extremely quick rising Gold price is a reason to stop trading. Our economy is dying.

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    • Nytefury schrieb:

      Gevlon schrieb:

      Katarina schrieb:

      I am not really concerned about Gold Sellers, because the developers are doing a great job at removing them from the game actually too good of a job I think, and it was only recently I was able to get these douche gold sellers off Ingress the Mobile APP I play I got sick and tired of seeing their chat spamming.
      When is the last time you saw a gold seller spam chat in Albion?
      You don't see them for two reasons:
      • it's beta, less people buy silver just to be wiped
      • the age of cold calls (gold seller spam strangers) is over. A modern goldseller integrates into a guild and sells them constantly. He talks with them over comms, plays with them on an account, from the outside he is just another dude. Except he sells them silver. The GMs only see that he is supporting his friends with gifts. The only way to stop him if he can't make the silver to sell.
      Anyway, I guess this is goodbye (at least for a time being). My post is up, I have nothing more to say. the devs either remove gold speculation and I return, or if they don't, I make a permanent page on my blog sidebar warning my visitors not to play this game.
      I don't have a problem with you expressing your opinion, I also think your points aren't necessarily terrible and certainly feel free to write whatever you see fit. I don't however like the way you have been trying to throw your weight around with your blog (and taking a look at your blog and the amount of games you tell people not to play I would suggest the majority of readers would take it with a dump truck of salt).

      For myself it detracted from your argument. Leave the chest beating at home, make a good point with a solid argument and let it stand for what it is. I have no doubts I am not the only person to feel this way because you can come across like a narcissistic spoilt bully, and for all I know you may very well not be like that.

      Hope you like the next game, if you don't return perhaps some advice for the future, leave out the blog stats and just make the best solid argument you can, you may find more players will be willing to side with you creating a bigger voice, because at the end of the day it isn't just about you.
      I think pulling our weight as customers for something we are "consuming" even if it is as trivial as a game, is meaningful. I myself joined that game that I like so far from what Gevlon posted about it in his blog.
      Many gamers are totally clueless about the economics which is fine for regular games, but open worlds, single shard, virtual economy games are different beasts..
      .
      Gevlon's point is that any possibility of manipulating market behind the scene is just corruption waiting to happen, and it will happen. What is the point of not addressing the issue while it is still possible? He is throwing the only weight he has to get this fixed to protect all of us. I do not see the point to throw what he is doing in his face as chest beating...

    • grisix schrieb:

      Nytefury schrieb:

      Gevlon schrieb:

      Katarina schrieb:

      I am not really concerned about Gold Sellers, because the developers are doing a great job at removing them from the game actually too good of a job I think, and it was only recently I was able to get these douche gold sellers off Ingress the Mobile APP I play I got sick and tired of seeing their chat spamming.
      When is the last time you saw a gold seller spam chat in Albion?
      You don't see them for two reasons:
      • it's beta, less people buy silver just to be wiped
      • the age of cold calls (gold seller spam strangers) is over. A modern goldseller integrates into a guild and sells them constantly. He talks with them over comms, plays with them on an account, from the outside he is just another dude. Except he sells them silver. The GMs only see that he is supporting his friends with gifts. The only way to stop him if he can't make the silver to sell.
      Anyway, I guess this is goodbye (at least for a time being). My post is up, I have nothing more to say. the devs either remove gold speculation and I return, or if they don't, I make a permanent page on my blog sidebar warning my visitors not to play this game.
      I don't have a problem with you expressing your opinion, I also think your points aren't necessarily terrible and certainly feel free to write whatever you see fit. I don't however like the way you have been trying to throw your weight around with your blog (and taking a look at your blog and the amount of games you tell people not to play I would suggest the majority of readers would take it with a dump truck of salt).
      For myself it detracted from your argument. Leave the chest beating at home, make a good point with a solid argument and let it stand for what it is. I have no doubts I am not the only person to feel this way because you can come across like a narcissistic spoilt bully, and for all I know you may very well not be like that.

      Hope you like the next game, if you don't return perhaps some advice for the future, leave out the blog stats and just make the best solid argument you can, you may find more players will be willing to side with you creating a bigger voice, because at the end of the day it isn't just about you.
      I think pulling our weight as customers for something we are "consuming" even if it is as trivial as a game, is meaningful. I myself joined that game that I like so far from what Gevlon posted about it in his blog.Many gamers are totally clueless about the economics which is fine for regular games, but open worlds, single shard, virtual economy games are different beasts..
      .
      Gevlon's point is that any possibility of manipulating market behind the scene is just corruption waiting to happen, and it will happen. What is the point of not addressing the issue while it is still possible? He is throwing the only weight he has to get this fixed to protect all of us. I do not see the point to throw what he is doing in his face as chest beating...
      I lost all respect for Gevlon and grisix (who seems to be just another one of Gevlon's accounts) after this whole made up blog statistics and childish tantrums being thrown around...

