Fixing the Economy with an Anti Zerg Mechanic.

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    • Fixing the Economy with an Anti Zerg Mechanic.

      I have a bright idea that should benefit the game in more ways then one. I propose that your team develop a system that will trash more items the more players or grouped players hit you. MORE TRASH leads to a stronger economy.

      This provides a system that will discourage large groups just killing everyone they come across. If the group does attack and engage the gear is lost and the take is reduced, the pirate groups are less able to return and sell their take undercutting those who work hard to craft and place items on the market. So if a group of 5 (HG group) engages the trash rate would be normal but any more then that the trash rate goes up, and maybe more then just a little up, but exponentially go up. So players will still continue to engage in PK or course but this creates demand, and if gear is in less supply, they may be less encouraged to attack the solo gatherer/crafter, who only wants to make a living off the detriment of others needing to buy their gear in the first place. If piracy groups continue to over do this they cut off their own supply. For Guilds this creates a tactic where you can logistically starve or slow down their war efforts. Those guilds may also have to put pressure on protecting their gatherers. So your putting more dynamic into the game if you can continue to follow this idea and expand on that thought of a stronger healthier economy. Not to mention increasing the rarity of higher tier items, and relics. So fielding a relic item is something in it's self rather then a common thing.

      This also generates a system that increases the demand for a strong economy so resource market should balance out more. The market for gear gets some solid love as well by increasing the activity of someone crafting gear. The more gear is trashed the more work needed to be done to keep up. This added strain on the economy filters down to gatherers selling resources on the market. The crafter may have to purchase more resources to fill the demand or hire someone to do some gathering for them. So a player can actually feel like they are part of this living world where they are a blacksmith in this virtual reality where other players are in demand of their services. These players are more likely to come back to play and play longer as their services are needed, and feeling wanted is 1/2 the battle of keeping players in the game. The economy should never be flooded, and when it is players can expand or cross train some. Players will naturally cross train to add variety.

      So what this would help generate is a more living world where players actually have roles. A player can be a gatherer, a crafter, a soldier for their guild. A guild can organize and reward all parts more equally. A strong economy will balance the game out more keep players busy at their roles. Eliminating the learning point system will slow down the progression rate drastically and keep players focused on a role in the game or for their guild slow down progressing and encourage specialization with part time off roles. Players should feel at home and wanted in their role and only need to cross train for some off role they do, whether they are a off tank or part time soldier or part time healer/damage dealer for raid groups or guild wars. Or the other way around and soldiers could be part time gatherers or crafters for full time crafters or gatherers. Gathering may be a grind but it should also be an integral part of the game. These resource hot spots are great, just imagine a world where holding that resource node hotspot is an advantage worth fighting and defending. Gatherers out gathering, guards near by, a team transporting the goods back to the territory while the pick ax chips away. The crafter working hard screaming down he needs more, the soldiers screaming they need extra swords for the battle. The healer with his relic screaming for protection because if that relic is dropped from the field it could turn the tide of the war(and relics are not in strong supply VERY EXPENSIVE).

      All in all if you were to increase the trash rate along with other anti zerg mechanics you are working on you may just get a system that works in favor for everyone. certainly you will not stop everyone, and people will always complain. but with your plan to increase the density and appearance of rare supplies in the black zone and an increase in demand for supplies. players may have to venture into the black zone for those resources because demand has starved out the royal continent of rare enchanted materials. There is not enough rare supplies going around because they are needing to be replaced because they were trashed (not placed back on the market). These gatherers will do so because large piracy groups are less encouraged to kill them and get nothing for it only to cut off their own supplier. This along with your idea to implement a black market dealer to add item drops means a crafter can get HIS gear HIS NAME out there and the items will(may) be destroyed but they will remember the name and want more crafted.

      So this living environment continues, guilds can set ranks, roles, and build a more role playing environment. I feel like Albion is getting away from this dream virtual reality, to pleasing players who no matter what will complain for more content. they want more, but are not willing to go BZ. if players do not want to go BZ, they can supply the BZ with materials and goods less common in the BZ. Take farming out of the BZ maybe, let them be farmers lol. soft core life style right. but it is a role, and role they can play and feel at home in. and as long as demand is there they will continue to play, and occupy their off time with an off role(part time role). This game was on track for great things. don't lose sight of that. :) and revisit the Harbor Quay idea again. really???? portals is all you came up with??? making Caerleon a hub to black is like going back to the way the continents were set up before with ZERO travel time.

