Hellgates: Upcoming New Map and Improvements

  • Yes, whole HG concept is basically a MOBA minigame within the MMO world of Albion...

    Donaramu wrote:

    Captainrussia wrote:

    HypeRNT wrote:

    "depending on scenario" there shouldn't be a scenario in a hell gate where 1 team has a buff that helps your PvP and the other does not... thats my whole point... I dont want to ever have a conversation about, well sorry boys, we were better but depending on scenario they had a buff that rekt us.

    Donaramu wrote:

    It's the "depending on scenario." part I dislike... Thanks, but no
    Ever seen DOTA or DOTA2 roshan?
    /thread
    We're playing a MOBA? I dislike dota.. well HOTS= better


    No wonder they sometimes refer to AO as MMOBA
  • HypeRNT wrote:

    Kostan wrote:

    HypeRNT wrote:

    just wondering whose idea was it to give u a buff after killing a boss while saying something along the lines of " we dont want PvE mobs effecting PvP, so this change will be much better"
    Not working as intended during test.
    You zone in with the buff, mini bosses to maintain it.

    Empty HG? Faster now due to buff.
    PvP? Both teams should have it depending on scenario.
    "depending on scenario" there shouldn't be a scenario in a hell gate where 1 team has a buff that helps your PvP and the other does not... thats my whole point... I dont want to ever have a conversation about, well sorry boys, we were better but depending on scenario they had a buff that rekt us.
    The whole argument was that mobs or anything else should not have influence over PvP.... This literally is the exact opposite of desired goal... Now im basing this on your words and the stream, even with it not working as intended, no buff should be in hell gates that can increase your chances of winning in a PvP scenario, PvE sure, no1 cares about what buffs you use for PvE, but PvP is very important...
    The only scenario that will have one team without the buff is, if that one team stopped "playing" the hellgate, and started camping in the middle for another group to enter, instead of progressing towards the hellgate boss. The goal is to have the "buff" mechanic as a time safer for everyone involved.
    Proud owner of the T8 Offhand book Rosalia's Diary. Feel free to pm me once you have your own item named in Albion.
  • Rosalia wrote:

    HypeRNT wrote:

    Kostan wrote:

    HypeRNT wrote:

    just wondering whose idea was it to give u a buff after killing a boss while saying something along the lines of " we dont want PvE mobs effecting PvP, so this change will be much better"
    Not working as intended during test.You zone in with the buff, mini bosses to maintain it.

    Empty HG? Faster now due to buff.
    PvP? Both teams should have it depending on scenario.
    "depending on scenario" there shouldn't be a scenario in a hell gate where 1 team has a buff that helps your PvP and the other does not... thats my whole point... I dont want to ever have a conversation about, well sorry boys, we were better but depending on scenario they had a buff that rekt us.The whole argument was that mobs or anything else should not have influence over PvP.... This literally is the exact opposite of desired goal... Now im basing this on your words and the stream, even with it not working as intended, no buff should be in hell gates that can increase your chances of winning in a PvP scenario, PvE sure, no1 cares about what buffs you use for PvE, but PvP is very important...
    The only scenario that will have one team without the buff is, if that one team stopped "playing" the hellgate, and started camping in the middle for another group to enter, instead of progressing towards the hellgate boss. The goal is to have the "buff" mechanic as a time safer for everyone involved.
    So both teams are PvE for buff.. They just miss each other, and 1 team gets the last buff. There is no point in which 1 team could have the buff longer?
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  • Duration of the buff is the duration you have to go for another miniboss, also since there are only 5 minibosses, you will run into another group pretty quickly/knowing where they have been.
    The goal is to make sure, that as long as you play the hellgate and do stuff, you will have the buff. It is just to avoid afking and waiting to confirm the other party.
    Proud owner of the T8 Offhand book Rosalia's Diary. Feel free to pm me once you have your own item named in Albion.
  • This buff is a silly solution to a problem caused by their own design.

