New Feature: The Black Market

  • Kclikola wrote:

    Syndic wrote:

    Do the Devs seriously think it's a good idea to literally force everyone on the server to live in Caerleon? There is no point whatsoever to live anywhere else. It's just horrible design that will backfire, and there's no more "woops we made a mistake lets wipe and test more" after July 17th.
    I mentioned this in a past post. Its better the Devs decide what city is the main hub. I don't want a repeat of the last beta where Queensmarket was the main Hub. It was really bad considering where I started my island and all the runs I had to make just to get goods sold off. .
    Whats the point of having any other cities in-game on the royal continent at the moment? Anyone who doesn't settle in Caerleon in this state of the game is shooting themselves in the foot, because everything related to PVP (which is the point of the game) goes through Caerleon exclusively.
  • Syndic wrote:

    Whats the point of having any other cities in-game on the royal continent at the moment? Anyone who doesn't settle in Caerleon in this state of the game is shooting themselves in the foot, because everything related to PVP (which is the point of the game) goes through Caerleon exclusively.

    Distance between save points and new player comfort. Its mostly the old players that plans ahead that will start there in the beginning. But as the game grow, the other cities will grow as well. Not all ppls like the whole risk reward thing, but like all the other features of the game. So they will fill up the "Save towns".
  • Syndic wrote:

    Anyone who doesn't settle in Caerleon in this state of the game is shooting themselves in the foot, because everything related to PVP (which is the point of the game) goes through Caerleon exclusively.
    Funny, that the Black Market is a crafter feature and that the majority of crafters (outside of black zone guilds) will consist of casual players who are looking for a quality game with mixed views on pvp.

    So putting this feautre in the red pvp city is another denial of those peacful players. If we link low to mid tier black markets in all other cities, those players will at least have the chance to exeprience the feature while learning the game, until they are ready and rich enouch to venture to Caerlon for selling high tier items.

    Think about it.
  • PezDSpnzr wrote:

    risk vs reward @Archiemedis Albion isn't a peaceful world.

    Archiemedis wrote:

    those players will at least have the chance to exeprience the feature while learning the game, until they are ready and rich enouch to venture to Caerlon for selling high tier items.
    Albion is a sandbox pvp with step by step introduction of pvp. Putting the massive crafter feature behind red zones is alright for T6-8 items, but excluding this for new players is just dumb.

    We don't have green and black zones only, do we? Think of the learning curve, the pros of balancing player numbers in all cities, the huge amount of T2-5 being available as drops due to beginner crafters and a smooth learning curve for new players. This is a business

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Archiemedis ().

  • Syndic wrote:

    Do the Devs seriously think it's a good idea to literally force everyone on the server to live in Caerleon? There is no point whatsoever to live anywhere else. It's just horrible design that will backfire, and there's no more "woops we made a mistake lets wipe and test more" after July 17th.

    Furthermore, most of the population stopped playing already so how will you test the impact of Hector on the game? The servers lagged with population spread between blue towns, imagine how unplayable it will be when the floodgates open and everyone is going to Caerleon.

    You seriously need to bring the ports back. Keep everything in Hector, sure some of it isn't bad (even if it's evident you're trying to get more people to compete for GVG territories) but the only thing that could possibly spread the population is ports near the blue towns. Otherwise I don't know how the game will cope with everyone rushing to live in 1 town. 1k people in town lag fest? What if the game becomes a success and theres 4k people in prime time in Caerleon?

    Look at the big picture.
    Don't worry m8, they have every thing in control!
    Just lock ....

    Korn wrote:


    • When it comes to game performance, with some of the recent changes that we made, we are comfortable that we can support 750 players in a single city. We do not expect Caerleon to go beyond that, if it does, we have contingency plans that we can execute.
    Best regards,
    Korn
    See, the game is ok! The city can handle 750 players :)
    They have the numbers, they know!

    ps: i just hope the "contingency plans"... is not Blakcscreens for all of us! lol
  • I think 750 is nowhere near an accurate number, especially in the first weeks, before people spread to the black zones. This beta we've had 400+ people constantly in each of the cities for long periods of times. For a beta. Even keeping these numbers for launch, which would be delusional, with everyone going to Carleon it's going to be massively more than 750. Now consider all the people that haven't been active these beta + all the other players waiting for launch. Hazard a guess and the number will be in the high thousands for the first weeks.
  • So you people still dont realize, it doesnt matter how much they prepare themselves or even get it to 3000 per city...

    Every game launch ALWAYS goes rough. Never fails.... Just prepare to be patient and dont be one of those that cry on the forums when the servers are overloaded.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Elsa: language. ().

  • BRiCK wrote:

    So you people still dont realize, it doesnt matter how much they prepare themselves or even get it to 3000 per city...

