Is it allowed to scan your internet trafic and pick up logs

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  • Director wrote:

    Access wrote:

    ...

    As a side note about the claim made that this could somehow be encrypted, it would't change anything, If the client is to use the data at some point, it will need to decrypt it anyway. If the client can decrypt it, it means it has the key. If the client has the key, so does anyone with access to the computer the client is on. It's the same reason why ebooks DRM is a joke.
    Yeah I've always wondered if that was an issue...
    If you have to access the clients memory to get past the encryption, then you might be violating different parts of the ToS.

  • Hey guys,

    first of all thank you for asking before actually doing anything.

    Our position is quite simple. As long as you just look and analyze we are ok with it. The moment you modify or manipulate something or somehow interfere with our services we will react (e.g. perma-ban, take legal action, whatever).

    As some of you have already pointed out, using WireShark or silimar tools to analyze network traffic is undetectable from our end and we therefore do not consider it an offense. The network packets do not contain any secret information, it is basically all stuff you can see on screen in the game in some form. If you wanna build a tool based on that - fine.

    HOWEVER, any manipulation of the client or any form of "bot" will not be tolerated. E.g. if you are playing with the idea to automatically pull data from ingame marketplaces in regular intervals - yeah, that is a bot. This bot would produce traffic and data access on our end and therefor we cannot allow this.

    And before you ask - yes, some form of API is still on our roadmap, but I cannot give you an ETA on that. We have already added statistics and the kill boards to the web site and we will continue to add stuff like that in the future.

    Hope this clarifies it.

    David

  • MadDave wrote:

    Hey guys,

    first of all thank you for asking before actually doing anything.

    Our position is quite simple. As long as you just look and analyze we are ok with it. The moment you modify or manipulate something or somehow interfere with our services we will react (e.g. perma-ban, take legal action, whatever).

    As some of you have already pointed out, using WireShark or silimar tools to analyze network traffic is undetectable from our end and we therefore do not consider it an offense. The network packets do not contain any secret information, it is basically all stuff you can see on screen in the game in some form. If you wanna build a tool based on that - fine.

    HOWEVER, any manipulation of the client or any form of "bot" will not be tolerated. E.g. if you are playing with the idea to automatically pull data from ingame marketplaces in regular intervals - yeah, that is a bot. This bot would produce traffic and data access on our end and therefor we cannot allow this.

    And before you ask - yes, some form of API is still on our roadmap, but I cannot give you an ETA on that. We have already added statistics and the kill boards to the web site and we will continue to add stuff like that in the future.

    Hope this clarifies it.

    David
    OK... this reply changes what I am working on. Thank you very much for the response, really appreciate it! :) Now to learn packet capture with Go or Python... and there goes my weekend. Whelp.
    Twitter: https://twitter.com/regnerba
    Website: https://albion.regnerba.com

  • FoxFour wrote:

    MadDave wrote:

    Hey guys,

    first of all thank you for asking before actually doing anything.

    Our position is quite simple. As long as you just look and analyze we are ok with it. The moment you modify or manipulate something or somehow interfere with our services we will react (e.g. perma-ban, take legal action, whatever).

    As some of you have already pointed out, using WireShark or silimar tools to analyze network traffic is undetectable from our end and we therefore do not consider it an offense. The network packets do not contain any secret information, it is basically all stuff you can see on screen in the game in some form. If you wanna build a tool based on that - fine.

    HOWEVER, any manipulation of the client or any form of "bot" will not be tolerated. E.g. if you are playing with the idea to automatically pull data from ingame marketplaces in regular intervals - yeah, that is a bot. This bot would produce traffic and data access on our end and therefor we cannot allow this.

    And before you ask - yes, some form of API is still on our roadmap, but I cannot give you an ETA on that. We have already added statistics and the kill boards to the web site and we will continue to add stuff like that in the future.

    Hope this clarifies it.

    David
    OK... this reply changes what I am working on. Thank you very much for the response, really appreciate it! :) Now to learn packet capture with Go or Python... and there goes my weekend. Whelp.
    github.com/google/gopacket/
    you can start with this :)

  • Write your program and use winpcap. Your program uploads any data scanned locally to a database. Allow others to sign up to see your auction house database. To use it they must also run your program to login. They in turn load any searches on their auction house searches to your database, etc. This way you constantly have updated information without a bot polling the servers. Users generate all the data naturally. The more users the more reliable the data.

