them right in the City.