Spears are weak. Make spears great again!

  • Blinkz wrote:

    Dont know what game you guys are currently playing but the spears are really good weapons and the 1h spear with heavy and like the royal helm can have people stun locked for like 4 seconds for your dps to put all aoes down can pretty much insta wipe groups with a well placed stun......
    Really good weapons, insta wipe groups :D Get sober...Your talking about heron spear stun which is okay but thats it. Im talking about the whole line and how certain spells combined worked very well past betas and they dont now. Also some spells are totally useless and need to be replaced or changed for example charged blade.
  • I have tried to use charged blade a few times and there is never a time to use it in PvP... in PvE you can use it but if you are running spirit spear then it doesn't work with it plus the channel takes a while so you are in turn not doing any increased dps. If you are running lunging strike you need to make sure you click again in order to continue auto attacking. I think it may be a bug, because its really the only move that stops auto attacks from happening, I think the charged blade should be removed from the game period. You will never see it in PvP. Nor will you use it in PvE, its a 5+ sec channel for one AA without spirit spear buff on. Makes 0 sense.
  • I have been playing the spear line this whole beta and am almost 100/100 on the base masteries. Ill explain the downsides of the weapon first. I feel like the old spear (previous betas) was much better when it had movespeed on the 4th stack, the new armor-on-4th-stack is very situational and in most cases it is better to let your 3rd stack drop off and get a stack back immediately after than burning the cooldown and mana to go for the 4th stack (unless you are taking heavy damage of course). I agree with everyone else who says charged blade is useless. I have only found success using it in duels and charging for the whole pre-duel timer (never a good time to use it in PvE or PvP really). It is an extremely mana hungry weapon making you useless fairly quickly in long fights. The cripple ability on W is slightly underwhelming because the weapon itself does not provide many movement abilities to catch someone who is moving fast to use it on them (only the 1h spear has a leap, which is a very high mana cost E ability btw and has underwhelming damage).

    Overall, the damage of the spear line is pretty good, especially when you have the spirit spear stacks up. The abilities on the spear seem to use a lot of mana and seem subpar compared to some of the other melee weapons, however they are not the worst. Of the spear line I would say that heron spear is the best because it has a E ability that has hard CC and it is one handed allowing you to use an offhand as well as being an artifact weapon. Non-artifact I would say either the glaive or pike, both are good (glaive better in bigger scale fights, pike better smaller scale id say). I think changing the Q 4th stack to something other than armor would greatly help this weapon and put it in a better place (not that it really needs a buff right now, I believe it is pretty balanced).

    Side notes: When a spear user is purged or CC'ed at max stacks a huge chunk of their DPS is lost because they now need to regain their max stacks which takes a lot of time and mana before they reach their peak DPS again. This is similar to the sword line except that their stacks do not directly affect their auto attack damage and their Q abilities have much higher overall dps than spear Qs (as well as their E abilties because they are on half the cooldown as the spear E abilities in some cases). Other weapons like axes/carrioncaller do not have to worry about getting purged/cced and losing a big chunk of their DPS. Just comparing it to some of the other top tier melee weapons.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Dip ().

  • Dip wrote:

    I have been playing the spear line this whole beta and am almost 100/100 on the base masteries. Ill explain the downsides of the weapon first. I feel like the old spear (previous betas) was much better when it had movespeed on the 4th stack, the new armor-on-4th-stack is very situational and in most cases it is better to let your 3rd stack drop off and get a stack back immediately after than burning the cooldown and mana to go for the 4th stack (unless you are taking heavy damage of course). I agree with everyone else who says charged blade is useless. I have only found success using it in duels and charging for the whole pre-duel timer (never a good time to use it in PvE or PvP really). It is an extremely mana hungry weapon making you useless fairly quickly in long fights. The cripple ability on W is slightly underwhelming because the weapon itself does not provide many movement abilities to catch someone who is moving fast to use it on them (only the 1h spear has a leap, which is a very high mana cost E ability btw and has underwhelming damage).

