extremely quick rising Gold price is a reason to stop trading. Our economy is dying.

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    • Risei schrieb:

      isn't the gold price influenced only by demand, and not by silver amount in the world?

      i mean, no matter how much silver currently is in the world, the price for 1 gold would only fluctuate if people are buying(or not buying) it
      You're correct, but that's the problem. Since there's not much use to use silver, once people start to do nothing but accumulate silver and not many much purchases or causing silver sinks, they look to gold. Think of it as a luxury, all other expenses are taken care of, therefore you treat yourself to a luxury, such as a dinner, movie, video game, etc. But in this case most people are buying gold especial since gold has done nothing but gone up.
    • Risei schrieb:

      isn't the gold price influenced only by demand, and not by silver amount in the world?

      i mean, no matter how much silver currently is in the world, the price for 1 gold would only fluctuate if people are buying(or not buying) it
      What you have to look at is not only the value of gold, but the value of silver. People won't want to sell their gold for even 10000 silver each if 10000 silver didn't buy them anything useful.

      The more silver in the world, the less valuable it is. It's the same with real world currency. If the USA suddenly printed trillions of dollars and doubled the US money supply they wouldn't just magically get out of debt and the world be a better place, they would make their currency worth half over night then even lower as investors dump the worthless dollar and the world economy would fall apart.

      In game terms, if the average player can make 50 million silver easily in 30 days then enough gold for 30 days of premium will most likely be at least 50 million silver. If the average player is barely pulling in 1 million, then the price will be closer to that.
    • Cian schrieb:

      Risei schrieb:

      isn't the gold price influenced only by demand, and not by silver amount in the world?

      i mean, no matter how much silver currently is in the world, the price for 1 gold would only fluctuate if people are buying(or not buying) it
      If the USA suddenly printed trillions of dollars and doubled the US money supply they wouldn't just magically get out of debt and the world be a better place, they would make their currency worth half over night then even lower as investors dump the worthless dollar and the world economy would fall apart.
      I am betting this will happen in the near future.
    • Jonathan_Silverblood schrieb:

      I merely think you're extrapolating data too far. Not a single beta so far that I have played (and I've been here a while), has had such significant issues as you describe.
      In fact, I think you're the first one to bother enough to take action, and you're taking action in a rather hostile way. I had respect for you and your data mindset, but the more you type, the more the world appears to revolve around you and that is simply not going work out in the end. Do as you wish, then move on. Either way, I wish you good luck wherever you go, as that is not here anymore.
      The reason why you didn't see significant issues, because goldselling isn't a significant issue in beta. Now probably the speculators are players doing it for challenge. It will change when you can get real money for your silver.

      The reason I'm not f...king around with this is that I got burned badly in EVE Online. I met some horribly corrupted devs who protected literal criminals (who vandalized public property and tried to frame it on me), then they protected a goldseller who ran an underage gambling site despite their own employees publicly protested (this ended when I threatened them with a lawsuit). I saw how bad this can be and I won't waste more time of mine on more corrupted crap.

      You must understand that game devs are not the highest income people, while goldsellers deal with hundreds of thousands of dollars (the vandals wanted to scam out of $150K from the players with devs suggesting players to fall for it). I'm sure that 99% of the SI devs are decent people. But a single bad egg can ruin everything. This gold speculation just asks to be exploited. There are simply way too much money on the table there for someone with questionable moral. If the "feature" stays, someone will use it to get a couple hundred K $. You have to understand the RMT is a billion dollar industry.

      Any game dev who doesn't close down such loopholes is inacceptably negligent or complicit. I won't waste a single minute of my time on such and warn everyone who follows my blog.



      BRiCK schrieb:

      "The price of gold is going too high! The economy is fucked!"

      Said no one ever, until albion online....
      No one said that. We say "gold price changes too fast"
    • What you are seeing now will be what you get at release. Gold rises as players dwindle.

      Want a hot speculation tip? Most of the people in Beta bought the 40 dollar founder pack. Which gives them 30 days premium? 30 days after release gold will sky rocket. Players will stay with the game because they will justify playing it or trying to play it while they have the premium status. Once it comes time to renew premium a lot players will simply log off AO and never return.