      Before Gevlon appeared to be some dood who had some decent "economics/finance" related ideas, but didnt really understand the concepts well enough - but at least he was trying to, and at the same time he was trying to help/inform the community.

      With the blog and all this drama shit throw in - he appears to be just another corrupted pathological lier trying to "create fake news" and sway people's opinions in his favor.

      How's this for a conspiracy theory (pick one or all):
      a) the "blog traffic chart" you provided is fake (photoshopped, stolen, w/e)
      b) the blog traffic chart is real - but filled with fake data - i.e. you used "bots" from a botnet to generate traffic to make your blog look more legit (and perhaps to steal some AD revenue which you did not "authenticly" generate).
      c) chart is real, and people who visited are real (not bots), but are uneducated and dilusional, as that would really be the only type that such blog would attract. They are not able to rationalize and think things through - so they have to turn to you in search of drama and satisfaction. Kind of like a bunch of rednecks in at a trailer park enjoying a "Jerry Springer" TV show on days on end.

      Sorry for being so harsh - but as I've mentioned I've lost all respect for you and everything you post....

      As they say in Eve - can I have your stuff? And plz biomass yourself on your way out!

      Kthnxbai
      DarthMagus - T8 Stone;

      T6 dagger+leather; T5 curse; T5 all armors

    • Zotar schrieb:

      Jonathan_Silverblood schrieb:

      More people killing stuff in-game to create more silver = silver is worth less. Gold will go up.
      More people needing gold for premium and no one buying new gold = gold is worth more, Gold will go up.

      Only case where it goes down, is when they game is about to die out (= less people playing to generate silver, less people wanting to buy gold for premium).
      There are drivers in the other direction, where there is an increase in silver demand. For example, if in a future update, a new Craftable Cloak of Super Awesomeness becomes available, large enough people might cash out gold to buy it (on the market).
      Any sort of silver sink (like repair costs) drives silver demand. Large PVP battles resulting in lots of equipment repair and replacement could have a short-term negative impact on the gold price.
      They could, in theory. In practice, the impact it has appears to be limited, as the gold fluctuation in a downtrend appears to be very minimal.

    • I'm pretty sure that the devs never meant for gold trading to be the way it is.

      Cash buys gold. Gold buys premium. To cater to players who do no want to spend RL cash silver buys gold, to buy premium.

      Nothing wrong with that model except that trading gold is ridiculously profitable.

      Simple solution is that only gold bought with cash can be traded. Gold bought with silver is locked to account and only usable for premium.

      Problem solved

      @Korn .... is there any reason at all why you wouldn't do this??

    • Midgard schrieb:

      I'm pretty sure that the devs never meant for gold trading to be the way it is.

      Cash buys gold. Gold buys premium. To cater to players who do no want to spend RL cash silver buys gold, to buy premium.

      Nothing wrong with that model except that trading gold is ridiculously profitable.

      Simple solution is that only gold bought with cash can be traded. Gold bought with silver is locked to account and only usable for premium.

      Problem solved

      @Korn .... is there any reason at all why you wouldn't do this??
      Seeing as SI took the Eve PLEX system as inspiration, and PLEX speculation is an accepted part of Eve, I'm pretty sure that gold trading is exactly what SI thought it would be.

      Other people making 'money' from gold trading does not prevent anyone else from playing the game in the ordinary way. And as gold trading is equally available to all, I cannot see that anyone has any grounds for complaint.

    • Taurean schrieb:

      Seeing as SI took the Eve PLEX system as inspiration, and PLEX speculation is an accepted part of Eve, I'm pretty sure that gold trading is exactly what SI thought it would be.
      Other people making 'money' from gold trading does not prevent anyone else from playing the game in the ordinary way. And as gold trading is equally available to all, I cannot see that anyone has any grounds for complaint.
      which begs the question why. Why would you make the most profitable part of the game something that requires no gameplay at all. Unless SI have a hidden motive.

    • Midgard schrieb:

      I'm pretty sure that the devs never meant for gold trading to be the way it is.

      Cash buys gold. Gold buys premium. To cater to players who do no want to spend RL cash silver buys gold, to buy premium.

      Nothing wrong with that model except that trading gold is ridiculously profitable.

