Hellgates are DEAD

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    • Hellgates are DEAD

      So 2nd day in a row we do 3-4h of hellgates and face almost no enemies , people simply dont see reason to go there. You eather face Derrick's team in 8.1+ with Item power 1400+ or noone. Such a waste of time , except for the fame , but at this point that is not a concern , so all in all , no fights no value so basicaly a waste of time ... I guess only consistent pvp spot now is GvG
    • Sinatra.SUN schrieb:

      Try thw yellow hellgates, they are loaded with people
      If I want a no consequence MOBA I have better options. This game is an MMO with full loot, and the pvp is centered in a garbage knock down only zone? They really, really need to look at risk and reward. They had a good balance before this patch, and full loot HGs were active. At this rate people will run yellow zone HGs for a week then just quit, because better gear is irrelevant with an item power cap.
    • Fully agree, but poster wanted action - and that action didnt include fighing teams in 8.1.

      Most people do yellows now due to loot in blak hellgate being very bad, and yellow enables you to test out new builds without insano grind which is exactly what people want before launch.

      What you see ingame now is in no way a representation of launch gameplay.

      That said loot in black hellgates suck and the devs know it.
    • The Risk vs Reward for Infernal hellgates is a mess.

      You're risking ~1 - 2 million silver in gear to be competitive and then you might get ~75k silver worth of runes and souls for completing a HG.

      My guild is a small guild with 7-8 players, prior to Hector we had a blast, we would run hellgates litteraly every day for hours and hours on end. With Hector it's really knocked the wind out of our sails, nobody even wants to do HGs anymore and I don't think we're coming back unless they make some changes for the better.
    • There is currently a balancing error in the black market system, which pretty much has prevented T6+ gear from dropping, apart from bags and capes.

      This will be fixed soon.

      On top of that, we are considering to test a very very soft cap for infernal hell gates. Why? The reason is that if the meta tier for hell gates become too high, the risk reward ratio gets skewed. In a structured 5v5 set up, where 100+ item power advantage can matter a lot, much more than in an open world setting where there is always a risk of dying due to randomness/being outnumbered."Very very soft cap" means that the actual item power decrease for being over the soft cap item power would be very small.
    • Korn schrieb:

      There is currently a balancing error in the black market system, which pretty much has prevented T6+ gear from dropping, apart from bags and capes.

      This will be fixed soon.

      On top of that, we are considering to test a very very soft cap for infernal hell gates. Why? The reason is that if the meta tier for hell gates become too high, the risk reward ratio gets skewed. In a structured 5v5 set up, where 100+ item power advantage can matter a lot, much more than in an open world setting where there is always a risk of dying due to randomness/being outnumbered."Very very soft cap" means that the actual item power decrease for being over the soft cap item power would be very small.
      The biggest issue besides loot is splitting up hellgates into 3 pools of players. It's really going to hurt the variety of players encountered even when loot is "fixed".
    • Imo...

      The very, very soft cap would be a poor band aid to a bigger problem, and should be avoided.

      There should always be a free version of HG's active, faithfull to the sandbox full loot PvP essence of the game. Very,very soflty messing with that essencial principle would solve nothing and would be creating a bad precedent and bigger problems.

      As I suggested in other threads, I feel that the real problem (gap of gear and experience between established teams and other teams) should be solved by creating one more division of red HGs, hard capped at T6.3, to create an intermediate stepping stone between yellow HGs and free/black HGs. These red HGs would then feed the black HGs, progressively and naturally, as players would seek the reasonable next step in their progression, and the better loot.
    • Korn schrieb:

      There is currently a balancing error in the black market system, which pretty much has prevented T6+ gear from dropping, apart from bags and capes.

      This will be fixed soon.

      On top of that, we are considering to test a very very soft cap for infernal hell gates. Why? The reason is that if the meta tier for hell gates become too high, the risk reward ratio gets skewed. In a structured 5v5 set up, where 100+ item power advantage can matter a lot, much more than in an open world setting where there is always a risk of dying due to randomness/being outnumbered."Very very soft cap" means that the actual item power decrease for being over the soft cap item power would be very small.

      A cap in the top end hellgates? This is absolutely disgusting to read. The reason my team run hellgates in 8.1 is because we can. We could lose 8.1 over and over again because we earned the ability to do so with our guild. Make hellgates competitive and rewarding so that people want to COMPETE... Where is the fun in the community trying to impose a 5.2/6.1 cap like they did in beta 2?

      I'd rather play in 7.1 vs 8.1 and have a higher chance of reward myself. I think it's ridiculous that people complain about hellgates being unrewarding but are also annoyed that my team try to run a few from time to time. Be happy that you have the opportunity to take our stuff.

