Fixing the Economy with an Anti Zerg Mechanic.

  • The trash rate is high enough. If you want more trash then bring back mob execute rather than adding more things to discourage PvP. If you want less 10v1 then LOWER the trash rate so people don't trash so much gear fighting each other that they start looking for low hanging fruit instead. I don't play games with a 30% rake unless I have a 31% advantage.
  • Korn wrote:


    thanks for the great feedback!

    I am happy to report that the suggestion of having the trash rate increase based on the number of players involved in the kill has been part of our feature backlog for some time now. We are aiming to get this into the game in time for release.

    Best regards,
    Korn

    bad pvpers seem to be salty about that.
    good thing it is.
    if you need a zerg to kill someone, then you shouldnt pvp at all.
    Artificial intelligence will never beat natural stupidiy.
  • Korn wrote:

    Hi @ColeHunter

    thanks for the great feedback!

    I am happy to report that the suggestion of having the trash rate increase based on the number of players involved in the kill has been part of our feature backlog for some time now. We are aiming to get this into the game in time for release.

    Best regards,
    Korn
    It needs to be clarified if an even fight say 40 v 40 or 20 v 20 where one person has 15+ assists if his gear has more gear breakage as if it was a 15v1.

    This is the main issue I believe people are worried about. No one really gives a fuck about if a gatherers gear breaks when he gets gang raped.

    Zergs will still gang rape you to prevent you from "stealing" resources from lands the claim as theirs.

    I don't really understand how some people think they should be entitled to harvest t7-8 and not think they are stealing from the guild who claim that area of the map. The end game is about resource and land - quit being so salty.
  • ColeHunter wrote:

    I have a bright idea that should benefit the game in more ways then one. I propose that your team develop a system that will trash more items the more players or grouped players hit you. MORE TRASH leads to a stronger economy.

    This provides a system that will discourage large groups just killing everyone they come across. If the group does attack and engage the gear is lost and the take is reduced, the pirate groups are less able to return and sell their take undercutting those who work hard to craft and place items on the market. So if a group of 5 (HG group) engages the trash rate would be normal but any more then that the trash rate goes up, and maybe more then just a little up, but exponentially go up. So players will still continue to engage in PK or course but this creates demand, and if gear is in less supply, they may be less encouraged to attack the solo gatherer/crafter, who only wants to make a living off the detriment of others needing to buy their gear in the first place. If piracy groups continue to over do this they cut off their own supply. For Guilds this creates a tactic where you can logistically starve or slow down their war efforts. Those guilds may also have to put pressure on protecting their gatherers. So your putting more dynamic into the game if you can continue to follow this idea and expand on that thought of a stronger healthier economy. Not to mention increasing the rarity of higher tier items, and relics. So fielding a relic item is something in it's self rather then a common thing.

    This also generates a system that increases the demand for a strong economy so resource market should balance out more. The market for gear gets some solid love as well by increasing the activity of someone crafting gear. The more gear is trashed the more work needed to be done to keep up. This added strain on the economy filters down to gatherers selling resources on the market. The crafter may have to purchase more resources to fill the demand or hire someone to do some gathering for them. So a player can actually feel like they are part of this living world where they are a blacksmith in this virtual reality where other players are in demand of their services. These players are more likely to come back to play and play longer as their services are needed, and feeling wanted is 1/2 the battle of keeping players in the game. The economy should never be flooded, and when it is players can expand or cross train some. Players will naturally cross train to add variety.

    So what this would help generate is a more living world where players actually have roles. A player can be a gatherer, a crafter, a soldier for their guild. A guild can organize and reward all parts more equally. A strong economy will balance the game out more keep players busy at their roles. Eliminating the learning point system will slow down the progression rate drastically and keep players focused on a role in the game or for their guild slow down progressing and encourage specialization with part time off roles. Players should feel at home and wanted in their role and only need to cross train for some off role they do, whether they are a off tank or part time soldier or part time healer/damage dealer for raid groups or guild wars. Or the other way around and soldiers could be part time gatherers or crafters for full time crafters or gatherers. Gathering may be a grind but it should also be an integral part of the game. These resource hot spots are great, just imagine a world where holding that resource node hotspot is an advantage worth fighting and defending. Gatherers out gathering, guards near by, a team transporting the goods back to the territory while the pick ax chips away. The crafter working hard screaming down he needs more, the soldiers screaming they need extra swords for the battle. The healer with his relic screaming for protection because if that relic is dropped from the field it could turn the tide of the war(and relics are not in strong supply VERY EXPENSIVE).

