Stop Killing Red Zone PVP With Horrible Reputation System

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  • Stop Killing Red Zone PVP With Horrible Reputation System

    Dear Albion Team,

    Once again I come back to the forums to express my dismay at the latest attempt to "fix" what is now a game breaking reputation system.

    The red zone players, the small scale pvpers, the small to mid size guilds, who enjoy the pvp they get in the red zones have gotten the short end of the stick on the latest patch. In an attempt to make the black zone "look" more attractive rather than actually making it more attractive, your current reputation system is breaking one of the most thriving parts of Albion, the Red Zone PVP!

    For guilds like mine, this does not matter as much because we had plans to move to the black zone even before this patch hit. But for the other thousands of players who enjoy red zone pvp and had no plans to leave the red zone, this feels like you are "forcing" people to conform to a play-style that they choose not to play in. Small to mid sized guilds are not going to survive in black zone zerg vs zerg infested waters which is occurring regularly in the black zones. One only needs to see the largest battle section of the kill boards in order to see this.

    What are the biggest issues I see?
    1. Excessive penalties for killing people in the red zones (1,000 rep loss for 1 glorious reputation kill - majority of people running around are glorious)
    2. Banishing players completely from the Royal Lands once they hit dreaded instead of allowing Caerleon to be the hub of the red zone / royal continent
    3. Making it much easier to lose reputation than to gain it back
    4. Not being able to gain reputation back in the black zones once you are banished there except through passive rep gain
    5. Forcing people to a region of the world (black zones) when they do not wish to be there and there is not enough incentive to be there
    Knowledge gained from Yellow Zone Reputation Protest:

    To show how pissed off I was with this reputation patch, my guild and I had a protest to the reputation system by going to the yellow zones and killing everyone we saw. In doing so, we found that the reputation lost in a yellow zone was 1 / 10th the amount of reputation lost in the red zones.

    What took me only 10 minutes in a red zone to lose 5,000 reputation, the yellow zone pvp lasted for over 2 hours in order to lose the other 5,000 reputation before I decided to not kill anymore so that I would not be banished from Caerleon.

    MY SOLUTION / CONCLUSION:

    If you are not willing to remove the reputation system altogether which I believe is the best option for the health of the game, then at least make the red zone less punitive by mirroring the rep loss that is currently in place for the yellow zone.

    Additionally, Stop trying to hurt the red zone in order to make the black zone look better. Make the black zone better and people will come!
    Kind Regards,

    Blackboa / MannyMoments

    Follow my Stream on Twitch---> http://twitch.tv/blackboagaming

    Streaming Albion Online Everyday!

    Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 2 mal editiert, zuletzt von Blackboa ()

  • The one thing keeping big zerg guilds out of the red zone IS the reputation system.
    The red zones have the biggest amount of PvP BECAUSE of the reputation system.
    Last beta you complained that Yellow Zone PvP took the same reputation from you as the Red Zone.
    Now you want the Yellow Zone to take the same reputation as the Red.

    If you make the Red Zone like the Black Zone PvP it will be as dead as the Black Zone.
    You cant expect to PK all day and still stay glorious. Tbh you could do that in the PvP areas around Chest and Raidzones.

    I havnt seen enough of the new Reputation System to know if its balanced enough - but the general direction from a game design perspective makes a lot of sense.
    You can only have good reputation if you dont flag up. BUT you can always deflag, until you get kicked out of the Royal Continent. You gain a ton more reputation by everything when you are in negative rep.
    It should make it pretty easy in the long run to stay above the lock out - as long as you do something besides PKing glorious people all day long.
    Its also a LOT easier to get back to neutral reputation, because you dont get into forced reputation loss by being permaflagged anymore. You also get a lot more reputation while being negative rep.
    It will be harder to be glorious when you flag up occasionally - making everyone participating in flagging stay at a reputation where flagging on them isn´t a big hit anymore.

    What i dont like is being glorious at 10k rep and nothing above that. With the rollout without a reputation reset you get a ton of glorious people running around that wouldnt be glorious if the rep system we have now would have been implemented from beta start. (Including myself)

    Lucifen
  • Blackboa schrieb:

    Dear Albion Team,

    Once again I come back to the forums to express my dismay at the latest attempt to "fix" what is now a game breaking reputation system.

    The red zone players, the small scale pvpers, the small to mid size guilds, who enjoy the pvp they get in the red zones have gotten the short end of the stick on the latest patch. In an attempt to make the black zone "look" more attractive rather than actually making it more attractive, your current reputation system is breaking one of the most thriving parts of Albion, the Red Zone PVP!