      Simple solution is that only gold bought with cash can be traded. Gold bought with silver is locked to account and only usable for premium.
      Locking gold purchased with silver would reduce the liquidity of the market by significantly reducing the amount of gold available to buy, and reducing demand (as people would only buy enough to pay for upcoming months - any gold beyond what you need is useless and has no value unless you plan on playing for a very long time).

      What is needed is to ensure that new players know about the market and are encouraged to participate. The more players in the market, the higher the liquidity. It will mean fewer huge price swings -- if someone buys 100,000 gold, there should be enough supply to fill the order at a relatively consistent price.

      Some controls on the market could be useful (such as mechanisms to put a floor/ceiling on the price -- but with a *lot* of room between them).

      A generally increasing gold price isn't really a problem if people get used to putting converting their silver into gold. This is a hedge against inflation of silver. Generally over time, you can expect the price to rise as the large amount of gold in the founders packs gets used up. After 6 months, the gold supply will be limited to people that invested early trying to get as much money as they can and to those that buy gold with real dollars when they see a price high enough to make it worth their while.

      One thing that could counter this would be if there were somewhere else to invest gold. Perhaps they could invent a stock market where players could set up corporations that sold stock -- players would get investment from other players and in return would pay back those players with a percentage of their earnings in battle or crafting. Those shares could be sold on a stock market (although it would be hard to prevent serious market manipulation). Or corporations could buy properties and pay back their investors through crafting taxes (for example, the Thetford Iron Works could own a metal refinery, or even a chain of them, and you could buy shares in that TIW that would pay you profits based on your investment and income from the refineries -- these could be Real Estate Investment Trusts). They could even have "annual" (monthly) meetings to vote on a Board of Directors/Chairman/President/etc).

      EDIT: Once you have REITs, you will also need Advertising Companies, Human Resources Consultants, Management Consultants, Business Service Companies, Payroll Management Companies, etc. The meta possibilities are endless.

      EDIT: Mercenary Companies -- you sign up with a Mercenary Company; people who need a group member can order one from the Mercenary Company which would send the offer to any members of that Company who are online.

      EDIT: Mutual Funds that invest in several different operations to reduce risk. Insurance companies that will sell armor insurance. If you get PKed, you can get your armor replaced (your premiums could be based on how often you get PKed). (Re-Insurance Companies that provide insurance to Insurance Companies to protect against times when they have huge payouts due to zergs. ("Royal Thetford Assurance Corp", "Fort Sterling Re").

      Corporations could be a way for soloers to work together without the social aspects of a guild.

      EDIT: Another thing that could help liquidity in the gold market would be a website where you could buy/sell gold (to and from silver) without logging into the game client, allowing people to participate throughout the day when they are not actually playing the game.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 9 mal editiert, zuletzt von Zotar ()

    • Midgard schrieb:

      Taurean schrieb:

      Seeing as SI took the Eve PLEX system as inspiration, and PLEX speculation is an accepted part of Eve, I'm pretty sure that gold trading is exactly what SI thought it would be.
      Other people making 'money' from gold trading does not prevent anyone else from playing the game in the ordinary way. And as gold trading is equally available to all, I cannot see that anyone has any grounds for complaint.
      which begs the question why. Why would you make the most profitable part of the game something that requires no gameplay at all. Unless SI have a hidden motive.
      They don't. We do. Every player who sells or buys gold at whatever the going rate is. That's the point of a sandbox game; the players create the content, knowingly or unknowingly, by their actions.

      SI does not set the silver:gold exchange rate, nor do they cause it to fluctate. If some players profit from the actions or carelessness of other players, more power to them.

    • Taurean schrieb:

      SI does not set the silver:gold exchange rate, nor do they cause it to fluctate. If some players profit from the actions or carelessness of other players, more power to them.
      I agree with this in general. However, it might be worth considering some protective mechanisms for the first few days after release to prevent experienced players from fleecing brand new players while the market is first being set up (new players won't know that 3 silver for every gold isn't a really good deal). I think a 100 silver price floor on gold might be reasonable to prevent monopolization of the gold market in the first hours of the game.

    • Zotar schrieb:

      Taurean schrieb:

      SI does not set the silver:gold exchange rate, nor do they cause it to fluctate. If some players profit from the actions or carelessness of other players, more power to them.
      I agree with this in general. However, it might be worth considering some protective mechanisms for the first few days after release to prevent experienced players from fleecing brand new players while the market is first being set up (new players won't know that 3 silver for every gold isn't a really good deal). I think a 100 silver price floor on gold might be reasonable to prevent monopolization of the gold market in the first hours of the game.
      A reasonable proposal, but one that would cripple guild development.