    All in all if you were to increase the trash rate along with other anti zerg mechanics you are working on you may just get a system that works in favor for everyone. certainly you will not stop everyone, and people will always complain. but with your plan to increase the density and appearance of rare supplies in the black zone and an increase in demand for supplies. players may have to venture into the black zone for those resources because demand has starved out the royal continent of rare enchanted materials. There is not enough rare supplies going around because they are needing to be replaced because they were trashed (not placed back on the market). These gatherers will do so because large piracy groups are less encouraged to kill them and get nothing for it only to cut off their own supplier. This along with your idea to implement a black market dealer to add item drops means a crafter can get HIS gear HIS NAME out there and the items will(may) be destroyed but they will remember the name and want more crafted.

    So this living environment continues, guilds can set ranks, roles, and build a more role playing environment. I feel like Albion is getting away from this dream virtual reality, to pleasing players who no matter what will complain for more content. they want more, but are not willing to go BZ. if players do not want to go BZ, they can supply the BZ with materials and goods less common in the BZ. Take farming out of the BZ maybe, let them be farmers lol. soft core life style right. but it is a role, and role they can play and feel at home in. and as long as demand is there they will continue to play, and occupy their off time with an off role(part time role). This game was on track for great things. don't lose sight of that. :) and revisit the Harbor Quay idea again. really???? portals is all you came up with??? making Caerleon a hub to black is like going back to the way the continents were set up before with ZERO travel time.

    Cole Hunter, Albion Fan.
    I am not sure if this is a good idea. To be honest, I would say that it should be the other way around. No trash items at all. It does not matter if you zerged someone or fought them 1v1 and you won. You entered an area where you risked losing everything you had on you and that should be rewarded.

    If you really want to fix the economy then durability should be introduced so items could break from time to time. i would add a higher chance of something breaking when it turns yellow/red.

    The other thing would be to have the ability to have 1 skill attached to weapons, armors etc. now, you can just switch between these skills attached to your equipment. That way you should craft more items.
  • Skitted wrote:

    You are right, yellow doesn't make sense - why do you think its vain and unfair ? It should improve what SI intended the red zone to be - solo/small group PVP zone.
    Well redzones are under 10% of the whole landmass so the effect would be quite small and almost something that should in that case even consider to implement. It would once again favor other players/guilds over others which is something we dont need in any case. It does not improve red zones, it just complicates even more what those are already with complex reputation system/anti-zerg mechanics. I just think that mechanic which raise gear trashing and lowers actually loots is just wrong way to try get things better.
  • So coming back over the reviews, I have reviewed note worthy comments.

    First off I would like to keep in mind I have no wish to end ZvZ, quite the opposite, If you want to ZvZ Then why Zv1. I want them to think before they stop to trash everyone they come across. I myself have been apart of a 40v1, HERE<-click. And while sure it was a laugh there was no point they were just caught along the way, even now players have the ability to escape with a chance to avoid, but inevitably only delaying their demise 1-3 minutes at best with a small chance to get away. Certainly some players will not stop but more often then not they will want to see what they have.

    This can be done by increasing trash rate based on party size, involved parties, so on. More unbalanced the fight is the more unbalanced the reward. Trash the gear, trash some of the gathered materials, gather didn't spend an hour in the field just so someone else can take off with his entire haul. You want the gear and materials get the guild logistics on it or let the system work by letting some gatherers go so you can purchase their gear or materials off the market.

    The system heavily leans towards it's PvP, WAY towards it. which is good thats what the game is all about, but I play both sides of the field, and others share my concern specially those fully focused on gathering and crafter who are playing markets watching and waiting, and waiting. Now as it stands i see it is better then last beta, where only the most common, T4 & T6 seem to take hits, and T8 is either marginally higher, or double what T7 is. However I cannot see how many orders are being filled compared to how many are just sitting there because no is willing to pay it. but getting a bit off point here. How do we as a community ensure an ever struggle for T7-T8 gear six+ months down the road. As more and more gear floods the market, and prices continue to drop how do we ensure that after a year of playing every player running around in the same gear do we, as a community, ensure that the price of a T8 set doesn't become the price of a T5 set. even more so when the price of T5 gear becomes nothing because the only reason to wear it is because you are remastering your craft/meta what have you call it. How do we keep the economy stable??