    Of course APIs would be better. But there is also a consideration that auction house databases would ruin the game as computers could instantly crunch any data leading to pricing and trades. This would prevent the average person from ever really making money off the AH as a few select players using this could ruin things. This type of data ultimately leads to price fixing and entire market manipulation.
    Just a Goon nobody..

  • MadDave wrote:

    Hey guys,

    first of all thank you for asking before actually doing anything.

    Our position is quite simple. As long as you just look and analyze we are ok with it. The moment you modify or manipulate something or somehow interfere with our services we will react (e.g. perma-ban, take legal action, whatever).

    As some of you have already pointed out, using WireShark or silimar tools to analyze network traffic is undetectable from our end and we therefore do not consider it an offense. The network packets do not contain any secret information, it is basically all stuff you can see on screen in the game in some form. If you wanna build a tool based on that - fine.

    HOWEVER, any manipulation of the client or any form of "bot" will not be tolerated. E.g. if you are playing with the idea to automatically pull data from ingame marketplaces in regular intervals - yeah, that is a bot. This bot would produce traffic and data access on our end and therefor we cannot allow this.

    And before you ask - yes, some form of API is still on our roadmap, but I cannot give you an ETA on that. We have already added statistics and the kill boards to the web site and we will continue to add stuff like that in the future.

    Hope this clarifies it.

    David
    @MadDave so when will your interface support showing seller names pre sale?

    I hope it's in your next UI iteration or your statement is wrong.

    Secondly. You just allowed your server pop to run a program in the background that scrapes AH data that is much more than anyone will ever note or write down by hand ; also encouraging 'a few' extra searches here and there to generate more AH data.

    You basically have set the stage for an uneven playing field for people that can use AH tools and those who can not.

  • Also, does it count as client manipulation if I write a bot that copy pastes item names into the game and presses enter while having the AH window open?

    Any developer who wants to write an AH scraper bot I mean tool what will put all my searches into a database, please contact me. I will definitely pay in-game gold and maybe real life money to use your services and tools.

  • Bogul wrote:

    Also, does it count as client manipulation if I write a bot that copy pastes item names into the game and presses enter while having the AH window open?

    Any developer who wants to write an AH scraper bot I mean tool what will put all my searches into a database, please contact me. I will definitely pay in-game gold and maybe real life money to use your services and tools.
    Yeah, it's a lot of work for a system that you're talking about. And there's no gaurantee it will work after game updates or upon release.
    Not worth the investment atm imo. I mean fuck, I'm flippin cabbage soups for 500%, what y'all need a bot for right now. lol

  • Bogul wrote:

    Also, does it count as client manipulation if I write a bot that copy pastes item names into the game and presses enter while having the AH window open?

    Any developer who wants to write an AH scraper bot I mean tool what will put all my searches into a database, please contact me. I will definitely pay in-game gold and maybe real life money to use your services and tools.
    From my understanding you need to search manually. A bot that presses "enter" for you is... well... a bot.

    Director wrote:

    Bogul wrote:

    Also, does it count as client manipulation if I write a bot that copy pastes item names into the game and presses enter while having the AH window open?

    Any developer who wants to write an AH scraper bot I mean tool what will put all my searches into a database, please contact me. I will definitely pay in-game gold and maybe real life money to use your services and tools.
    Yeah, it's a lot of work for a system that you're talking about. And there's no gaurantee it will work after game updates or upon release.Not worth the investment atm imo. I mean fuck, I'm flippin cabbage soups for 500%, what y'all need a bot for right now. lol
    It's really easy to do, this is smaller than many homeworks I had as an undergrad. I'm just done with the part of the program that sniffs the packets, recombines them and parses the jsons. Now I just need to build the database and add some easy to use search and graphing utility which I'll try to do this weekend if I've got time.

    I think we can expect a couple of those to be around by release, OP's guild is already ahead, somebody will probably take up bogul's offer and a few others expressed interest in trying to build one in this tread. Maybe one will take over with a website or something, depends if people want to keep the advantage for themselves or share it.

    For updates, they need to send the data one way or another so there is not much they can do that would make it impossible to sniff. Also from their posts, it's much more likely they will add an API than start making it harder to read.
    I guess you could say, it might be suggested, some argue, it's been hinted, that EoS wins again.

    The post was edited 4 times, last by Access ().

