Clarent Blade.

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    • Clarent Blade.

      Hello,

      I really didn't want to make this thread because I can inb4 people telling me that I'm retarded and wrong but since I really like the weapon I figured i'd do it anyways.


      I was told by multiple people that there is a good chance of a 25% damage nerf to Clarent Blade incoming which will make the weapon COMPLETELY USELESS. The Clarent itself while strong is NOT overpowered, it only looks that way because most people have bad positioning and play poorly. It is only good in a team with an Arcane otherwise the damage is pretty poor (hits for around 400 equal gear tested on a HEALER so on most other classes it will be less damage. I understand that it's AOE but if you look at the class as a whole it has 0 Crowd Control and only medium to weak ish damage in an aoe that's REALLY OBVIOUS and EASY TO DODGE/COUNTERPLAY. It brings legit nothing to the table team wise and nobody will ever look at it again if it ends up being nerfed.

      I know there is a lot of videos/streams of Clarent one shotting multiple people at once but most of those were PRE ARCANE NERF and are all because of bad play/positioning on the opponent's side.

      The game already has low skill ceiling... it takes a lot of coordination to pull off a good clarent arcane combo (to prove my point you can watch any videos where we face the same combo and theirs never seem to do nearly as much as ours (there has to be a reason for this :/ )


      I understand that it may look like I'm BIASED since I play Clarent but I'm looking at it objectively and I really don't think the weapon needs to be nerfed. If you want to nerf something you should look into Heavy Mace instead it's ridiculous.(Also hard counters Clarent just FYI)


      Thanks,

      Mousline.
    • Yeah, no. It's getting nerfed, you cannot have 850 damage in a 6m radius on a 15s CD with no animation delay on a one handed weapon. What other weapon has anything close to this? Only the carrioncaller and guess what, that is also an op tier 1 meta weapon. Just compare it to dual swords, it's superior in every single way.

      You don't even need an arcane beam, just someone spamming armor piercer with omelette, casted from literally off-screen and on multiple targets. Throw in a stalker jacket as a bonus and proceed to solo the other teams backline.
    • The weapon just has to be adjusted in line with the other swords.

      Dual swords does similar damage but with a smaller radius and you don't get a shield.

      So you either reduce damage OR you reduce radius and add a cast time of X.

      You shouldn't get more damage/armor then dual blades and a bigger radius and no cast time.
      Cheerleader for Guild: Virtuous
    • People keep talking about duel swords as being completely inferior in every way. Duel swords does MORE damage. On the order of 15% depending on target.

      A nerf of any double digit percentage will make clarent useless, like Mousline said.

      This game is going to have to decide how it handles item balancing for live. Taking an item that people have spent hundreds of hours pumping masteries and nerfing it to the ground is retarded. There will always be a meta, are you going to continue to cry for nerfs when the new bruiser of the month is in every 5 man? zomg carrion op/mace op/Druid healer op/curse op/fire op.
    • Wadefu schrieb:

      The weapon just has to be adjusted in line with the other swords.

      Dual swords does similar damage but with a smaller radius and you don't get a shield.

      So you either reduce damage OR you reduce radius and add a cast time of X.

      You shouldn't get more damage/armor then dual blades and a bigger radius and no cast time.
      so by your logic carrion caller is balanced compared to great axe? Druid staff is balanced? Bloodletter is balanced? If duel swords didn't have a cast time people would have a choice to make. Harder hitting smaller range e at the expense of defense. That is a justifiable choice. If you need clarent the choice will be to level axes.
    • Belan schrieb:

      so by your logic carrion caller is balanced compared to great axe? Druid staff is balanced? Bloodletter is balanced? If duel swords didn't have a cast time people would have a choice to make. Harder hitting smaller range e at the expense of defense. That is a justifiable choice. If you need clarent the choice will be to level axes.
      The roles of those weapons are more defined. Some of those weapons might have to be adjusted, but atleast the roles are more defined.

      Great Axe has a speed boost and is more AOE orientated then carrion. Carrion has an AOE, but the heal debuff is what makes this weapon.

      Druid staff is a timed heal over other AOE or defensive heal.

      Bloodletter is AOE spike dependent on others in your party versus a single target spike.