      So now you can easily predict spikes in gold. Its a ticking time bomb and it will explode on time every time.
      The True Victor.

      Make Albion Great Again!
    • Gevlon schrieb:

      Jonathan_Silverblood schrieb:

      I merely think you're extrapolating data too far. Not a single beta so far that I have played (and I've been here a while), has had such significant issues as you describe.
      In fact, I think you're the first one to bother enough to take action, and you're taking action in a rather hostile way. I had respect for you and your data mindset, but the more you type, the more the world appears to revolve around you and that is simply not going work out in the end. Do as you wish, then move on. Either way, I wish you good luck wherever you go, as that is not here anymore.
      The reason why you didn't see significant issues, because goldselling isn't a significant issue in beta. Now probably the speculators are players doing it for challenge. It will change when you can get real money for your silver.
      The reason I'm not f...king around with this is that I got burned badly in EVE Online. I met some horribly corrupted devs who protected literal criminals (who vandalized public property and tried to frame it on me), then they protected a goldseller who ran an underage gambling site despite their own employees publicly protested (this ended when I threatened them with a lawsuit). I saw how bad this can be and I won't waste more time of mine on more corrupted crap.

      You must understand that game devs are not the highest income people, while goldsellers deal with hundreds of thousands of dollars (the vandals wanted to scam out of $150K from the players with devs suggesting players to fall for it). I'm sure that 99% of the SI devs are decent people. But a single bad egg can ruin everything. This gold speculation just asks to be exploited. There are simply way too much money on the table there for someone with questionable moral. If the "feature" stays, someone will use it to get a couple hundred K $. You have to understand the RMT is a billion dollar industry.

      Any game dev who doesn't close down such loopholes is inacceptably negligent or complicit. I won't waste a single minute of my time on such and warn everyone who follows my blog.



      BRiCK schrieb:

      "The price of gold is going too high! The economy is fucked!"

      Said no one ever, until albion online....
      No one said that. We say "gold price changes too fast"
      I am not really concerned about Gold Sellers, because the developers are doing a great job at removing them from the game actually too good of a job I think, and it was only recently I was able to get these douche gold sellers off Ingress the Mobile APP I play I got sick and tired of seeing their chat spamming.

      When is the last time you saw a gold seller spam chat in Albion?

      Yes I personally feel, Flipping Silver To Gold Constantly, and back can be an issue especially when a "Large group of friends do this, and I believe Tier 4 Materials have to be crafted up for example to get higher tiers past tier 4, so basically by harvesting a large amount of items or farming silver in game, selling items, even just Farming massively in game and making a bunch of silver then turning a massive amount of it to Gold in one go, then waiting a few months and banking profit of it it IMO can be an issue, but beyond this I don't see a problem with it I actually like the conversion system personally, because it gives an easy way to legally trade gold to silver without going through illegal 3rd parties who of which likely commit fraud, which is the other issue this company should work on is a way to prevent people from using stolen information to purchase gold then quickly flip that into the economy, I am not sure how bad this is with this game but something tells me this is pretty bad.

      But the issue is what about those who use illegally obtained Gold, or rather Gold that was stolen by Fraud and cash it to silver then quickly gets rid of that silver for items, and what about people who throw these things in a Guild Chest for example?

      As for non RMT, there is a new unofficial role called "Banker" its a Real Job in the game that has to do with doing nothing but farming / obtaining silver and flipping it to gold basically to control the entire market, a good size group of people could do this and control the entire economy, in theory this is something I did myself on another game like this before and pretty much dominated the entire market.

      . I think the main focus should be to prevent "Bots from cheating" or gathering items / Hackers, as well as Fraud if this one is a big a issue and that should solve most the problems right there, nothing is perfect when it comes to RMT, but getting rid of illegally obtained stuff from people who use Hacks, or Obtain illegally is a must because this feeds back into the game and then many players get items or currency exchanged between many and its a problem.
    • Oh my god are you people dense!