  • Access wrote:

    Director wrote:

    Bogul wrote:

    Also, does it count as client manipulation if I write a bot that copy pastes item names into the game and presses enter while having the AH window open?

    Any developer who wants to write an AH scraper bot I mean tool what will put all my searches into a database, please contact me. I will definitely pay in-game gold and maybe real life money to use your services and tools.
    Yeah, it's a lot of work for a system that you're talking about. And there's no gaurantee it will work after game updates or upon release.Not worth the investment atm imo. I mean fuck, I'm flippin cabbage soups for 500%, what y'all need a bot for right now. lol
    It's really easy to do, this is smaller than many homeworks I had as an undergrad. I'm just done with the part of the program that sniffs the packets, recombines them and parses the jsons. Now I just need to build the database and add some easy to use search and graphing utility which I'll try to do this weekend if I've got time.
    I think we can expect a couple of those to be around by release, OP's guild is already ahead, somebody will probably take up bogul's offer and a few others expressed interest in trying to build one in this tread. Maybe one will take over with a website or something, depends if people want to keep the advantage for themselves or share it.

    For updates, they need to send the data one way or another so there is not much they can do that would make it impossible to sniff. Also from their posts, it's much more likely they will add an API than start making it harder to read.
    Well said ;P haven't dealt much with network sniffing myself so I assumed it was a hassle. They are pretty much forced to make an API if they do anything imo, making it harder to read is a waste of time as people who know how to code/encrypt will re-break it over and over. Hopefully it will be fun to use/work with.

  • AcOrP wrote:

    FoxFour wrote:

    MadDave wrote:

    Hey guys,

    first of all thank you for asking before actually doing anything.

    Our position is quite simple. As long as you just look and analyze we are ok with it. The moment you modify or manipulate something or somehow interfere with our services we will react (e.g. perma-ban, take legal action, whatever).

    As some of you have already pointed out, using WireShark or silimar tools to analyze network traffic is undetectable from our end and we therefore do not consider it an offense. The network packets do not contain any secret information, it is basically all stuff you can see on screen in the game in some form. If you wanna build a tool based on that - fine.

    HOWEVER, any manipulation of the client or any form of "bot" will not be tolerated. E.g. if you are playing with the idea to automatically pull data from ingame marketplaces in regular intervals - yeah, that is a bot. This bot would produce traffic and data access on our end and therefor we cannot allow this.

    And before you ask - yes, some form of API is still on our roadmap, but I cannot give you an ETA on that. We have already added statistics and the kill boards to the web site and we will continue to add stuff like that in the future.

    Hope this clarifies it.

    David
    OK... this reply changes what I am working on. Thank you very much for the response, really appreciate it! :) Now to learn packet capture with Go or Python... and there goes my weekend. Whelp.
    github.com/google/gopacket/ you can start with this :)
    Yup! That is exactly what I am looking into. My goal is to rebuild EMDR (EVE Market Data Relay) for Albion. EMDR was essentially deprecated when CCP released a market API but before that for many years EMDR had clients installed with most EVE players, there was a client packaged into a popular program called EVE Mon. The EMDR client would monitor market information, submit it to EMDR and that would get distributed. It was a truly wonderful thing and powered the most popular market site EVE Central.

    The hardest part will be convincing enough people to install a client that scrapes this data and passes it on. Hopefully if I can provide a good enough market service that will help. It really only works when you have a large number of people installing the client though. Everything I do though tends to be in the open so if I do complete this and release it I will keep the API open so people can pull the market data into their own applications or web sites. I think the most important thing will be for the community to have a single source of this information so it is as complete as possible.

    I have never done any packet sniffing stuff before so this might take me some time though.

    p.s. If anyone is interested in helping let me know. As I said everything I do will be in the open on GitHub and publicly available but any and all help appreciated.
    Twitter: https://twitter.com/regnerba
    Website: https://albion.regnerba.com

  • Found some time today to start on a market client of some kind. It is just some prototype work to figure out how to parse the data from the network packets. Rough work can be found here: github.com/Regner/amdr-client

    Will try to finish up a working version of it tonight and then start figuring out some kind of backend to receive the data. Ideally I think the backend will be entirely independent of any kind of frontend. That way the backend for this will receive the data and push it to anyone that wants the data. I, and anyone else that wants, can then build a market site or application by subscribing to the pushes. Thats the idea anyways!
    Twitter: https://twitter.com/regnerba
    Website: https://albion.regnerba.com