      Clarent is literally a better version of dual swords with a shield.
      Cheerleader for Guild: Virtuous
    • It is 15% LESS damage. I keep saying this and people keep ignoring it. How can it be, "literally a better version" when it is less damage. Don't call carrion better just because of its debuff. The real reason is because it's e is ranged. My point is your saying there are trade offs, yet people run those meta artifacts because they are better, or fit the comp better. They aren't logging in saying, "hm should I run great axe today?"

      If you want to start slaughtering meta weapons every month in a game defined by the mastery grind feel free, that'll last 3 months before people quit. Either buff the under performers or balance it with new item releases.
    • Mousline schrieb:

      Hello,

      I really didn't want to make this thread because I can inb4 people telling me that I'm retarded and wrong but since I really like the weapon I figured i'd do it anyways.


      I was told by multiple people that there is a good chance of a 25% damage nerf to Clarent Blade incoming which will make the weapon COMPLETELY USELESS. The Clarent itself while strong is NOT overpowered, it only looks that way because most people have bad positioning and play poorly. It is only good in a team with an Arcane otherwise the damage is pretty poor (hits for around 400 equal gear tested on a HEALER so on most other classes it will be less damage. I understand that it's AOE but if you look at the class as a whole it has 0 Crowd Control and only medium to weak ish damage in an aoe that's REALLY OBVIOUS and EASY TO DODGE/COUNTERPLAY. It brings legit nothing to the table team wise and nobody will ever look at it again if it ends up being nerfed.

      I know there is a lot of videos/streams of Clarent one shotting multiple people at once but most of those were PRE ARCANE NERF and are all because of bad play/positioning on the opponent's side.

      The game already has low skill ceiling... it takes a lot of coordination to pull off a good clarent arcane combo (to prove my point you can watch any videos where we face the same combo and theirs never seem to do nearly as much as ours (there has to be a reason for this :/ )


      I understand that it may look like I'm BIASED since I play Clarent but I'm looking at it objectively and I really don't think the weapon needs to be nerfed. If you want to nerf something you should look into Heavy Mace instead it's ridiculous.(Also hard counters Clarent just FYI)


      Thanks,

      Mousline.
      Sorry fam... time to retire.

      For real tho the most OP part of it is that it is a 1h and that it has 0 animation and gives instant dmg. There needs to be a animation, maybe an aoe range nerf as well. Seeing as how a 1h outranges and out damages a 2h.. makes 0 sense
    • Belan schrieb:

      It is 15% LESS damage.
      I don't get it... You first come in and prove carrion is good because it can debuff and damage at range with less damage.
      And then come back with a retort of looking at clarent/dual blades as a pure stat to stat comparison.

      Clarent doesn't do more "damage" on paper, but its effective damage is a lot higher due to range, animation, ability to tank more damage with a shield.
      Cheerleader for Guild: Virtuous
    • How does it make zero sense? Zomg meatball is 1 hander and massively out dpses the great fire staff (ignore all other data points about cooldown, cast speed, q stacks, cc, etc). Zomg broadsword is a one hander and has zero animation and gives instant damage!
      Jesus I have yet to see a single rational argument other then, "it's in the meta so nerf it."
    • Adding an animation like dual swords would be ok I guess.

      But here is the issue, everything gets nerfed because people are bad and can't counter play.

      We don't get blown up by clarents, when facing the same comp, our opponents do.

      How does League balance? Around the top tier. Not saying their game is perfect, but, if we're going to balance around bad players, we'll never get anywhere.

      How about they make dual swords instant, and then people have a choice to make? The other issue is, as someone said, with how masteries are now, and specialization, people are committing to one weapon, with a LOT of time. Nerfing a weapon with this setup, is bad for the health of the game, people will quit if you nerf all the time they put into a weapon. That is why I think buffing other options is better for the health of the game, and the player base.
      BoM, In our hearts and minds.
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    • Wadefu schrieb:

      Belan schrieb:

      It is 15% LESS damage.
      I don't get it... You first come in and prove carrion is good because it can debuff and damage at range with less damage.And then come back with a retort of looking at clarent/dual blades as a pure stat to stat comparison.

      Clarent doesn't do more "damage" on paper, but its effective damage is a lot higher due to range, animation, ability to tank more damage with a shield.
      I agree, it's effective damage is higher. That is why people use it. Carrions effective damage/utility is higher, that's why people use it. People used duel swords and carving sword last beta because their utility and damage warranted the lack of shields and cast time etc. My point is that nerfing meta weapons will never stop at clarent. If that is the games strategy, it won't last. People invest too much time to log in and find a useless weapon (and corresponding chest of useless gear).