    Every game launch ALWAYS goes rough. Never fails.... Just prepare to be patient and dont be one of those whiny fucks that cries on the forums when the servers are overloaded.

    Unfortunately m8, it will not only be in the launch of the game, that this problem will happen, with the course of the game more and more players will start to go to "the only city that really matters" and this will further aggravate the situation.

    Unless SI is counting on a good loss of players interest for the game, right from the start!
  • PezDSpnzr wrote:

    What I gleaned from this long-winded explanation of a simple concept is that they still have no idea what they are going to do with essences but they aren't removing them.
    You can turn essences to runes in future.

    Archiemedis wrote:

    Archiemedis wrote:

    those players will at least have the chance to exeprience the feature while learning the game, until they are ready and rich enouch to venture to Caerlon for selling high tier items.
    Albion is a sandbox pvp with step by step introduction of pvp. Putting the massive crafter feature behind red zones is alright for T6-8 items, but excluding this for new players is just dumb.
    We don't have green and black zones only, do we? Think of the learning curve, the pros of balancing player numbers in all cities, the huge amount of T2-5 being available as drops due to beginner crafters and a smooth learning curve for new players. This is a business
    I am or was excited about black market vendor concept, but placing it only to Caerleon was quite bad idea. It perhaps was just easy solution. I saw you suggested black market guy to biome cities which have orders up to T5 and i think this would be at least what should be done. Creating crafting tool, which does not reach all its crafter base is once again bit odd solution and i would like to hear the reasoning behind this. I dont see any negative sides to have black market vendor in every city, not a single one and that might even help those biome cities not to turn ghost towns (so easily).
  • Thomas9 wrote:

    PezDSpnzr wrote:

    What I gleaned from this long-winded explanation of a simple concept is that they still have no idea what they are going to do with essences but they aren't removing them.
    You can turn essences to runes in future.

    Archiemedis wrote:

    Archiemedis wrote:

    those players will at least have the chance to exeprience the feature while learning the game, until they are ready and rich enouch to venture to Caerlon for selling high tier items.
    Albion is a sandbox pvp with step by step introduction of pvp. Putting the massive crafter feature behind red zones is alright for T6-8 items, but excluding this for new players is just dumb.We don't have green and black zones only, do we? Think of the learning curve, the pros of balancing player numbers in all cities, the huge amount of T2-5 being available as drops due to beginner crafters and a smooth learning curve for new players. This is a business
    I am or was excited about black market vendor concept, but placing it only to Caerleon was quite bad idea. It perhaps was just easy solution. I saw you suggested black market guy to biome cities which have orders up to T5 and i think this would be at least what should be done. Creating crafting tool, which does not reach all its crafter base is once again bit odd solution and i would like to hear the reasoning behind this. I dont see any negative sides to have black market vendor in every city, not a single one and that might even help those biome cities not to turn ghost towns (so easily).
    I dont think biome cities will become ghost towns as long as there is new players and non combatants.

    The one reason i could see to only have the black market it caerleon is the potential to create a cycle of items moving to and from caerleon. I would like to see a vendor that bought blackmarket items at lower rate in the biome cities and then sold them in 'packages' to players who in turn transported them to the blackmarket in caerlon for a reward. These bundles could be looted in pvp and would decrease in value every hour until they turned to trash. This would be set up so that a little less money was distributed over all but to diffrent players.
    Start your adventure today!
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  • Thomas9 wrote:

    Creating crafting tool, which does not reach all its crafter base is once again bit odd solution
    I cannot stress enough, that the black market is a tool for crafters to sell and get paid.

    If we run a quick scenario with Caerlon only BM, there is a high chance for veteran crafters and small to big guild crafters, to leave T3-5 crafting aside as soon as T6-8 is available.
    • This would reduce the overall drops for T3-5 in the world
    • The incentive to move to Caerlon is actually only high for experienced players. New ones will struggle with the missing low tier mats, red pvp zones and thugs sticking around


    If we now do the same scenario with BM up to T5 in all cities (connected):
    • Beginner players will be able to use the feature as it was intended to (or should be); more T3-5 drops in the world for low tier players, better experience
    • Incentive to level up and move to Caerlon is there for all players to notice and work towards to
    • Literally no reduction in crafting exeprience for T5+ items, apart from some missing spikes in the T3-5 section
    • Players have more incentive to live in biome cities, reducing the heavy player load in Caerlon
    --------

    I do not see any negative effect on the hub function of Caerlon, or the elite crafter community getting a red zone BM up to T8. The portal gate way, outlaw function and T6 zones around are still drawing players in. The BM just adds on that.

    It feels like SI is simply starting at one side of the loop and want to test out how it goes, before adjusting. This suggestion could be one adjustment.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Archiemedis ().