      Gevlon just posted IN DETAIL how the loophole works and there are people still not getting the concept... I am literally shaking my head right now, how you are unable to understand the problem with non taxed or clipped gold to silver to gold washing and the reality that are gold sellers.

      Forget about beta data and just weight the pros and cons of having a minimal hotfix to the gold market; it would not hurt anyone right now, but the corrupted player, who wants real money out of it. Instead of helping to identify the solution or expressing concerns, most of you guys simply are not able to follow up on the impact of such a system.

      Still waiting for an official statement, Sandbox Team.
    • Roor schrieb:

      Gold sellers will not risk getting accounts banned until release.

      You will see RMT advertisements in chat when the game comes out.
      I thought the game launched for the most part no more wipes?

      Might as well say it launched, and as long as there is chat moderators, and a good active GM team the game will be fine I actually saw a couple of gold spammers quickly got banned.
    • Katarina schrieb:

      Roor schrieb:

      Gold sellers will not risk getting accounts banned until release.

      You will see RMT advertisements in chat when the game comes out.
      I thought the game launched for the most part no more wipes?
      Might as well say it launched, and as long as there is chat moderators, and a good active GM team the game will be fine I actually saw a couple of gold spammers quickly got banned.
      The game is in "final beta". Before the game is released on July 17th all progress will be wiped.
    • Lobram schrieb:

      Katarina schrieb:

      Roor schrieb:

      Gold sellers will not risk getting accounts banned until release.

      You will see RMT advertisements in chat when the game comes out.
      I thought the game launched for the most part no more wipes?Might as well say it launched, and as long as there is chat moderators, and a good active GM team the game will be fine I actually saw a couple of gold spammers quickly got banned.
      The game is in "final beta". Before the game is released on July 17th all progress will be wiped.
      Omg really I thought this was its final wipe?

      Well I guess it gives them times to fix and improve some things before final release then.
    • Katarina schrieb:

      I am not really concerned about Gold Sellers, because the developers are doing a great job at removing them from the game actually too good of a job I think, and it was only recently I was able to get these douche gold sellers off Ingress the Mobile APP I play I got sick and tired of seeing their chat spamming.
      When is the last time you saw a gold seller spam chat in Albion?
      You don't see them for two reasons:
      • it's beta, less people buy silver just to be wiped
      • the age of cold calls (gold seller spam strangers) is over. A modern goldseller integrates into a guild and sells them constantly. He talks with them over comms, plays with them on an account, from the outside he is just another dude. Except he sells them silver. The GMs only see that he is supporting his friends with gifts. The only way to stop him if he can't make the silver to sell.
      Anyway, I guess this is goodbye (at least for a time being). My post is up, I have nothing more to say. the devs either remove gold speculation and I return, or if they don't, I make a permanent page on my blog sidebar warning my visitors not to play this game.
    • Gevlon schrieb:

      Katarina schrieb:

      I am not really concerned about Gold Sellers, because the developers are doing a great job at removing them from the game actually too good of a job I think, and it was only recently I was able to get these douche gold sellers off Ingress the Mobile APP I play I got sick and tired of seeing their chat spamming.
      When is the last time you saw a gold seller spam chat in Albion?
      You don't see them for two reasons:
      • it's beta, less people buy silver just to be wiped
      • the age of cold calls (gold seller spam strangers) is over. A modern goldseller integrates into a guild and sells them constantly. He talks with them over comms, plays with them on an account, from the outside he is just another dude. Except he sells them silver. The GMs only see that he is supporting his friends with gifts. The only way to stop him if he can't make the silver to sell.
      Anyway, I guess this is goodbye (at least for a time being). My post is up, I have nothing more to say. the devs either remove gold speculation and I return, or if they don't, I make a permanent page on my blog sidebar warning my visitors not to play this game.

      I don't have a problem with you expressing your opinion, I also think your points aren't necessarily terrible and certainly feel free to write whatever you see fit. I don't however like the way you have been trying to throw your weight around with your blog (and taking a look at your blog and the amount of games you tell people not to play I would suggest the majority of readers would take it with a dump truck of salt).