      You should be arguing for buffs to the spear tree, the hammer tree, and the claw tree to make them more viable.
    • Belan schrieb:

      How does it make zero sense? Zomg meatball is 1 hander and massively out dpses the great fire staff (ignore all other data points about cooldown, cast speed, q stacks, cc, etc). Zomg broadsword is a one hander and has zero animation and gives instant damage!
      Jesus I have yet to see a single rational argument other then, "it's in the meta so nerf it."
      Why are bringing in irrelevant topics? Your ball of flame only reaches its max potential when you root someone. Your "meatball" is slow and easier to dodge then a "INSTANT" cast clarent. Broadsword is exactly that SINGLE target INSTANT damage.

      Your an idiot.


      JonahVeil schrieb:

      Adding an animation like dual swords would be ok I guess.
      I agree with this - that this is probably all that needs to be done and/or lower aoe to 5m
      Cheerleader for Guild: Virtuous
    • Wadefu schrieb:

      Belan schrieb:

      How does it make zero sense? Zomg meatball is 1 hander and massively out dpses the great fire staff (ignore all other data points about cooldown, cast speed, q stacks, cc, etc). Zomg broadsword is a one hander and has zero animation and gives instant damage!
      Jesus I have yet to see a single rational argument other then, "it's in the meta so nerf it."
      Why are bringing in irrelevant topics? Your ball of flame only reaches its max potential when you root someone. Your "meatball" is slow and easier to dodge then a "INSTANT" cast clarent. Broadsword is exactly that SINGLE target INSTANT damage.
      Your an idiot.


      JonahVeil schrieb:

      Adding an animation like dual swords would be ok I guess.
      I agree with this - that this is probably all that needs to be done and/or lower aoe to 5m
      I was responding to Hoba a few posts up, and his "reasoning" for needing a nerf. I chose a response that made as much sense as his post. Sorry you missed that, maybe I should have spelled it out.
    • I agree they should buff/tweak weaker weapons to bring them on par with op ones instead of nerfing all the time. Or if they need to adjust an op weapon, instead of going crazy and nerfing it to the ground, they should tweak it a little by little. Either that, or make it so you don't have to specialize that much (that 3rd layer of specialization in the destiny board is the problem). If at launch I spend 100s of hours into a weapon and it get nerfed to the point where it's not considered a viable option, well I might just fkn quit... and I'm sure I'm not the only one that would. If on top of that you spend time and LPs into crafting...

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von BobbyOrr ()

    • It sounds to me like this is a problem with:

      A) The amount mastery increases item power by (It is significant and punishes you in the short-term for committing to something that gets nerfed)

      B) The nerfs in this game are not subtle. They come infrequently and like a sledgehammer. I am not surprised everyone is afraid of nerfs when every aspect of the skill will be cut into pieces like what happened with dual daggers.

      The clarent needs at most 2 of its properties nerfed, no more. SBI would learn a lot from looking at dota 2 patch notes and see how icefrog tweaks popular heroes/items gradually. Then he can properly assess if the skill needs a further small nerf, until it is in a good spot. Instead of nerfing something by 40% and making it useless, why not nerf it by 15% and wait a month to see how it went?
    • Malth schrieb:

      It sounds to me like this is a problem with:

      A) The amount mastery increases item power by (It is significant and punishes you in the short-term for committing to something that gets nerfed)

      B) The nerfs in this game are not subtle. They come infrequently and like a sledgehammer. I am not surprised everyone is afraid of nerfs when every aspect of the skill will be cut into pieces like what happened with dual daggers.

      The clarent needs at most 2 of its properties nerfed, no more. SBI would learn a lot from looking at dota 2 patch notes and see how icefrog tweaks popular heroes/items gradually. Then he can properly assess if the skill needs a further small nerf, until it is in a good spot. Instead of nerfing something by 40% and making it useless, why not nerf it by 15% and wait a month to see how it went?
      I mean this is beta, so nerfs are painful....I agree that a different approach will be necessary to balancing when the game goes live however.

      Also, I agree that changing weapons now with masteries being so influencial is painful and a long process to grind this up - having said that I like the idea of masteries.