      That being said imposing any kind of cap is just a horrible idea, I'm not playing Albion for arenas and as far as I'm led to believe arena is already coming. You said it'd be a very small item power decrease but you should be giving people the incentive to wear their best gear outside of the safe zones rather than removing the likelihood of that happening.

      Make interesting and rewarding loot tables, it's really not that hard. And just to make something very clear to you, 7.2+ materials including 8.3 are way too common. If you're not going to fix this you may as well add materials drops back to hellgates.
      Derrick

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Derrick ()

    • Derrick schrieb:

      Korn schrieb:

      There is currently a balancing error in the black market system, which pretty much has prevented T6+ gear from dropping, apart from bags and capes.

      This will be fixed soon.

      On top of that, we are considering to test a very very soft cap for infernal hell gates. Why? The reason is that if the meta tier for hell gates become too high, the risk reward ratio gets skewed. In a structured 5v5 set up, where 100+ item power advantage can matter a lot, much more than in an open world setting where there is always a risk of dying due to randomness/being outnumbered."Very very soft cap" means that the actual item power decrease for being over the soft cap item power would be very small.
      A cap in the top end hellgates? This is absolutely disgusting to read. The reason my team run hellgates in 8.1 is because we can. We could lose 8.1 over and over again because we earned the ability to do so with our guild. Make hellgates competitive and rewarding so that people want to COMPETE... Where is the fun in the community trying to impose a 5.2/6.1 cap like they did in beta 2?

      I'd rather play in 7.1 vs 8.1 and have a higher chance of reward myself. I think it's ridiculous that people complain about hellgates being unrewarding but are also annoyed that my team try to run a few from time to time. Be happy that you have the opportunity to take our stuff.

      That being said imposing any kind of cap is just a horrible idea, I'm not playing Albion for arenas and as far as I'm led to believe arena is already coming. You said it'd be a very small item power decrease but you should be giving people the incentive to wear their best gear outside of the safe zones rather than removing the likelihood of that happening.

      Make interesting and rewarding loot tables, it's really not that hard. And just to make something very clear to you, 7.2+ materials including 8.3 are way too common. If you're not going to fix this you may as well add materials drops back to hellgates.
      Well you can afford the 8,1s but others can't so they don't do the HGs at all thus resulting in empty hell gates and the current problems.


      Korn schrieb:

      There is currently a balancing error in the black market system, which pretty much has prevented T6+ gear from dropping, apart from bags and capes.

      This will be fixed soon.

      On top of that, we are considering to test a very very soft cap for infernal hell gates. Why? The reason is that if the meta tier for hell gates become too high, the risk reward ratio gets skewed. In a structured 5v5 set up, where 100+ item power advantage can matter a lot, much more than in an open world setting where there is always a risk of dying due to randomness/being outnumbered."Very very soft cap" means that the actual item power decrease for being over the soft cap item power would be very small.

      I kinda feel that the new HGs are actualy droping less artifacts than before. Did you decrease the artifact drop rate and increase the item drop rate ?
    • Korn schrieb:

      There is currently a balancing error in the black market system, which pretty much has prevented T6+ gear from dropping, apart from bags and capes.

      This will be fixed soon.

      On top of that, we are considering to test a very very soft cap for infernal hell gates. Why? The reason is that if the meta tier for hell gates become too high, the risk reward ratio gets skewed. In a structured 5v5 set up, where 100+ item power advantage can matter a lot, much more than in an open world setting where there is always a risk of dying due to randomness/being outnumbered."Very very soft cap" means that the actual item power decrease for being over the soft cap item power would be very small.
      I would appriciate this "very very soft cap". You can do GvGs, if you want to do PvP with best gear availabe to you.
    • Happy to hear about the loot hopefully coming back.

      At the same time i am very much against even the slightest soft cap in black hellgates, and i would really hope that you wait considering this until you see how launch plays out.

      My reasoning might be different, and many might disagree but ill try :)

      First of course is the argument that with the two new lower tier hellgates, you have in fact catered for all those who want a lower risk/reward scenario.

      My main reasoning is that this game needs its Rock Stars. Having top tiered, highly geared teams gives you something to aim for, and a sense of purpose to aspire to.
      With applying t8 mats in territories, and making them raidable you have also made tier8 gear achieveable by lower tier guilds.

      Right now Derrick and his strong team is the Moby Dick of the hellgates. You meet them you die. However, they are also the team to beat which makes it really interesting. Again risk and reward, meeting them implies a huge risk - but the reward equally great. The same goes for hellgates in general (If the loot was like before hector), then as long as you dont meet them every time which technically is impossible then there is plenty of other fights and loot to be had to fund the loss of meeting that team - it wont be the same issue after launch as long as loot is attractive enough, plus right now everyone tests out new gear and that can only be done in yellow hellgates due to the levelling ceiling.