      Cole Hunter, Albion Fan.
    • Really great idea!

      Maybe that even brings a group to the point where they give you a 1v1 even if more people are around :) as a side effect...

      But trash is generated in red and black...what about yellow and green ?

      I don't have inside views on how the number of weapons/armor pieces increases in these zones, but to my understanding they can only go up, as they are never trashed, just repaired over and over.
      this means there is a saturation of those items reached for the players living in yellow/green - what happens to economy at that point ?

      Discussions about durability/chance to break on yellow/red dura status, etc. I have seen on the forum.

      Cheers,
      Skitted
    • To avoid mass trash of items in group fights - server system need to check if killed player was in group or solo, or he was in small group 2-3 ppl vs 5-9 and dynamically change the percentage of trashing. In ZvZ (more than 10 ppl from each side) trashing system can be the same as it is now. So it would force ppl to attack the same number of enemies as the number of players in your group.
    • Yes, lets keep adding artificial limitation to the game. This seems to be turning out to be a wonderful game the more rules and limits we put in....

      Your making something that isn't really a problem into a problem. I would like to hear people who specifically run outlands and not someone who sits in royals to say they have to much gear and the economy is going to shit.

      You know what SBI should do? Make outlands more attractive and pvp more attractive then maybe more people would be more willing to trash their gear to go out there.

      What your doing now, is scaring away mid level guilds because even if they fight in pvp or find a loot goblin that all that gear will trash.

      FIX THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM INSTEAD OF TRIMMING THE FUCKING TREE.
    • There would of course be balancing in the mechanic, and this new update will come with one or no cities in the black zone so gear will not be scarce and access to the gear will not be hard.

      Durability in gear has been discussed in a lot of threads, and is certainly a mechanic that could be used, but that involves more systems being tweaked like how repair works, repair tables, so on. is of course not out of the picture, but thats coding a whole new system into the game, the trash system is already there just needs adjusted. Durability won't immediately solve zerg rolling as well.

      I am simply thinking of a way to discourage a large group killing a single player or small group just because they are "on the way" or "an easy target". If you find joy in easy fights sure seems to me like the issues are not with fixing game issues but issues with oneself. If your out in the BZ looking for fights, find a decent fight not and easy one because you know you will win and won't loose your gear. In this case it is only the pirates and zergs who are afraid to loose gear because they will not fight a "decent" "good" fight. just the ones they know they will win. I simply discouraging this by making it not worth the while. A group can easily roll around and kill everyone till their bags are completely full and have a good pay day. Now no pay day. and the cost of supplies and gear goes up a little in the process. Their "business" model is based off of eve, and the trash/lose rate in that game is WAY WAY HIGHER that game has survived 13-14 years.

      Albion is in a great spot for its stage of development, sure 2-3 years seems like a while, but 10 years from now, Albion will still have updates and patches and more balancing being done. Players will come and go, but lets keep them from going before they really put some time in. Keeping the game alive and living like a real world. May be somewhat grindy but if it is alive and interactive community, players will stay. When your guild needs you, when you feel like you belong and you have that role to play.
    • I don't understand the issue if a zerg roles up and kills a solo gatherer? If your gathering in a known zerg area, get your lube ready. There are already tons of anti-zerg mechanics in the game and gear to help you out.

      It's been said before - the zergs don't just roll around in 20+ to roam empty zones for hours on end. If you happen to get shit on 1v20 learn your lesson and move on.
    • Even trashing more gear would be good for the economy, we have to remember that actually getting gear drops is the base idea of full loot system. So this coin really has two sides and if you restrict too much gear dropping chance, you will also frustrate some players and make the whole system feel pointless. So be carefull here devs, if you are going with this system, at least be gentle.
    • So basicly u wanna make so ZvZ only happens when there's:
      • Territory drops, where guilds fight over it (Loot Reward will be 0 if this is implemented)
      • World Bosses (Loot Reward will be 0 if this is implemented)
      Why would i want to fight another group without being any of this scenarios with this "Idea" if all the gear would thrash ?.

      I don't see where our economy is failing either, this is problably an issue withing reds, yellows and greens.