    I understand the effects this can have in a ZvZ setting, but when in a ZvZ setting is the gear more important? I've heard that same thing, "stop looting, stop looting, push push push". hmmm.... but i don't want to screw with ZvZ, just unmatched combat to discourage Zv1.

    And i also resort to my original post about creating a living world where a crafter never has to get bored with his job, because he has come to a game where his role in this living world is a "Blacksmith" or "Weaver", Or even just a Hard working Miner, or Hunter. That you have worked so hard to get to your level of skill in the game that it was worth it and will remain so. That as a "Blacksmith" Mining is primary activity, Crafting secondary(doesn't take much to craft), and any alternate roll you may play in your guild such as combat is just a secondary skill you may not have mastered. and it certainly is cool to be a self sustainable player but, why MMO if that is you aim is to go solo at T7-T8. Dev team, keep it in mind, living world, economy, trash rates. and if 15 ppl jump a few, why give them gear to much gear to divide anyway.


    I have seen improvements from last beta already but there are to many variables influencing what I would consider Stable statistics. It would be to hard at this point to determine what it will look like after launch. Many players are waiting, many are carelessly purchasing gold and spending it freely. The population in the game will be different for example. So it will be great to see what happens, even better to know that I can fill a role in a guild that keeps me involved and busy working hard, as one would working for an empire on the front lines(PvX), in the field,(Gathering) or in the shop(Crafting). ANyway, post little slanted and covered to many ideas in one post, hope we still see an increase in trash rate.
  • Wadefu wrote:

    Korn wrote:

    Hi @ColeHunter

    thanks for the great feedback!

    I am happy to report that the suggestion of having the trash rate increase based on the number of players involved in the kill has been part of our feature backlog for some time now. We are aiming to get this into the game in time for release.

    Best regards,
    Korn
    It needs to be clarified if an even fight say 40 v 40 or 20 v 20 where one person has 15+ assists if his gear has more gear breakage as if it was a 15v1.
    This is the main issue I believe people are worried about. No one really gives a fuck about if a gatherers gear breaks when he gets gang raped.

    Zergs will still gang rape you to prevent you from "stealing" resources from lands the claim as theirs.

    I don't really understand how some people think they should be entitled to harvest t7-8 and not think they are stealing from the guild who claim that area of the map. The end game is about resource and land - quit being so salty.
    @Wadefu, This thus far has been one of the only worthy counter arguements i've crossed, I could completely understand a guild defending it's territory and looking at as theft. Last I looked however One guild controlled 3-4x the amount of territories as the next leading guild. Beta aside, they have been in that position since I first picked up albion. which just goes to show that once they are their who knocks them off that throne? If your the only one controlling end game content. Personally have not needed to go there, but i am a ways from needing T8 materials. Still however, trash the gear, some of the materials along with it. If you don't they would simply let them in to harvest and kill them on the way out take the materials for themselves.

    If I recall there was once this idea of taxing materials harvested.... Remember that post during Beta 2 when they wanted to reintroduce towers back into the redzones there was some discussion into rewarding the owning guild with something along those lines..... might be a ways from coding, maybe not, but but..... Tax not theft. well maybe both... anyway... what 2 more weeks, look forward to the race.
  • Korn wrote:

    Hi @ColeHunter

    thanks for the great feedback!

    I am happy to report that the suggestion of having the trash rate increase based on the number of players involved in the kill has been part of our feature backlog for some time now. We are aiming to get this into the game in time for release.

    Best regards,
    Korn
    going to necro this, why was this feature never added?

    along with allience size restrictions.

    my suggestion would be blackzone 5-7% trash rate per player assist.

    and red zone 15-20% per assist

    this would make red zones more appropriate for small guilds (5-7), and black more appropriate for larger guilds (15+) by removing incentive to bring as many players as possible to fights.

    the only time 15+ zergs should be viable is when fighting for objectives, the loot shouldnt be a factor.

    with these changes you should be asking yourself whether its really worth it.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by heyw0od ().