      So a few days ago i had the luxury of meeting Derricks team 2 times in a row, and they just rolled us. We dont lose often, but we lose to that. Its a mix of them being well playing and then having a 2 tier advantage incl masteries, its all ways hard to say. However it also gives a motivation to go that extra mile it is to get to compete with that. It makes us insist on planing for max masteries and tier 8 gear, and how to reach the point where we can compete on somewhat even ground.
      We watched our losses over again and again to find ways to bear a team like that. They are simply trophy kills, and when launch comes i cant wait to eventually meet them and beat them some day and carry the loot home with Derricks head on a stick(no offense meant) to show "we fucking did it" . And when that day comes, i dont want that little voice nagging at me saying " ah yes, but helped by a very, very small gentle soft cap". I dont want that, i want it to be even fight at the highest level, and gear must matter fully as this is a key moba differentiator.
      I want to beat them, but i dont want artificial help in doing so. It might never happen, but the game needs it Rock Stars and prestige kills.

      As a example this beta we lost maybe 10 gvg's to Elkites siege team this beta. And we kept watching the fights, then broke of to get more masteries understanding their importance, then we lost another 4 and kept learning and then we beat them 3 of the last 4 sieges we had.
      A team we found unbeatable became a team we could beat. The sense of accomplishment, and the validation of the time spend to get to that point is just the greatest joy of playing a game like this. This creates the sense of real achievement, and artificially lowering the best teams ability to perform is just wrong.
      Its ok to create things for the lower end with less risk and less reward, but please let the higher end guilds compete without artificial boundaries.

      If anyone is old enough to remember one of the greatest movies of all times - Top Gun:
      Viper: Good evening gentlemen, the temperature today is 28 degrees
      Maverick: Holy shit - its Viper.
      Goose: Yeah, he is probably going "Holy shit its Maverick and Goose" *nervous laugh*
      Maverick and goose dies.

      The initial feeling of meeting the rock stars of Albion, and how the adrenaline pumps more and you make stupid mistakes initially because you respect them to much. Its such a important part of competetive gaming

      Short comment became long, but the the risk in black hellgates be as high as now - just get the rewards up to par and it will all work like a charm

      thanks
      /Frank

      ps. Derrick, some day...
    • Ofcourse hellgates are dead and it's for multiple reasons.

      1) People want hellgates to be a somewhat fair fight of 5v5 with no advantages other than gear.
      2) You added lot's of places with highground in the hg giving almost no proper fighting space for a actual 5v5, one group basicly always falls back to the high ground making it that neither of the groups want to engage because of this.
      3) You wanted to make mobs have less of an impact in hellgates. While in reality the fact that mobs disengage quickly is nice. You actually just flooded the hg with mobs. In almost every *new* hg I've done so far mobs playd a role in one way or another. This because you can't disengage properly, you can't disengage to an open ground unless you cleared every single mob, and honistly what's the reason to clear all the mobs, because of the damage buff the bosses give you basicly have to rush them to keep it up. Conclusion: mobs have a bigger impact than ever in hgs now, with the old ones they rarely had an actual influence on the fight.
      4) You added a freaking dps buff. Since it only lasts 90 second one team will almost always not have it for the full duration of the time.
      There are always 2 scenarios:
      Either your team runs into another team whilst they're on the miniboss. -> other team kills it, they have the buff for 90sec + the highground. Whilst you team just came from another miniboss and your buff will be gone in about 60 seconds. So your buff will run out + you have the disadvantage of having the low ground making you have no reason to engage + no good engage.
      Or the other way around that the other team just came from the other boss and you have the advantage.
      Ofcourse in verry rare ocasions you run into eachother whilst you both came from a boss at the same time. But even then, mobs play a huge role since you can't spread and disengage properly.
      5) The loot is horrible, and t6 items is not something people in black hellgates are looking for. So even when that's fixed why would anyone do it for the loot of the bosses.
      6) Not really relative to hellgates directly but the blackmarket is pretty bad at the moment. Like comon why on earth would I sell my 8.1 bag for 21k silver?
      7) About the gear, just cap the hgs in red zones, people that don't want to run into high geared people can go there.

      And I'm pretty sure other people can add onto my list why hellgates are worse now.
      Easiest fix in my mind: remove all highgrounds, find a way for mobs not playing a role in the actual fights (remove them, make them not attack anyone in combat unless they're attacked, ...), remove the dps buff on pvp, keep it for the pve aspect of hellgates it's good for that, but please for the love of god don't make it have influence on pvp fights.
      Savage