      Pretty sure that after Hector update, Economy will be strong in caerleon.

      As far as i remember, it was said this was suposed to be a "Hardcore PvP Game" High Risk, High Reward right ?

      • In the release the game overall population will increase, this will result in money to the Crafters/Gatherers
      • Its just not happening because people are slowly going away and waiting for release.
      Im actualy ok with the current system, even tho i prefered the items wouldn't thrash at all, giving skilled groups/persons their deserved loot.

      But if the devs are doing this, atleast make it so if the fight is fair the loot barely thrashes, (10v10,9v10,100v100)

      Still IMHO this thrash gear system shouldn't even been implemented. Other games survived without it, this one will as well.
      With Best Regards

      Nuno "SilentNJ" Jesus
    • The idea falls short due to an assumption that players kill for profit. Not all players do and this would empower the groups that adopt a policy to kill indiscriminately while those in dreamland doing this for profit will find themselves against the very thing they once were.

      Dead is dead.

      I hope there are more measures to insure huge mass players who group up for such a game experience as all this talk about restricting such groups is eerily familiar to how other MMORPGs turn out to be. This game has had an identity crisis for some time and it has come to fruition with the launch coming up.
    • Korn schrieb:

      Hi @ColeHunter

      thanks for the great feedback!

      I am happy to report that the suggestion of having the trash rate increase based on the number of players involved in the kill has been part of our feature backlog for some time now. We are aiming to get this into the game in time for release.

      Best regards,
      Korn
      Slowly killing your game and what it once was, taking the side of the carebears and just destroying end-game PvP content because gathers can't stand getting rolled on in black zones. Great, just great.


    • Robinhoodrs schrieb:

      Korn schrieb:

      Hi @ColeHunter

      thanks for the great feedback!

      I am happy to report that the suggestion of having the trash rate increase based on the number of players involved in the kill has been part of our feature backlog for some time now. We are aiming to get this into the game in time for release.

      Best regards,
      Korn
      Slowly killing your game and what it once was, taking the side of the carebears and just destroying end-game PvP content because gathers can't stand getting rolled on in black zones. Great, just great.
      Beta 1 > Beta 3 > Release > Beta 2
    • This is a great idea. As long as the trash increase is generous and not too excessive, many zergs will leave solo players alone. It will not affect all zergs, cause many groups kill only for getting the kill and not for the loot, but it does helps a bit. It does also helps the economy, cause more trashed gear = more gear players will have to craft and sell.

      This is not a penalty to pvp as some people have stated, this is a penalty to zergs who like to abuse smaller groups who has no chance of fighting.

      But just as some one mentioned in the posts above, this need to be well balanced. Too much trash increment and it could hurt big scale pvp.
    • Korn schrieb:

      I am happy to report that the suggestion of having the trash rate increase based on the number of players involved in the kill has been part of our feature backlog for some time now. We are aiming to get this into the game in time for release.
      Trouble is that you run into the same issue as with the trampled ground debuff: what happens in 20v20 battles?

      If it's okay that there's no usable loot left over in zerg on zerg battles, this system works great. And if ZvZ was seen as battles over territory or castles, rather than to gain loot, this makes a lot of sense.
    • Lensar schrieb:

      Robinhoodrs schrieb:

      Slowly killing your game and what it once was, taking the side of the carebears and just destroying end-game PvP content because gathers can't stand getting rolled on in black zones. Great, just great.
      If you feel the need to 10v1 people, you might be better off playing a single player game instead of MMO pvp. Preferable one that provides cheat codes.
      Yes because when the end-game PvP content changes, such as massive ZvZ fights and castle fights because of gathers crying over getting ganked by groups in Black Zones, then yes there's the issue. Why should guilds taking part in massive fights be punished by not receiving full loot from the other guild?


    • Robinhoodrs schrieb:

      Yes because when the end-game PvP content changes, such as massive ZvZ fights and castle fights because of gathers crying over getting ganked by groups in Black Zones, then yes there's the issue. Why should guilds taking part in massive fights be punished by not receiving full loot from the other guild?
      Why should guilds taking part in massive fights for huge meta rewards, receive loot from other guilds at all?

      Are you saying people will stop fighting over cities and castles if they can't receive full loot from enemy guilds? Are there not enough built in incentives to make guilds want to control these areas?