The Role of Cleanse and CC

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

  • The Role of Cleanse and CC

    The Role of CC in the Meta
    So we are a fair amount into this test and it's pretty safe to assume the meta has been laid out. Currently we are seeing a mix of curse staffs, clarent blades, crossbows, carrion callers, arcane staffs, fire staffs, bloodletters, and heavy maces.

    The common trend among all these? A lack of CC in the priority of damage. The only real CC weapon being used in this meta is that of the mace, which even then is more used as a purge bot over an applied CC. This seems odd coming from the previous days of polehammer stuns, claymore roots, etc.

    My point being CC has nearly ceased to exist in this game...

    Why CC Isn't Used
    To first examine what is causing the lack of CC I'll first describe the two counters to it.

    1. CC duration (not long enough to be effective)
    2. CC being removed (cleanse)

    Addressing These Two
    1. The CC duration in all honesty is not much of an issue. What I will say is that with tying the CC duration stat to increase with tanky armor we will very rarely see an effective damage dealer while having effective CC. However, this is fine for you can structure 5v5 comps to bring in damage from other roles.

    As for CC resistance abilities they haven't seen much use due to the lack of CC and I have no current opinion on them.
    I would conclude to say CC duration is not the issue.

    2. This leaves the removal of CC to be the underlying reason for its lack of representation. What I mean by the removal of CC is that of cleansing off it's effects. An example being a player is stunned in where he then receives and allied cleanse to negate the stun effect.

    The current cleanses in the game come from
    Arcane W:
    Motivating Cleanse- increase an ally's movement speed by 20% for 5 seconds. Also removes any movement-impairing effect or debuffs from ally's in a close proximity.
    10 second cooldown AOE cleanse with an AOE sprint.

    Nature W:
    Cleanse Heal- Heals a friendly target for 25 per second for 4s. Also removes any movement-impairing effect or debuffs from ally's in a close proximity.
    10 second cooldown AOE cleanse with a heal

    Mercenary Hood:
    Cleanse: removes any movement-impairing effect or debuffs from ally's in a close proximity.
    20 second cooldown AOE cleanse

    Currently there are 3 AOE cleanses in this game on extremely short cooldowns.
    To add to the insult all 3 of these can be used while CC'd. In other words if your entire team of 5 just got stunned any one of these abilites will free the whole team.

    Cleanse vs CC Cooldowns
    As seen above cleanse cooldown is anywhere from 10-20s

    To compare this with the cooldown of CC let's look at some potential weapons

    Hammer Line: STUNS/ROOT/SLEEP
    Tackle: 15 second cooldown
    Grasp of the Undead: 15 second cooldown
    Groundbreaker: 15 second cooldown
    Earth Shatter: 15 second cooldown
    Knockout: 15 second cooldown

    Mace Line: SILENCE/ROOT/STUN
    Root Prison: 30 second cooldown
    Battle Howl: 20 second cooldown
    Silencing strike: 20 second cooldown
    Brute force: 20 second cooldown

    Spear Line: ROOT/STUN
    Rooting Smash: 15 second cooldown
    Spear Throw: 30 second cooldown

    Staff Line: STUN/SLOW
    Stun Run: 15 second cooldown
    Overpower: 15 second cooldown
    Tornado: 30 second cooldown

    Dagger Line: SLEEP/ROOT/STUN
    Disembowel: 30 second cooldown
    Devastating Strike: 20 second cooldown
    Infiltration: 15 second cooldown

    There is not a single CC ability in this game that can be cleansed on cooldown by either a nature or an arcane. This doesn't even account for another team member running cleanse helmet.

    These 3 cleanses in the game are single handedly the death of CC.
    This could also be the reason we see very few holy healers.

    TLDR:
    1. Cleanse is an AOE ability that removes all CC and can even be casted while CC'd.
    2. There are currently 3 of these Cleanses implemented in the game on very strong items.
    3. Cleanse with its 10s CD has a shorter CD then any CC ability in the game, thus nullifying all CC.
    4. Cleanse is a base ability on nature thus making all teams immune to CC with no tradeoff. This may have correlation with the under representation of holy.

    SOLUTION:
    Cleanse cooldown needs to be increased so it is a situational ability similar to a "trinket of WoW". Meaning it will only be used in situations where the player must escape the cc or he/she will die.

    Cleanse should not be useable while CC'd and be an AOE effect.
    Either it is useable while CC'd to save yourself and not the entire team.
    Or it can save the whole team but the member with cleanse muse have smart positioning to avoid the initial CC.

    @Retroman I eagerly await your opinion on this matter and even question how this was implemented in the first place.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by StayFrostzy ().

  • StayFrostzy wrote:

    LemonVillain wrote:

    Implement this:
    • Weapons can no longer cast cleanse while crowd controlled.
    • Mercenary Hood cleanse is no longer AoE.


    Solved
    This is a step in the right direction. However many teams run nature and arcane. With 10 second cooldowns you would still always be immune to CC.
    The CD needs to be more like 25+ seconds
    I guess you better CC the healer then. Also no one runs cleanse on arcane. It replaces the beam slot.
  • Jonathan_Silverblood wrote:

    Almost perfect. Add a bit more cooldown to the Merc hood as well.
    I'm unaware of the cooldown on Merc helm but I'm thinking it should be around 40s

    Chunderson wrote:

    Do mine eyes deceive me? The devs are actually improving the game for a change? Inconceivable!
    CC is a terrible concept to build combat around and anyone who wants more of it is a slackjawed retard who doesn't know any better.
    CC is okay as long as it doesn't completely control the game. It kinda sucks when you have a cooldown that is completely negated any time you try to use it.
    But I get it. We definitely don't want "PolymorphPolymorphPolymorphFearFearFearCycloneCycloneCyclone repeat until dead."
  • Scorphan wrote:

    Dont do it pls !
    I dont want retarded One Shot combot like we have seen before (polehammer combo).

    Current CC are good but they need to add more cleanse on 1 or 2 more items to counter a mendatory Nature or Mercenary hood in gvg composition.
    The fact is if you dont have cleanse atm in your gvg team, you are fucked cuz CC are very strong, that's why they dont need a buff.
    I wouldn't mind if they added more cleanses to the game, but I very much disike that all cleanses are the same. Cleanses on support weapons should be better than cleanses on a hat or some boots.
  • Morgiana wrote:

    OP said cleanse is the problem, but they didn't change anything about these cleanse skill in galahad. These cleanse skills exist last beta, where CC was still dominant. Therefore, I'd say that cleanse isn't the problem here.
    Cleanse is the problem here. If you have a hole in your roof and it isnt' raining, you still have a hole in your roof, and when it rains you notice.
  • Morgiana wrote:

    OP said cleanse is the problem, but they didn't change anything about these cleanse skill in galahad. These cleanse skills exist last beta, where CC was still dominant. Therefore, I'd say that cleanse isn't the problem here.
    What do you think is the problem then? Last beta cc wasnt as good. Tanks didnt have 50% longer duration on em. Now they got stronger and it made everyone build against them.

    Now CC should be a vital part of PvP. And one player should not be able to remove CC every 10 sec. Normaly CC breakers have about 2 min CD. Im Albion that would be too much. My suggestion would be:

    -Remove AOE from merc helmet clense CD to 30 sec.

    -Remove the ability to cast nature/arcane while CC'd. CD to 20 sec. Increase energy cost.

    Also keep in mind that CC abilities usualy cost alot of energy. I CC often cost about 20%-30% of max energy.
    "A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"
    - Shigeru Miyamoto