      For myself it detracted from your argument. Leave the chest beating at home, make a good point with a solid argument and let it stand for what it is. I have no doubts I am not the only person to feel this way because you can come across like a narcissistic spoilt bully, and for all I know you may very well not be like that.

      Hope you like the next game, if you don't return perhaps some advice for the future, leave out the blog stats and just make the best solid argument you can, you may find more players will be willing to side with you creating a bigger voice, because at the end of the day it isn't just about you.
      Winter Alpha test Character name - TRF
      Summer Alpha test Character name - Nytefury
      CBT - Nytefury
    • Gevlon schrieb:

      Jonathan_Silverblood schrieb:

      I merely think you're extrapolating data too far. Not a single beta so far that I have played (and I've been here a while), has had such significant issues as you describe.
      In fact, I think you're the first one to bother enough to take action, and you're taking action in a rather hostile way. I had respect for you and your data mindset, but the more you type, the more the world appears to revolve around you and that is simply not going work out in the end. Do as you wish, then move on. Either way, I wish you good luck wherever you go, as that is not here anymore.
      The reason why you didn't see significant issues, because goldselling isn't a significant issue in beta. Now probably the speculators are players doing it for challenge. It will change when you can get real money for your silver.
      The reason I'm not f...king around with this is that I got burned badly in EVE Online. I met some horribly corrupted devs who protected literal criminals (who vandalized public property and tried to frame it on me), then they protected a goldseller who ran an underage gambling site despite their own employees publicly protested (this ended when I threatened them with a lawsuit). I saw how bad this can be and I won't waste more time of mine on more corrupted crap.
      So far, I'm with you. I totally agree with that there is an issue, and that you can work around it (partially) by just setting a fee on the feature. But I do not enjoy of the guerilla tactics (although you're free to take whatever actions you want).

      In the end though, unless they put the darned market as colored coins on a distributed public ledger like bitcoin, there's no way we will *ever* have a trustworthy public audit and even *if* they would do that, gold sellers will just find a way to bot the darned thing. My view is that best they can do is either give everyone the same (fair) chance at abusing stuff, or employ the players to report and shutdown harmful activities. The latter is likely more successful in the long run.

      So what would I have the devs do, if I called the shots? Sure, add a 3% fee or so, and then move on. Don't spend *more* time talking, discussing, analyzing, have meetings etc. It costs development resources, which they can better use elsewhere. As long as the game stays as a P2P game, and there is reasonable mechanism to destroy harmful players value with a good degree of certainty that it's not a false positive, then it's *good enough*.
    • Gevlon schrieb:

      Katarina schrieb:

      I am not really concerned about Gold Sellers, because the developers are doing a great job at removing them from the game actually too good of a job I think, and it was only recently I was able to get these douche gold sellers off Ingress the Mobile APP I play I got sick and tired of seeing their chat spamming.
      When is the last time you saw a gold seller spam chat in Albion?
      You don't see them for two reasons:
      • it's beta, less people buy silver just to be wiped
      • the age of cold calls (gold seller spam strangers) is over. A modern goldseller integrates into a guild and sells them constantly. He talks with them over comms, plays with them on an account, from the outside he is just another dude. Except he sells them silver. The GMs only see that he is supporting his friends with gifts. The only way to stop him if he can't make the silver to sell.
      Anyway, I guess this is goodbye (at least for a time being). My post is up, I have nothing more to say. the devs either remove gold speculation and I return, or if they don't, I make a permanent page on my blog sidebar warning my visitors not to play this game.
      There is a story in EvE online about a certain guy that calls himself Gevlon Goblin. He came from WoW and wanted to join CFC and wanted to help them with financial side. They laughed theirs asses off when they heard his proposal so people think (and there is some people from CFC who confirm this) that was the reason he waged financial war against CFC by supporting some small entities that hurt them a bit here a bit there but nothing significant and afterwards when a very strong coalition evicted CFC from theirs home he claimed "his plans" came to be real.