  • Archiemedis wrote:

    Due to the nature of this feature (unique, connective, supporting), i want to stress that placing the BM only in Caerlon, will have a downside to it.

    + Obviously, we see more activity around red zones, increasing traffic and thus pvp. Thats what most of the pvp guys want
    - Negatively, a peaceful crafter - for whom the feature is a great blessing - has to move to the only red city, to make full use of the feature
    Fixed.

    Please stop putting false labels on people. A "peaceful crafter" is just as vicious in "Market PVP" (and prior to that in "gathering PVP") as that red-flagged guy who is trying to knock you off your Ox (LUL) and take your stuff in the red zone... Market PVP is also a form of PVP, especially in Sandbox games...

    So please stop dividing players into "good" or "evil" - this is a sandbox, and everyone wants to win and wants to be the best on their own (PVP) terms.

    Archiemedis wrote:

    I don't like that in particular. So i need to raise the question: Would a BM in every city hurt the function of
    a) the feature and
    b) Caerlons HUB functionality?
    Yes it will. This is called risk vs reward, and was already explained earlier in the thread. All Sandbox games revolve around risk-vs-reward concept (if you don't believe me - feel free to do more research). Absence of this concept is often observed in hand-holding theme park MMOs, which AO is not.

    Risk-vs-reward is the driving force that drives everything withing a sandbox environment. Nobody is "forcing" you to go to Carleon (thru red zones) for the best of profit margins. You are free to stay in Blue/Green only and craft/trade there. However - if you want the best silver and the best returns on your craftables - please accept some risk for your higher reward. That is the formula.

    Archiemedis wrote:

    Would a connecting Black Market System in every city hurt the overall feature? The intention to support crafters is literally cut in half, by pressing them into red, even for T4-5 gear.

    Suggestion



    Put a Black Market NPC for T2-5 in every city and T2-T8 only in Caerlon, or

    Link the BM to all cities
    Already explained...no need to theme park hand-holding MMO ideas. Risk vs reward. WOW is that way ->

    Syndic wrote:

    Do the Devs seriously think it's a good idea to literally force everyone on the server to live in Caerleon?
    You are in no way forced. You are not forced to do anything really...there is no "main quest" with a Lich Lord or some dragon baddie to kill at the end... this is an open world sandbox. You are free to do as you please...

    Did I forget to mention risk-vs reward though? :)

    Archiemedis wrote:

    Funny, that the Black Market is a crafter feature and that the majority of crafters (outside of black zone guilds) will consist of casual players who are looking for a quality game with mixed views on pvp.
    Funny that sandbox games are built around Risk-vs-Reward concept, isn't it? This is like the 4th time Im repeating myself...

    FYI Im a crafter and I dont live in a BZ guild. I also soloed pretty much most of the game so far. Im not complaining, and the harder the game for some people (how much harder can it get then soloing AO eh?), then that makes it easier for me...

    I can craft and gather T8...

    Archiemedis wrote:

    So putting this feautre in the red pvp city is another denial of those peacful players.
    Please stop with the peaceful players... there are no peaceful players in a Sandbox MMO. Once you can accept and live with this idea - the whole world will appear much friendlier and brighter...

    Every "peaceful" player will attempt to out-gather me or Market PVP me at any opportunity presented...such is the way of the Sandbox...




    Unless you are willing to stand in the middle of the city handing out free silver, and free gear (and gold?) to every passerby, maybe then I will call you a "peaceful" player...
  • Ranger_Dovefalcan wrote:

    I dont think biome cities will become ghost towns as long as there is new players and non combatants.
    The one reason i could see to only have the black market it caerleon is the potential to create a cycle of items moving to and from caerleon. I would like to see a vendor that bought blackmarket items at lower rate in the biome cities and then sold them in 'packages' to players who in turn transported them to the blackmarket in caerlon for a reward. These bundles could be looted in pvp and would decrease in value every hour until they turned to trash. This would be set up so that a little less money was distributed over all but to diffrent players.
    Trying to create such trading systems most likely looks better on paper than what it will actual happen in practise. Having efficient trading routes is a noble wish and thought, but usually these just dont work. Now devs are expecting to have intensive trading between Caerleon and biome cities, but i dont believe we are going to see much such trading. Of course there will be some, but like usually it just does not work that way. Mostly people gather resources all over the lands and returns to their main city, craft there and sell there. If devs implement that transport contract system at some point, that might help at least little bit i presume.
  • @Captainrussia Are you out of your mind? I just have to ask, because your arguments and comments does not make much sense and are totally irrelevant of most parts. You are just messing around with random writings and it just feels you are trying desperately protect something for unknown reasons. Like you are trying to protect system without any reasonable argument, which leads you to just make something up from your mind and post it with flow. Failed!