  • Agreed, especially if this was planned anyway. It makes sense not to reward a group of 10 players very highly for killing 1 since this carries little risk to them and is easy in most cases. Zergs should only be rewarded for fighting over objectives or other zergs.
    If you are worried about to much backlash from zerg fighters there could always be some type of reversed mechanic as well where if the killer was also talking damage from many sources the rate wouldn't be as high.
  • Because this was an old solution they had considered. since then they’ve explored other avenues and opportunities that provided adequate solutions.

    Just cause they considered it once in a past iteration of the game doesn’t mean it’s a good solution in the current game.

    Notice how this idea is over a year old? From before launch. Before hundreds of changes were introduced.
  • @owensssss when one of the most popular posts on reddit this week is about zergs reaching the zone cap, id say a valid solution has still has yet to be made.

    this suggestion isnt an enforced mechanic like blobbing, its more about creating incentive, which i think is a lot healthier for game.

    additionally, assists dont take into account which guild, or party, or allience youre in, an assist is an assist, and it would be incredibly hard to bypass.

    a lot harder than splitting your zerg into smaller groups is.
  • heyw0od wrote:

    @owensssss when one of the most popular posts on reddit this week is about zergs reaching the zone cap, id say a valid solution has still has yet to be made.

    this suggestion isnt an enforced mechanic like blobbing, its more about creating incentive, which i think is a lot healthier for game.

    additionally, assists dont take into account which guild, or party, or allience youre in, an assist is an assist, and it would be incredibly hard to bypass.

    a lot harder than splitting your zerg into smaller groups is.
    You just dont get it man we dont like your ideas and necroing threads won't change it, why, because they are bad ideas. Dying is part of the game losing your gear is part of the game zerging is part of the game having friends, having common goals all part of the game. You want fairness, but most everyone is here because the game isnt fair, it makes you put your big boy pants on. you aren't the hero you wont always win. learn from your loss. do you know your limits?
  • Korn wrote:

    Hi @ColeHunter

    thanks for the great feedback!

    I am happy to report that the suggestion of having the trash rate increase based on the number of players involved in the kill has been part of our feature backlog for some time now. We are aiming to get this into the game in time for release.

    Best regards,
    Korn
    Very good suggestion, hope this will be implemented.

    Do it also the other way. Decrease the trash rate, if a small team wins against a big team, so it will rewarded.

    This would generate a motivation/demotivation balance depending on the numbers of players on each side. The effect of a descreasing trash rate (next to the increasing) would be if big groups want fight small, but the small group plays better and wins, they will be rewarded for this!

    So finally:
    Skill > Zerg. With the side effect of economic balance. And a lot of more benefits!

    By the way: This does not mean solo gatheres cannot be killed. They can be and should be of course. Just the reward is not this big for any mass zergs. But small groups (3-4 people) roaming and killing solo gatherers should still be viable. The balance needs to be tested well.
  • EaosAmur wrote:

    Dying is part of the game losing your gear is part of the game zerging is part of the game having friends, having common goals all part of the game. You want fairness, but most everyone is here because the game isnt fair, it makes you put your big boy pants on. you aren't the hero you wont always win. learn from your loss. do you know your limits?
    Have you read the post? This change wouldn't do anything to directly help a solo player or small group not get rolled by a zerg. It just *slightly* reduces the incentives for people to zerg around all day.
    If people want to keep zerging because that's what they find fun, they keep right on zerging. However, it will encourage some who zerged simply for the profits of it to go try something else. This adds variety and as such improves the overall health of the game.
    And as far as lore/realism/whateveryouwanttocallit, it makes sense that your gear would take more damage getting destroyed by 20 people then just dying to 2 or 3.
    I for one think that this is a change that is needed and well in line with the spirit of the game.
  • @EaosAmur every reply you've given me has just been "your suggestion is bad" followed by a load of nonsense that isnt related to my suggestion.

    Everybody else here contributes but you.

    @owensssss' who disagrees with me is giving valid arguments, and contributing to the discussion.

    read my post tell me exactly is wrong with it, why it is bad for the game,which ways it would be exploitable, why you think it is against the games philosophy..

    until then nothing you say is going to be taken seriously..