      Remember that someone has to have that 100 silver per gold, and the reason that gold prices start so low is because people have so little silver in the early game. And many players are selling gold to buy property/islands/whatever, so that artificial 'protection' essentially just denies them progression.

      Also keep in mind that the general public won't be able to start until day three, after the worst gold inflation is over, so there is a certain level of natural protection built into the staggered release.

    • Taurean schrieb:

      A reasonable proposal, but one that would cripple guild development.

      Remember that someone has to have that 100 silver per gold, and the reason that gold prices start so low is because people have so little silver in the early game. And many players are selling gold to buy property/islands/whatever, so that artificial 'protection' essentially just denies them progression.

      Also keep in mind that the general public won't be able to start until day three, after the worst gold inflation is over, so there is a certain level of natural protection built into the staggered release.
      It also means that the general public is locked out of the opportunity to buy gold at super-low prices and sell it a week later at 100-1. The founders (and especially legendary ones) already get a head start on the game by an early start -- this gives at least some of them a bit too much of one. With the current system, it is likely that some players will have enugh gold to never need to pay for premium again before Day 2.

      With respect to progression, it wouldn't deny anyone progression, but it could slow it (we are talking hours here), but everyone would be in the same boat. If you can't sell your gold for the minimum 100 silver/gold I suggested at 10am the first day, you will likely be able to unload it by the afternoon or certainly the next morning. Anyone buying gold at 100 silver per will likely still end up with a healthy profit within days.

    • What about some way for gold to be invested that has risk. What if guilds wew able to be invested in publicly. So each guild is on a sortable list. It shows how much they are worth and lists their focus to help you decide if you want to invest. The guild sets a % return for your investment as they grow. If they go down you lose, they go up you gain. It was just a thought. Its more sandbox than the current gold market at least. Feel free to rale me there.

    • Guilds could sell bonds that pay a certain interest once a week for a certain number of weeks at which point they would need to buy back the bonds (possibly by issuing new bonds to raise the cash). They could be bought and sold on the market.

      The interest rate would need to be greater than the rate of inflation of gold to make it a worthwhile investment. The need to renew bonds periodically allows the interest rate to vary as inflation does.

    • Another idea to add liquidity to the market, and that would also help the stock/bond market if such was developed:

      Make gold redeemable for real dollars, perhaps in the form of bitcoins.

      For example, gold can be purchased for around 200 per $ in bulk. What if it was redeemable at 1000/$? or even 2000/$. While this would cost the game developers money in the short term, it could make help fuel real-dollar future purchases of gold (since it would be more valuable, and would have a guaranteed minimum value).

      This would have the side benefit of encouraging people to play the game, as they could earn real dollars doing it.

      Guild stocks and bonds would then have actual real-dollar value.

      EDIT: This could add in an element of randomness, if rate was set at a lower rate, such as 600 gold/$ in bitcoins and the bitcoins were purchased but stored in an account in the game, so they could converted back to gold at 550 gold/$, or redeemed for real dollars with a 50% tax (making gold redeemable for 1200/$). Then the price of gold in silver would fluctuate somewhat with the price of bitcoins as people moved their investments between their gold and bitcoin accounts (as the value of bitcoins in $ grows, people's bitcoin accounts would be worth more -- if it falls, they would lose value).

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 9 mal editiert, zuletzt von Zotar ()

    • Zotar schrieb:

      Another idea to add liquidity to the market, and that would also help the stock/bond market if such was developed:

      Make gold redeemable for real dollars, perhaps in the form of bitcoins.

      For example, gold can be purchased for around 200 per $ in bulk. What if it was redeemable at 1000/$? or even 2000/$. While this would cost the game developers money in the short term, it could make help fuel real-dollar future purchases of gold (since it would be more valuable, and would have a guaranteed minimum value).

      This would have the side benefit of encouraging people to play the game, as they could earn real dollars doing it.

      Guild stocks and bonds would then have actual real-dollar value.

      EDIT: This could add in an element of randomness, if rate was set at a lower rate, such as 600 gold/$ in bitcoins and the bitcoins were purchased but stored in an account in the game, so they could converted back to gold at 550 gold/$, or redeemed for real dollars with a 50% tax (making gold redeemable for 1200/$). Then the price of gold in silver would fluctuate somewhat with the price of bitcoins as people moved their investments between their gold and bitcoin accounts (as the value of bitcoins in $ grows, people's bitcoin accounts would be worth more -- if it falls, they would lose value).
      As much a I like bitcoin, this is a game.
      .. and I'd rather it stayed a game.