    For guilds like mine, this does not matter as much because we had plans to move to the black zone even before this patch hit. But for the other thousands of players who enjoy red zone pvp and had no plans to leave the red zone, this feels like you are "forcing" people to conform to a play-style that they choose not to play in. Small to mid sized guilds are not going to survive in black zone zerg vs zerg infested waters which is occurring regularly in the black zones. One only needs to see the largest battle section of the kill boards in order to see this.

    What are the biggest issues I see?
    1. Excessive penalties for killing people in the red zones (1,000 rep loss for 1 glorious reputation kill - majority of people running around are glorious)
    2. Banishing players completely from the Royal Lands once they hit dreaded instead of allowing Caerleon to be the hub of the red zone / royal continent
    3. Making it much easier to lose reputation than to gain it back
    4. Not being able to gain reputation back in the black zones once you are banished there except through passive rep gain
    5. Forcing people to a region of the world (black zones) when they do not wish to be there and there is not enough incentive to be there
    Knowledge gained from Yellow Zone Reputation Protest:

    To show how pissed off I was with this reputation patch, my guild and I had a protest to the reputation system by going to the yellow zones and killing everyone we saw. In doing so, we found that the reputation lost in a yellow zone was 1 / 10th the amount of reputation lost in the red zones.

    What took me only 10 minutes in a red zone to lose 5,000 reputation, the yellow zone pvp lasted for over 2 hours in order to lose the other 5,000 reputation before I decided to not kill anymore so that I would not be banished from Caerleon.

    MY SOLUTION / CONCLUSION:

    If you are not willing to remove the reputation system altogether which I believe is the best option for the health of the game, then at least make the red zone less punitive by mirroring the rep loss that is currently in place for the yellow zone.

    Additionally, Stop trying to hurt the red zone in order to make the black zone look better. Make the black zone better and people will come
    The problem with your common sense logic and believe me, I whole heartily agree with everything you have posted, is that the developers of this game are Anti-PvP. They think that every type of pvp encounter should be CONSENSUAL. However for some reason they made an open world pvp game with full loot. That is the part that really trips me out. These risk adverse, anti pvp devs, made a full loot pvp game and implement everything they can to prevent and punish pvp. Its actually insanity at its finest.


    Reputation System
    "We will make changes to the reputation system allowing for more PvP to happen in yellow and red zones, while still making sure that the reputation system provides a discouragement to non-consensual PvP, in particular when hunting players as a zerg"



    That quote is taken from the main update page. How can pvp be consensual 100% of the time when you have WORLD PVP WITH FULL ITEM LOOT!? Seriously, Please answer that question. Can you not see the blatant narrative they let slip? They do NOT want pvp in the open world in Albion Online. The narrative is clear. Dont believe me still? Read this response by an anonymous developer who was to scared to post under his real reddit to answer another players questions:

    reddit.com/r/albiononline/comm…ion_system_is_really_bad/

    You will see the anonymous developer accuse the player of being for a peticular style of PvP, one that the developers of this game are clearly against which is in fact....world pvp.

    Then there is the narrative and fear mongering that "black zone guilds will just come zerg red pvp zones" Yea and ISIS is coming to take over America too right? Fear mongering at its finest with no real proof to back it up. Whats funny about this is that other games have what we are trying tomake red zones become as well as black zones. And guess what, black zone guilds do NOT come zerg red zones. Dont believe me? Go check out games like Eve online, Mortal Online, and other full loot games. I love how this whole argument is based on some weird scenario someone made up in their head. But yea we are not in beta or anything and are not able to actually TEST things. We would rather just assume and try to predict the future rather than learning from the past. If black zones are good enough and have the type of pvp black zone guild want, they will NOT want to to go red zones. If red zones attract more pvp because of the changes we propose then guess what....SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE BLACK ZONES.

    Also to anyone coming here saying the reputation system is being revamped, its not, the lock out is still in place and it will still prevent and punish pvp.
    The True Victor.

    Make Albion Great Again!

    Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Roor ()

  • @Bercilak @Korn
    1. -add transferable personal island
    2. -add transferable guild island
    3. -add naked fast travel to all blackzones cities from royal land cities.
    4. -add red dots to minimap from zergs in blackzones(11+ players)
    Conclusion: more guilds would move from yellow to red or red to black, new players wanting to join black zone guilds could without losing all the work they did on their personal islands. How many times do we see ppl advertising to join a guild in a specific town? Why because this game forces you to establish yourself in a specific area without a major inconvenience and penalty for relocating.
  • Im fed up with "hardcore" players complaining all the time and cry about every single change that it will "ruin the game" and "the game will be dead"
    And the only problem you really have is that you dont have enough gatherers/noobs to kill - and if you have enough that you get punished if you do that all day long.