    Overall, the damage of the spear line is pretty good, especially when you have the spirit spear stacks up. The abilities on the spear seem to use a lot of mana and seem subpar compared to some of the other melee weapons, however they are not the worst. Of the spear line I would say that heron spear is the best because it has a E ability that has hard CC and it is one handed allowing you to use an offhand as well as being an artifact weapon. Non-artifact I would say either the glaive or pike, both are good (glaive better in bigger scale fights, pike better smaller scale id say). I think changing the Q 4th stack to something other than armor would greatly help this weapon and put it in a better place (not that it really needs a buff right now, I believe it is pretty balanced).

    Side notes: When a spear user is purged or CC'ed at max stacks a huge chunk of their DPS is lost because they now need to regain their max stacks which takes a lot of time and mana before they reach their peak DPS again. This is similar to the sword line except that their stacks do not directly affect their auto attack damage and their Q abilities have much higher overall dps than spear Qs (as well as their E abilties because they are on half the cooldown as the spear E abilities in some cases). Other weapons like axes/carrioncaller do not have to worry about getting purged/cced and losing a big chunk of their DPS. Just comparing it to some of the other top tier melee weapons.
    Thank you sir for your good feedback. I agree with you on everything!
  • Experienced Spear Player right here...

    I completely agree with you guys. The one thing that made the spear good and viable was the movement speed used for kiting and chasing. Yet i also understand SI wanting some variety and therefore changing the meta. Still i don't get why pretty much every other weapon based on movement speed was allowed to keep their movespeed abilities. For instance Bow still has his Speed Shot, Staffs still have their Movespeed W skill, and swords are completely based around movement speed...I feel like this Meta Shift was a downright "attack" against the spear line with also ripping apart the key chest for the spears, the junter jacket. I really enjoy the fighting and dealing damage based on Autoattacks in this game and prefer this playstyle above the others and the spears fitted me perfectly... but right now the other melee weapons outscale it by far. Another big issue imo are the individual spells of the different spears... Lets face it... The pikes e is just very weak having almost the same amount of damage as a clarent blade while just hitting one target followed by a very underwhelming root. The glaives e is too situational and could even throw your team off if used badly. In contrast to most of you i think that the normal spears e is the best right now but still not nearly as good as top tier weapons' like clarent blades e. The damage is ok and also the knock up has some good potential against casters... The problem is, that it is kinda hard to land right now... It feels like an eternity until the character starts jumping after pressing the e button while also the jump animation being kinda slow... In addition to that the 4m hitbox is very small... I suggest either increasing the hitbox or making the jump process faster. The heron spear in my opinion is kinda overrated right now... Compared to pole/greathammers e the stun is very weak... In reality it is like a 2 seconds stun with low damage on a 30 seconds cooldown... Of course you could combo it with the royal plate helmets stun but this would make the Damage dealing spear builds much too squishy...(since all passive spells of the spear are based on autoattacks i assume that this weapon was made for that purpose and not for being a CC weapon because of one 2 seconds stun and pretty much not noticeable slows). Last but not least imo Forest of Spears is pretty much the only viable W option, with Cripple only having its place in solo open world ganking farmers etc.

    #givespearmovementspeed
    #adjustspearsespells
    #addmoreviablewoptions
    #removechargedblade
  • I joined the game recently and trained for bows, spears and daggers.. yep, what a choice of weapons eh?!

    anyway, I dropped daggers realizing that thr system limits reasonable advancement beyond two main weapons.

    so regarding the spear, and based on my current limited experience (i just hit t5 and have not yet used any artefact spear), I agree that charged blade is totally worthless. tried it and never got back to it. I am using a pike but the root seems to wear away very quickly and is mostly useless as a move restriction, albeit it is good damage when applied with a 3 stack.
    I often lost DPS by having to restart attacking after using spell. If it is a bug as I read above it needs to be fixed. I did not realize other weapons did not do that...

    What if charged blade would allow a spear attack to make someone "falls" from ox or horse instead of its current buff...
  • Ya, i highly doubt you can make it knock someone off a mount. But charged blade should be removed from the game, maybe make the E from heron spear put on the W for all spears. I have never seen a game with a spear type weapon where you can't throw it. So it makes sense, and then give heron a poison make it slow or gives you lifesteal. As it sits now its really in a bad spot.