      Seems like someone who has "Listen to me or Revenge" tactics. How shocking someone like that would say "change this in your game or I tell people not to play it". Sure, gold can be abused by both devs and players in this state, but you are saying the same thing happens in here because it happened somewhere else. Its possible, its also possible it wont happen. Imo in Albion devs dont need to influence gold at all as speculators will do that for them. But the problem that it will force people to buy premium with real money because many wont be able to get the silver is real either way. I guess the end might be the same thing as it happened in EvE where people with many alts will survive because they can make plenty of silver but those who just want to play for fun can't make enough in game currency to pay for it. And such players from EvE would tell you "making in game money for a month so I can make more money just to be able to pay the next month" is no fun. The one bonus in Albion is you can play without premium and get silver that way. But once the premium hits 1.5 mil or so as it usually does iirc many of these casual or semi-casual players wont be able to pay for it in the in game currency. And it will be especially very hard to do for a new player who wont be able to gather any valuable resources at the start of his journey.

      Every game has some downsides and in Albion it will be probably the gold market / premium account. It is however also a way for the devs to keep working and making the game better as it will pay for theirs work. For those who love to speculate it will be a huge bonus. We can only wait and see how it will do after release.

      [POE] Infinite
    • Omnio schrieb:

      But once the premium hits 1.5 mil or so as it usually does iirc many of these casual or semi-casual players wont be able to pay for it in the in game currency. And it will be especially very hard to do for a new player who wont be able to gather any valuable resources at the start of his journey.
      On the other hand, when the price of gold gets that high, new players will be able to get off to a quick start with a small real-dollar gold purchase and conversion into silver. As the price rises, more players will spend real dollars to buy gold, pushing the price back down.
    • I am no economist but I think the guy has a valid point. What makes me think this is that I have been here for 3 years, beta 1 was quite long (plenty of time to observe the gild market) and never once has gold tanked. There are no actual ups and downs. There is no risk. As this game is supposedly setup using risk vs reward it seems logical that the economy is inherently broken. If its to be economic pvp there should be risk. How can this be added to the market? That is what I think we should be dicussing. And where is a dev to chime in on this? Just a thought.

      P.S.
      I Could not care less if anyone threatens to quit or post bad pr.....its the forums. Thats how emotional topics work.
    • Raithe schrieb:

      I am no economist but I think the guy has a valid point. What makes me think this is that I have been here for 3 years, beta 1 was quite long (plenty of time to observe the gild market) and never once has gold tanked. There are no actual ups and downs. There is no risk. As this game is supposedly setup using risk vs reward it seems logical that the economy is inherently broken. If its to be economic pvp there should be risk. How can this be added to the market? That is what I think we should be dicussing. And where is a dev to chime in on this? Just a thought.
      A generally-rising gold price should work as a place to park your silver as a hedge against inflation.

      One question will be: are people more likely spend real money on gold in the release game vs the beta?

      EDIT: I think that the market stability might be improved if there was a floor on the price (perhaps 100 silver?). What if the black-market npc were to put a buy order for gold at 100, possibly rising over time or as a (significant, 50-75%) discount on the average sale price. This increase in demand would be countered by mobs in the world dropping gold (at least occasionally).

      A sell order from the npc at a large (50-100%) premium over the average price may help to reduce large price spikes as well.

      I don't think you should be able to buy gold for 1 silver. There is too much danger of brand new players losing any initial gold they have and being annoyed enough to quit when the see the price in the 100s days later.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 4 mal editiert, zuletzt von Zotar ()

    • There's very

      Gevlon schrieb:

      Let me enlighten you: the gold price is maybe affected by market, but it's ultimately in the hands of SI. They can spawn an account, put a zillion silver on it and set up a gold buy order for whatever high price they want, effectively using the "market" as an item shop (everyone who buys silver from gold from the dev alt is buying silver spawned from nowhere from $). Now it's in itself not a tragedy. Everyone sees the price and can respond by buying, not buying or quitting. Item shops are standard these days.
      Why would a dev need to create an account and spawn zilions of silver to influence gold market if the already has zillions of silver?
      Take the gold market off the equation and you still have a dev who can create any amount of any item/resource/corrency he wants.

      So what is really your point here?
      'Cacatio Matutina Est Tamquam Medicina'
      X/