    The black zone is the ONLY place where you get T7+T8, you get more fame for everything, you have tons of rewards just for doing something in the black zone.
    My prediction is not "fear mongering" and its not "crying wolf"
    You know why i dont run around all day with a 20 man group flagged and kill gatherers all day? Because i cant - i would get locked out of the Zone i wanna play in.
    Why do i want to play in the red zone? Because its not a kill on sight like the black zone. Because zerging gets punished. Because you get that sweet oxe full of t6 stone running around unguarded.
    And all of that is only possible because of the rep system.

    If you force the "carebears" to the black zone - they will just stop playing. Look at last beta - what areas died out the fastest? Wasnt it the black zone? Why make everything like the black zone? Why try to force everyone to the Zone where most people quit in?
    How about making the Black zone more competitive - more fought over by different guilds? (i hoped the new black zone layout would help with that)
    Wouldnt a better solution be - to find a way to make it "worth" for smaller guilds/groups to go there?
  • This is hands down the worst patch they have ever done. I was a huge proponent for the rep system, I never thought I would say this but NO rep system would be better than what we have now.

    Might as well put the great wall of Trammel back in if this is the route they are gonna go. Why even put a centralized red zone if you are gonna banish people for doing what the red zone is made for. This patch just shows a complete lack of foresight and honestly leaves me wondering if this game even has a future. How is it possible to be this out-of-touch with the people who continue to stick around for this game.

    What's next, a battlegrounds where you can PVP without risking anything? I wouldn't even be surprised after this disaster of a patch.
  • Lucifen schrieb:

    The one thing keeping big zerg guilds out of the red zone IS the reputation system.
    Nope. A different zerg guild can go there every day and they don't care if they then get banished from either the cities or the continent.

    Lucifen schrieb:

    The red zones have the biggest amount of PvP BECAUSE of the reputation system.
    Nope. They have the most PvP on the Royal Continent because of chests and hell gates.

    Lucifen schrieb:

    If you make the Red Zone like the Black Zone PvP it will be as dead as the Black Zone.
    Probably, but there should be some middle ground. And the punishment system in the red zone should target large zerg groups breaking the king's laws rather than solo and small group players.

    Anyway... I just wanted to thank @Blackboa and his guildmates for livening up the Yellow Zone today. As someone who has actually approached this final beta casually -- more to explore and try a variety of things out rather than conquer -- I hadn't really engaged in much PvP at all. So it was fun to be in a zerg ball and play knock down in the Yellow Zone.

    However, I would like to point out one thing... the "noobs" weren't totally getting squished. When people started figuring out what was going on we got into a pretty big ball ourselves and did some damage back -- I think we wiped them a time or two and it was all pretty good fun. Nobody actually died, after all.

    Anyway... I agree with most of BlackBoa's points here. Something more than the proposed needs to be done about the reputation system and locking people out of cities isn't a great idea. Locking them out of the continent may be worse.
  • Lucifen schrieb:

    Im fed up with "hardcore" players complaining all the time and cry about every single change that it will "ruin the game" and "the game will be dead"
    And the only problem you really have is that you dont have enough gatherers/noobs to kill - and if you have enough that you get punished if you do that all day long.

    The black zone is the ONLY place where you get T7+T8, you get more fame for everything, you have tons of rewards just for doing something in the black zone.
    My prediction is not "fear mongering" and its not "crying wolf"
    You know why i dont run around all day with a 20 man group flagged and kill gatherers all day? Because i cant - i would get locked out of the Zone i wanna play in.
    Why do i want to play in the red zone? Because its not a kill on sight like the black zone. Because zerging gets punished. Because you get that sweet oxe full of t6 stone running around unguarded.
    And all of that is only possible because of the rep system.

    If you force the "carebears" to the black zone - they will just stop playing. Look at last beta - what areas died out the fastest? Wasnt it the black zone? Why make everything like the black zone? Why try to force everyone to the Zone where most people quit in?
    How about making the Black zone more competitive - more fought over by different guilds? (i hoped the new black zone layout would help with that)
    Wouldnt a better solution be - to find a way to make it "worth" for smaller guilds/groups to go there?
    You have the highest concentration of every t7 resources around a single city in Red.
  • With the current state of the game there are 3 options.

    - Play expedition farmville on tablet and never flag
    - Play only for gvg's
    - Zerg up in black zone

    My first experiences in ablion i was actually scared to enter pvp zones and having to try hard to not die to mobs. This was exciting.

    Now its like.. what the fuck do i do... this shit is either too easy or too boring, or a combination of both. Losing interest at an exponential rate tbh.

    Even if i were to post my opinions on how to fix this, i feel it would be too drastic of a change for devs to even consider.