    You don't need this buff is there is a HG counter. No one will wait to clear if they are alone, and they won't get caught with their pants down when a team zones in. Problem solved, no buff involved. Sometimes pvp fights drag out, and teams kite. Good luck when your buff falls off mid fight.

    Can someone tell us what the new drops look like? With the removal of resource drops are gates even worth doing anymore?
  • Rosalia wrote:

    HypeRNT wrote:

    Kostan wrote:

    HypeRNT wrote:

    just wondering whose idea was it to give u a buff after killing a boss while saying something along the lines of " we dont want PvE mobs effecting PvP, so this change will be much better"
    Not working as intended during test.You zone in with the buff, mini bosses to maintain it.

    Empty HG? Faster now due to buff.
    PvP? Both teams should have it depending on scenario.
    "depending on scenario" there shouldn't be a scenario in a hell gate where 1 team has a buff that helps your PvP and the other does not... thats my whole point... I dont want to ever have a conversation about, well sorry boys, we were better but depending on scenario they had a buff that rekt us.The whole argument was that mobs or anything else should not have influence over PvP.... This literally is the exact opposite of desired goal... Now im basing this on your words and the stream, even with it not working as intended, no buff should be in hell gates that can increase your chances of winning in a PvP scenario, PvE sure, no1 cares about what buffs you use for PvE, but PvP is very important...
    The only scenario that will have one team without the buff is, if that one team stopped "playing" the hellgate, and started camping in the middle for another group to enter, instead of progressing towards the hellgate boss. The goal is to have the "buff" mechanic as a time safer for everyone involved.
    Once again all i hear is another mechanic that will cause issues for no reason. There are tons of reasons why one team might need to take a break or do mobs slowly where they might not have a buff. Its 100% ridiculous to force people to rush thru a hell gate like a brainless chicken for the sole purpose of maintaining a buff that will help you for some odd reason in PvP... Dont even comprehend how you can even attempt to defend this nonsense.
  • HypeRNT wrote:

    Rosalia wrote:

    HypeRNT wrote:

    Kostan wrote:

    HypeRNT wrote:

    just wondering whose idea was it to give u a buff after killing a boss while saying something along the lines of " we dont want PvE mobs effecting PvP, so this change will be much better"
    Not working as intended during test.You zone in with the buff, mini bosses to maintain it.
    Empty HG? Faster now due to buff.
    PvP? Both teams should have it depending on scenario.
    "depending on scenario" there shouldn't be a scenario in a hell gate where 1 team has a buff that helps your PvP and the other does not... thats my whole point... I dont want to ever have a conversation about, well sorry boys, we were better but depending on scenario they had a buff that rekt us.The whole argument was that mobs or anything else should not have influence over PvP.... This literally is the exact opposite of desired goal... Now im basing this on your words and the stream, even with it not working as intended, no buff should be in hell gates that can increase your chances of winning in a PvP scenario, PvE sure, no1 cares about what buffs you use for PvE, but PvP is very important...
    The only scenario that will have one team without the buff is, if that one team stopped "playing" the hellgate, and started camping in the middle for another group to enter, instead of progressing towards the hellgate boss. The goal is to have the "buff" mechanic as a time safer for everyone involved.
    Once again all i hear is another mechanic that will cause issues for no reason. There are tons of reasons why one team might need to take a break or do mobs slowly where they might not have a buff. Its 100% ridiculous to force people to rush thru a hell gate like a brainless chicken for the sole purpose of maintaining a buff that will help you for some odd reason in PvP... Dont even comprehend how you can even attempt to defend this nonsense.
    I'm not surprised that you cant comprehend how i can attempt to defend the buff, nothing new to me.
    The buff will last long enough so you are not forced to take any stupid risks/feel rushed. Pretty much you won't even notice during normal hellgate play. It is only a warning that if you go into a hellgate to just kill another party, and have no intention to finish the hellgate, for example entering, hiding all the time until the other team finishes all 5 minibosses and assumes that from now on the hellgate is safe, just to be attacked by a group that was hiding all the time until they engage the boss to have a guaranteed advantage.
    In short, it is not made to interact with the gameplay people want, it is made to prevent booring and bad gameplay/griefing from ruining it.
    Proud owner of the T8 Offhand book Rosalia's Diary. Feel free to pm me once you have your own item named in Albion.
  • Rosalia wrote:

    HypeRNT wrote:

    Rosalia wrote:

    HypeRNT wrote:

    Kostan wrote:

    HypeRNT wrote:

    just wondering whose idea was it to give u a buff after killing a boss while saying something along the lines of " we dont want PvE mobs effecting PvP, so this change will be much better"
    Not working as intended during test.You zone in with the buff, mini bosses to maintain it.Empty HG? Faster now due to buff.
    PvP? Both teams should have it depending on scenario.
    "depending on scenario" there shouldn't be a scenario in a hell gate where 1 team has a buff that helps your PvP and the other does not... thats my whole point... I dont want to ever have a conversation about, well sorry boys, we were better but depending on scenario they had a buff that rekt us.The whole argument was that mobs or anything else should not have influence over PvP.... This literally is the exact opposite of desired goal... Now im basing this on your words and the stream, even with it not working as intended, no buff should be in hell gates that can increase your chances of winning in a PvP scenario, PvE sure, no1 cares about what buffs you use for PvE, but PvP is very important...
    The only scenario that will have one team without the buff is, if that one team stopped "playing" the hellgate, and started camping in the middle for another group to enter, instead of progressing towards the hellgate boss. The goal is to have the "buff" mechanic as a time safer for everyone involved.
    Once again all i hear is another mechanic that will cause issues for no reason. There are tons of reasons why one team might need to take a break or do mobs slowly where they might not have a buff. Its 100% ridiculous to force people to rush thru a hell gate like a brainless chicken for the sole purpose of maintaining a buff that will help you for some odd reason in PvP... Dont even comprehend how you can even attempt to defend this nonsense.
    I'm not surprised that you cant comprehend how i can attempt to defend the buff, nothing new to me.The buff will last long enough so you are not forced to take any stupid risks/feel rushed. Pretty much you won't even notice during normal hellgate play. It is only a warning that if you go into a hellgate to just kill another party, and have no intention to finish the hellgate, for example entering, hiding all the time until the other team finishes all 5 minibosses and assumes that from now on the hellgate is safe, just to be attacked by a group that was hiding all the time until they engage the boss to have a guaranteed advantage.
    In short, it is not made to interact with the gameplay people want, it is made to prevent booring and bad gameplay/griefing from ruining it.
    Just put a players counter. When you enter the HG, you cant leave for the next 4min, so people cant dodge it.
  • Rosalia wrote:

    I'm not surprised that you cant comprehend how i can attempt to defend the buff, nothing new to me.
    I'm not surprised you are defending retarded mechanics again for a problem that can be fixed in a much better way, like you where defending riding simulator in beta 2 telling me that there gonna be mercenary guilds and bs like that transporting low tier mats.

    Remove role players from making decisions about the game #MAKEALBIONGREATAGAIN
  • AcidHC wrote:

    Rosalia wrote:

    I'm not surprised that you cant comprehend how i can attempt to defend the buff, nothing new to me.
    I'm not surprised you are defending retarded mechanics again for a problem that can be fixed in a much better way, like you where defending riding simulator in beta 2 telling me that there gonna be mercenary guilds and bs like that transporting low tier mats.
    Remove role players from making decisions about the game #MAKEALBIONGREATAGAIN
    Instead of insulting, how about explaining and arguments with those fixes that can be done in a much better way? Calling something shit is easy, bringing up the perfect is not.
    Player Count does work, but also gives both teams the order they joined, which enables free farm without any risk for the first team until the counter changes.
    Other than that, i agree that the Player count would be another working solution.