    SHAME
  • 1. The big zerg guilds would still get banished from the trading hubs. What is in your opinion the reason that keeps them out? I mainly saw them when a weekly Boss spawns.
    2. But there are chests and hellgates in the black zones, right? Even daily chests with much better rewards.
    3. I think the same. I dont like that flagging on a glorious group the same size is punished harder than killing solo players as a big group. I really hope there will be an adjustment that allows equal fights so you can finally "claim" a dungeon by flagging instead of everyone just hitting the same mobs. Also something that stops a solo player from pulling and vanishing to pull mobs on groups besides flagging and then getting zerged by everyone else.

    There are several problems with the reputation system and some other systems that can be abused without risk.
    Not being able to kill solo gatherers with glorious reputation all day is not one of them, in my eyes.
  • from a role-playing perspective you could stay inflagged and glorious and play the role of "the royal guard". You try to stop the people who would kill simple gatherers.

    People keep talking about red zones as if you are supposed to always gank people. How about some role play tho. How about since you want to take another person's gear, you have to actually think about what you are doing?
    Remove the following features: Fast Travel and Re-Roll.
    ( If you agree with me, copy my signature to help make this opinion more widespread. )
  • Lucifen schrieb:

    Im fed up with "hardcore" players complaining all the time and cry about every single change that it will "ruin the game" and "the game will be dead"
    And the only problem you really have is that you dont have enough gatherers/noobs to kill - and if you have enough that you get punished if you do that all day long.
    If you want to click rocks all day I hear Runescape is pretty good for that. Just imagine if Runescape kicked people out of the Wilderness for killing too many players, that's essentially what this patch just did.

    Bergstein schrieb:

    Even if i were to post my opinions on how to fix this, i feel it would be too drastic of a change for devs to even consider.
    You should post them, apparently these devs have a hard-on for making drastic changes at the drop of a hat. And we're supposed to be close to release, lul!
  • Ok...

    #1 Remove the Rep system, it does not belong in this game (maybe make it cosmetic)
    #2 Yellow zones T4 max
    #3 Red zones T5-6
    #4 Remove hostile counter in red zone and only show zerg blob
    #5 Mobs execute T5+ Zones
    #6 Make mobs harder to kill
    #7 Equip T5 gear to progress towards T6 and so on...
    #8 Remove fast travel period

    gotta go but basically, make it a difficult game again.
  • Bergstein schrieb:

    Ok...

    #1 Remove the Rep system, it does not belong in this game (maybe make it cosmetic)
    #2 Yellow zones T4 max
    #3 Red zones T5-6
    #4 Remove hostile counter in red zone and only show zerg blob
    #5 Mobs execute T5+ Zones
    #6 Make mobs harder to kill
    #7 Equip T5 gear to progress towards T6 and so on...
    #8 Remove fast travel period

    gotta go but basically, make it a difficult game again.
    So bring back beta 1.
  • also I'm a carebear, my small guild has ganked one gatherer in black zone, and we have gathered plenty in black zones.

    The game as is, is fine. Not sure what you guys are even asking for tho?

    Wait I got an idea, you want to take other people's stuff? Go out in public and grab a woman's purse and run away. I'm sure there is more value in that purse then what you will have in this game.
    Remove the following features: Fast Travel and Re-Roll.
    ( If you agree with me, copy my signature to help make this opinion more widespread. )
  • Gank schrieb:

    Lucifen schrieb:

    You have the highest concentration of every t7 resources around a single city in Red.

    There are NO T7 ressources in these T7 zones - there are only non-harvestable T7 mobs.
    they are mega rare, it's the same for us in the zones we have.
    They are not mega rare - they dont exist at ALL. Or atleast i havnt seen a single t7 ressource OR t7 harvestable-mob, and i run through these zones every day since test server came up.
    In the black zone the rarity increases the "lower" the black zone is. Or the amount on the map increases the higher it is. I also heard something about t7 nodes with 300 ressources in them in black zones - but i havnt seen them yet.

    @Frog
    Every time i voice my opinion about reputation matters i get called a carebear and to play something else if i wanna click rocks all day and stuff like that.
    I enjoy PvP - i like flagging up and killing someone. But i also enjoy gathering and crafting. Friendly interaction with random players. If you only like one aspect of the game and expect the whole game built around what you enjoy then PLEASE
    find a game that relies solely on this one aspect.
    OR
    accept that the aspect you enjoy wouldnt be as fun as it is without the other aspects of this game.

    For exiting meaningful full loot PvP the "loot" has to be worth something. Cant have that without a player driven economy and "carebear" gameplay.
    But i also see that a player driven economy without bind on equip wouldnt work in the long run without full loot pvp and items trashing.
    You cant have one without the other.