    Also, i was never, and i am still not a fan of the lack of t2 resources in black zones, or even in red already when you are banned from the royal continent. I am most of the times just trying to explain why something was done, so an actual discussion can be done, like i said, calling something shit doesn't get it changed, explaining why it is shit, who is affected by shit, and how to make the shit better, and which consequences the new thing will bring will get something changed. But sadly most negative comments so far have just been: It is shit.
    Proud owner of the T8 Offhand book Rosalia's Diary. Feel free to pm me once you have your own item named in Albion.
  • The reason why the counter wont work is that a huge majority goes into the hellgates for PvP. So Even with enemy numbers shown they would still wait if a PvP encounter opens or Not as long as possible. So we would again have pro teams waiting inside the gate doing nothing and hope for an encounter.
  • Bercilak wrote:

    The reason why the counter wont work is that a huge majority goes into the hellgates for PvP. So Even with enemy numbers shown they would still wait if a PvP encounter opens or Not as long as possible. So we would again have pro teams waiting inside the gate doing nothing and hope for an encounter.
    What's the problem with people waiting for others to enter HG? Thats what we are looking for, PvP.
    The problem with old HG was the mobs and others things that makes the fight unfair.
    With the buffs you create another feature for disadvantage

    I dont see problem with "teams waiting inside the gate doing nothing and hope for an encounter." If the team wants to waste time waiting for the other team, let them!
    The counter is the best option, so no team is going to get caught with their pants down, cause everybody will know there is another party on the HG. and with the counter there is no possible "lets hide, wait the other team to clear all miniboss so they think they are alone, and lets engage when they are doing the final boss" = unfair fight

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Dammit ().

  • Bercilak wrote:

    The reason why the counter wont work is that a huge majority goes into the hellgates for PvP. So Even with enemy numbers shown they would still wait if a PvP encounter opens or Not as long as possible. So we would again have pro teams waiting inside the gate doing nothing and hope for an encounter.
    What the heck are you talking about? Wait inside the gait doing nothing while there is no one else in the HG? Literally no "pro" team would do that, because it would slow down the number of HGs they get per hour.

    Fast teams want to maximize the number that they can run because it is better fame, more loot, and more fights. If you use a counter a "pro" team will clear as fast as they can until another team shows up, then they will find them for the fight.

    You have a counter in GVGs (the tab button). Every other "moba" has a counter. You don't zone into league of legends wondering whether or not another team is there, or maybe its just two dudes with ambush trying to solo roshan for the phat loots.

    And by the way, if you didn't have fame or drops in HGs, no one would do them. People aren't in there ONLY for pvp, they are there because it is a valuable use of their time in order to further progression. If you got rid of those things a huge majority of people who run HGs would stop.

    I watched a little bit of the new HG stream, sure looked to me like mobs were involved in some of those fights.
  • Bercilak wrote:

    The reason why the counter wont work is that a huge majority goes into the hellgates for PvP. So Even with enemy numbers shown they would still wait if a PvP encounter opens or Not as long as possible. So we would again have pro teams waiting inside the gate doing nothing and hope for an encounter.
    Make HG actually worth doing meaning you get something you gonna use in high end GvGs and no pro team will waste their time waiting for some random group to enter they will clear it as fast as possible and go for another one.

    Also like post above me said i don't see the problem in one group waiting for PvP that's what supposed to be the goal of HG, if they are camping gate you enter with bubble and you actually have time to choose where and how you wanna fight.

    Again you trying to fix none issue by introducing something that's gonna be a issue.
  • I think your priorities were off with this change. Hellgates as they were was the only thing I actually WANTED to log on to do. They had PVP, they had amazing PVE benefits, and they had good drops from the boss and if we won the pvp fight we got some loot. Changing the map I can deal with, but I hope it still gives some of the highest PVE gains in the game because having the possibility of a fair PVP fight made the PVE bearable. I can understand why you would remove the loot drops, but you also need to understand that gathering and harvesting is one of the most boring aspects of the game.

    I think we have 3 things we need to work on for launch if everything else stays the same now:
    1) Making PVE more engaging (introducing more expeditions, plus harder versions would be awesome)
    -More difficult open world encounters designed around groups that SCALE exponentially harder if you zerg them
    2) Somehow make gathering more fun, I don't know if you could somehow make this a group activity to encourage socialization at least?
    -Introduce some type of trade route or something that gives you resources when you complete it? Reintroduce the Hellgate rewards here so the gatherers are the ones getting them? The further/more dangerous the route the better the rewards?
    3) Again reduce the size of the black zones (You designed the world around the red zones, then added the black zones, which was fine but it was a very small part of the world. Then you made the black zone 90% of the map and didn't really change the system.) There's a reason majority of the population is in the red zones and below, and reintroducing the zergs showing up on the map was a great and needed step in the right direction.
  • Dammit wrote:

    Bercilak wrote:

    The reason why the counter wont work is that a huge majority goes into the hellgates for PvP. So Even with enemy numbers shown they would still wait if a PvP encounter opens or Not as long as possible. So we would again have pro teams waiting inside the gate doing nothing and hope for an encounter.
    What's the problem with people waiting for others to enter HG? Thats what we are looking for, PvP.The problem with old HG was the mobs and others things that makes the fight unfair.
    With the buffs you create another feature for disadvantage

    I dont see problem with "teams waiting inside the gate doing nothing and hope for an encounter." If the team wants to waste time waiting for the other team, let them!
    The counter is the best option, so no team is going to get caught with their pants down, cause everybody will know there is another party on the HG. and with the counter there is no possible "lets hide, wait the other team to clear all miniboss so they think they are alone, and lets engage when they are doing the final boss" = unfair fight
    A counter could still be added. We are not explicitly against it. But the buff mechanic as it currently is rewards activity in a Hellgate.

    IMPORTANT: Keep in mind that a lot of people have tested this already you may want to give it a try on staging. Especially removing the buff and adding a counter is very easily done.

    We have no hard feelings for one or other solution, but we are talking here about a tested solution already, while I read a lot of negative comments from people who havent played one hellgate.

    Kind regards,
    Stefan
  • AcidHC wrote:

    Bercilak wrote:

    The reason why the counter wont work is that a huge majority goes into the hellgates for PvP. So Even with enemy numbers shown they would still wait if a PvP encounter opens or Not as long as possible. So we would again have pro teams waiting inside the gate doing nothing and hope for an encounter.
    Make HG actually worth doing meaning you get something you gonna use in high end GvGs and no pro team will waste their time waiting for some random group to enter they will clear it as fast as possible and go for another one.
    Also like post above me said i don't see the problem in one group waiting for PvP that's what supposed to be the goal of HG, if they are camping gate you enter with bubble and you actually have time to choose where and how you wanna fight.

    Again you trying to fix none issue by introducing something that's gonna be a issue.
    So what would you put in a hellgate as a reward. Can you write down some numers and loot tables? We are actually trying to make Hellgates extremeley rewarding since they have a huge risk factor of (most of the time) 5 people loosing their gear.

    Kr,
    Stefan
  • Belan wrote:

    Bercilak wrote:

    The reason why the counter wont work is that a huge majority goes into the hellgates for PvP. So Even with enemy numbers shown they would still wait if a PvP encounter opens or Not as long as possible. So we would again have pro teams waiting inside the gate doing nothing and hope for an encounter.
    What the heck are you talking about? Wait inside the gait doing nothing while there is no one else in the HG? Literally no "pro" team would do that, because it would slow down the number of HGs they get per hour.
    Fast teams want to maximize the number that they can run because it is better fame, more loot, and more fights. If you use a counter a "pro" team will clear as fast as they can until another team shows up, then they will find them for the fight.

    Actually most of the teams I know are always looking forward to PVP in Hellgates. Of course they are doing it primareily due to the good rewards inside the Hellgates but it depends on the timers of the whole Hellgates system and waiting for a fight could eventually be Plus EV for quite a few teams.

    No problem if you dont see this as a potential problem, maybe you are right but maybe you are not ;)

    A good point to test the whole system out is on the staging server soon, instead of raging here.

    Kind regards,
    Stefan